Coronavirus Thread

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armeck

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Yet another study shows hydroxychloroquine doesn't work against Covid-19
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/11/health/hydroxychloroquine-doesnt-work-coronavirus/index.html
A new study -- the largest of its kind -- shows that hydroxychloroquine, the drug touted by President Trump, does not work against Covid-19 and could cause heart problems.

The study was published Monday in the Journal of the American Medical Association. It follows a study published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine that also showed the drug doesn't fight the virus.

Even before these reports were published, the US Food and Drug Administration and the National Institutes of Health issued warnings about using the drugs for coronavirus patients.

"The nail has virtually been put in the coffin of hydroxychloroquine," said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious disease expert and longtime adviser to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
 
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Techster

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Yet another study shows hydroxychloroquine doesn't work against Covid-19
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/11/health/hydroxychloroquine-doesnt-work-coronavirus/index.html

This is an interesting study:

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

The numbers aren't large enough to be conclusive, but I think with the abundance of hydroxychloroquine being used the numbers will start being more definitive down the road. Of course, if that study starts ringing true, the affects of the drug won't matter to those that died.
 
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This is an interesting study:

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

The numbers aren't large enough to be conclusive, but I think with the abundance of hydroxychloroquine being used the numbers will start being more definitive down the road. Of course, if that study starts ringing true, the affects of the drug won't matter to those that died.
Interesting that you offer links from two of the most generally biased (towards the left) sources.....CNN and AP. Although AP often does have fair and objective reporting, I wouldn't trust anything at all that comes out of CNN.
 

armeck

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Interesting that you offer links from two of the most generally biased (towards the left) sources.....CNN and AP. Although AP often does have fair and objective reporting, I wouldn't trust anything at all that comes out of CNN.
How about the journal itself, then?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

Question Among patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is there an association between use of hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, and in-hospital mortality?

Findings In a retrospective cohort study of 1438 patients hospitalized in metropolitan New York, compared with treatment with neither drug, the adjusted hazard ratio for in-hospital mortality for treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone was 1.08, for azithromycin alone was 0.56, and for combined hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was 1.35. None of these hazard ratios were statistically significant.

Meaning Among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both was not associated with significantly lower in-hospital mortality.
 

armeck

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So why has it worked for some patients? And why were the health problems not universally encountered in the previous 70+ years that it has been used for malaria, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and other diseases and ailments?
Anecdotally, it looks to have worked for a few people. But when scientific controls are in place, it doesn't appear it was the variable that made a difference. That is why we science this stuff instead of "I heard from a person who knows a nurse who's mom was sick and she got better".
 

Techster

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Interesting that you offer links from two of the most generally biased (towards the left) sources.....CNN and AP. Although AP often does have fair and objective reporting, I wouldn't trust anything at all that comes out of CNN.

My AP article has a direct link to the study. Instead of refusing to look at something because you don't like it, maybe you should keep an open mind and make a judgment for yourself.

Your response is symbolic of the problems America is having. We are letting politicians and pundits dictate our news as opposed to letting us do our own research and forming our own opinions. It's divisive and because most Americans are too lazy to do research and think for themselves, it's just playing into their hands.
 
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Anecdotally, it looks to have worked for a few people. But when scientific controls are in place, it doesn't appear it was the variable that made a difference. That is why we science this stuff instead of "I heard from a person who knows a nurse who's mom was sick and she got better".
What strikes me as odd and totally irrational is that from the very start, in spite of what are obviously only anectodal incidents, instead of pursuing or even having an openness to REAL studies, people, including doctors, IMMEDIATELY declared that it was unsafe, unsound, and ineffective. Why did that obvious bias come into play immediately? I would think that if a certain treatment could even be remotely related to someone's recovery, it would be seriously considered by every doctor, whether a practicing physician or a research doctor. But instead of performing actual studies to determine its efficacy, what studies that have been done at least seem to have been done to disprove or discount its efficacy. That is why "sciencing this stuff" doesn't appear to me to be exercising true science.
 
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My AP article has a direct link to the study. Instead of refusing to look at something because you don't like it, maybe you should keep an open mind and make a judgment for yourself.

Your response is symbolic of the problems America is having. We are letting politicians and pundits dictate our news as opposed to letting us do our own research and forming our own opinions. It's divisive and because most Americans are too lazy to do research and think for themselves, it's just playing into their hands.
I said that AP DOES often do it right. I can't think of a single instance where CNN does.
 

armeck

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My AP article has a direct link to the study. Instead of refusing to look at something because you don't like it, maybe you should keep an open mind and make a judgment for yourself.

Your response is symbolic of the problems America is having. We are letting politicians and pundits dictate our news as opposed to letting us do our own research and forming our own opinions. It's divisive and because most Americans are too lazy to do research and think for themselves, it's just playing into their hands.
And then on the flip side, head over to FoxNews who used to discuss the drug constantly - barely a peep of follow up to let people know that the mircale drug combo they were telling their viewers about every night was in fact, not what they were hoping it would be. That is a huge disservice and leaves people uninformed.
https://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=hydroxychloroquine
 

armeck

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What strikes me as odd and totally irrational is that from the very start, in spite of what are obviously only anectodal incidents, instead of pursuing or even having an openness to REAL studies, people, including doctors, IMMEDIATELY declared that it was unsafe, unsound, and ineffective. Why did that obvious bias come into play immediately? I would think that if a certain treatment could even be remotely related to someone's recovery, it would be seriously considered by every doctor, whether a practicing physician or a research doctor. But instead of performing actual studies to determine its efficacy, what studies that have been done at least seem to have been done to disprove or discount its efficacy. That is why "sciencing this stuff" doesn't appear to me to be exercising true science.
I don't recall docs dismissing it, but more dismissing those who said we should start giving this to everyone immediately. Most had a measured approach, saying we need more clinical trials. Those clinical trials are wrapping up and showing that many were right to go at this slowly.
 

bobongo

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What strikes me as odd and totally irrational is that from the very start, in spite of what are obviously only anectodal incidents, instead of pursuing or even having an openness to REAL studies, people, including doctors, IMMEDIATELY declared that it was unsafe, unsound, and ineffective. Why did that obvious bias come into play immediately? I would think that if a certain treatment could even be remotely related to someone's recovery, it would be seriously considered by every doctor, whether a practicing physician or a research doctor. But instead of performing actual studies to determine its efficacy, what studies that have been done at least seem to have been done to disprove or discount its efficacy. That is why "sciencing this stuff" doesn't appear to me to be exercising true science.

Good grief, where do you get this stuff from? The studies were done to simply study its efficacy. I'm bad enough to talk too much politics, but you bring it into EVERYTHING. For crying out loud, how many studies do you need to get the picture? At least so far, hydroxychloroquine has been shown to be an ineffective and inappropriate treatment for COVID-19. Just because it's effective on some diseases doesn't mean it has the same effect on others. You say you understand this but you don't act like it. Maybe at some point down the road it can be combined with another medication which will ameliorate the negative effect on the heart. But it doesn't seem ready for prime time yet. It's just science, and the science says the stuff is killing more people than it's saving. It is WAY too dangerous to be made widely available for use on COVID-19.
 

armeck

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Good grief, where do you get this stuff from? The studies were done to simply study its efficacy. I'm bad enough to talk too much politics, but you bring it into EVERYTHING. For crying out loud, how many studies do you need to get the picture? At least so far, hydroxychloroquine has been shown to be an ineffective and inappropriate treatment for COVID-19. Just because it's effective on some diseases doesn't mean it has the same effect on others. You say you understand this but you don't act like it. Maybe at some point down the road it can be combined with another medication which will ameliorate the negative effect on the heart. But it doesn't seem ready for prime time yet. It's just science, and the science says the stuff is killing more people than it's saving. It is WAY too dangerous to be made widely available for use on COVID-19.
Additionally, a good experiment disproves the null hypothesis - which in this case would be that hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment. That is not political, it is statistical.
 

bobongo

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Call it whatever you like. He was wrong. The President was right. He didn't need that many.

In a sense he was wrong. But just because he thought there might be more need for respirators than there turned out to be, he was not wrong to try to prepare for the worst. The principle is intact, and is commonly and wisely practiced. "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best". That's exactly what he did.
 

FredJacket

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I don't recall docs dismissing it, but more dismissing those who said we should start giving this to everyone immediately. Most had a measured approach, saying we need more clinical trials. Those clinical trials are wrapping up and showing that many were right to go at this slowly.
So.. I guess we all agree the doctors (medical pros) had it right all along. ...and all this other "noise" (from media, social media, internet forums) is not really all that helpful? Funny how what really matters usually works out.
 
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Additionally, a good experiment disproves the null hypothesis - which in this case would be that hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment. That is not political, it is statistical.
And yet it has been claimed to have been effective in some cases. I take a particular prescription drug that apparently has been shown to be very effective for some, if not most people. It has only been moderately effective for me, and has certainly not produced the expected (based on studies) and desired results for me. But I don't disparage the apparent fact that it does work for others, and I continue to take it because I guess it's better than nothing. I think my approach to that particular drug should be taken by others in regards to hydroxychloroquine. It apparently works in some cases and does not in others, but don't universally disparage its use in others, when it might prove effective. I actually think that most people, including doctors, are open to that, but the press has maligned it to the extent that some refer to it as a deadly drug. That is unacceptable.
 

armeck

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And yet it has been claimed to have been effective in some cases. I take a particular prescription drug that apparently has been shown to be very effective for some, if not most people. It has only been moderately effective for me, and has certainly not produced the expected (based on studies) and desired results for me. But I don't disparage the apparent fact that it does work for others, and I continue to take it because I guess it's better than nothing. I think my approach to that particular drug should be taken by others in regards to hydroxychloroquine. It apparently works in some cases and does not in others, but don't universally disparage its use in others, when it might prove effective. I actually think that most people, including doctors, are open to that, but the press has maligned it to the extent that some refer to it as a deadly drug. That is unacceptable.
First bolded statement: Those claims are what prompted scientific rigor to assess them, data has shown so far to not support the claims.
Second bolded statement: Fauci himself said we should all be cautious about using this drug, UNTIL TRIALS ARE CONDUCTED.
While scientists are suggesting hydroxychloroquine could be the most effective alternative to treat the coronavirus, Fauci cautioned against jumping to any conclusions without thorough research.

Fauci reacted to data collected by the medical platform Sermo that stated 37 percent of 2,171 physicians surveyed who treat COVID-19 patients “felt” hydroxychloroquine to be most effective in treating the virus.

“We don’t operate on how you feel, we operate on what evidence is and data is,” Fauci told “Fox & Friends.”
The left media, as you would call it, was in line with the scientists and doctors urging a cautious, measured approach. FoxNews was blathering nightly about the wonder drug with (at that point) zero scientific proof. Who did Fox have making their case? Ingraham, Oz, D.r Phil (?)!
 

bobongo

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Fauci warns of new coronavirus outbreaks if checkpoints are ignored:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-senate-health-committee-coronavirus

From the article:
"As I have said many times publicly, what we have worked out is a guideline framework for how to open America again,” Fauci said, referencing a set of guidelines the White House has released for states and localities to begin opening their economies. In order to proceed to the first of three stages, states would need to see an uninterrupted decrease in coronavirus cases over a 14-day period.

Fauci warned that prematurely lifting coronavirus restrictions closing schools and businesses and limiting travel would lead to "suffering and death" and "turn the clock back instead of going forward."
 

armeck

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Fauci warns of new coronavirus outbreaks if checkpoints are ignored:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-senate-health-committee-coronavirus

From the article:
"As I have said many times publicly, what we have worked out is a guideline framework for how to open America again,” Fauci said, referencing a set of guidelines the White House has released for states and localities to begin opening their economies. In order to proceed to the first of three stages, states would need to see an uninterrupted decrease in coronavirus cases over a 14-day period.

Fauci warned that prematurely lifting coronavirus restrictions closing schools and businesses and limiting travel would lead to "suffering and death" and "turn the clock back instead of going forward."
How many states have actually hit the criteria for Phase 1 reopening? Maybe 8 - 10? Definitely not GA.
 

Deleted member 2897

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HR 6666 - The COVID-19 TRACE Act.
What a perfect number for that proposed bill LOLOLOL. Welcome to the South Korean Police State. It creates a $100 billion grant program for local organizations to implement the door-to-door program. Sounds fun.

And Dr Fauci testified against today with his continued lunacy with regards to opening back up, insisting on (For example) 2 straight weeks of declining numbers. What if the numbers were already low? What if hospitals are at a small fraction of capacity? What if the elderly and vulnerable are protected and isolated such that cases don’t result in deaths anyway?

I live in a 500,000 person metro area. After all this time, our total infection rate is less than 0.001 of the population. Statewide we are at 0.0017. Our COVID-19 hospital bed utilization right now is at 15%. In my metro area of 500,000 we are still under 10 deaths all-time, and all of those are elderly.

We don’t qualify to end the stay at home order according to Dr. Fauci. Ludicrous.
 
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