Coronavirus Thread

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Uh huh. So nothing about penalties for not cooperating with contact tracing, which was the sole focus of my question. What I figured.

OK, here are a few links describing government officials out of control ---
https://pjmedia.com/culture/victori...open-businesses-during-covid-19-scare-n379393
https://www.westernjournal.com/la-mayor-threatens-cut-power-water-selfish-businesses-refuse-close/
https://offgridsurvival.com/dc-mayo...-leave-your-home-during-coronavirus-outbreak/
https://madworldnews.com/ca-gov-state-lockdown-martial-law/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...est-fine-people-refusing-stay-home-order.html

None of these address contact tracing, but if they are able to get away with doing what is mentioned in those links, you know damn well, they would try anything to exert total government control over the populace.

 

[bobongo]

None of these address contact tracing

Indeed.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Indeed.

So why don't you address what they do address?

 

[bobongo]

So why don't you address what they do address?

Because I'm not interested in being pulled into your deflection and obfuscation about contact tracing, about which you made a charge you could not substantiate.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Because I'm not interested in being pulled into your deflection and obfuscation about contact tracing, about which you made a charge you could not substantiate.

WHATEVA !!!

 

[FredJacket]

That isn't likely to be a concern legally. Those who are contacted will be asked the big question: were you within 6 feet of <whoever> for a period of 15 minutes? If the answer is no, they'll be asked to voluntarily isolate for 14 days; no big stretch in this environment. If the answer is yes, then they'll be required to isolate. Neither of these is a big privacy concern. Unless you want to be an <expletive deleted> about it. Then health officials can require you to isolate and will.

In short, this is a lot like getting stopped while driving and given a test for intoxication.

I'll just repeat something I said regarding this yesterday.... your characterization of how it would work sounds fine (in theory). I think it would/will more likely be a mess in practice.

 

[armeck]

OK, here are a few links describing government officials out of control ---
https://pjmedia.com/culture/victori...open-businesses-during-covid-19-scare-n379393
https://www.westernjournal.com/la-mayor-threatens-cut-power-water-selfish-businesses-refuse-close/
https://offgridsurvival.com/dc-mayo...-leave-your-home-during-coronavirus-outbreak/
https://madworldnews.com/ca-gov-state-lockdown-martial-law/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...est-fine-people-refusing-stay-home-order.html

None of these address contact tracing, but if they are able to get away with doing what is mentioned in those links, you know damn well, they would try anything to exert total government control over the populace.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

slippery slope
You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Looks like the Michigan legislature is getting fed up with their empress. And what was her response to their passing a bill to protect the citizens of Michigan? This is an exact quote from her, after she was asked about the special session convened to stop her shenanigans ---

“I’m not going to sign any bill that takes authority away from me.”

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

All I can tell you is what I have heard. I couldn't find direct reference to that claim online, but the links I posted attest to the very fascist nature of some of our politicians.

 

[armeck]

Looks like the Michigan legislature is getting fed up with their empress. And what was her response to their passing a bill to protect the citizens of Michigan? This is an exact quote from her, after she was asked about the special session convened to stop her shenanigans ---

“I’m not going to sign any bill that takes authority away from me.”

Just as a point of procedure when posting, I always think it is good form to link an article when quoting like this.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Just as a point of procedure when posting, I always think it is good form to link an article when quoting like this.

OK. Give me a minute to find it.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Just as a point of procedure when posting, I always think it is good form to link an article when quoting like this.

OK, this is not the article I originally saw, but it says the exact same thing ---
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/reaga...ll-that-takes-authority-away-from-me-n2567574

 

[armeck]

OK, this is not the article I originally saw, but it says the exact same thing ---
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/reaga...ll-that-takes-authority-away-from-me-n2567574

That's good. I don't trust myself to accurately quote so I always post the article and copy paste the quote, that way nothing gets lost in interpretation.

 

[armeck]

OK, this is not the article I originally saw, but it says the exact same thing ---
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/reaga...ll-that-takes-authority-away-from-me-n2567574

Ok the actual quote, that was very creatively cut short in the snippet, but present in the actual audio:
"I'm not going to sign any bill that takes authority away from me, or any future Governor." - Sounds like a typical balance of powers issue, tale as old as time.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Ok the actual quote, that was very creatively cut short in the snippet, but present in the actual audio:
"I'm not going to sign any bill that takes authority away from me, or any future Governor." - Sounds like a typical balance of powers issue, tale as old as time.

What you consider a balance of powers issue, I see as an overstepping your authority issue. Would you be equally ok with Trump saying he was not going to sign anything Congress gave him that takes away his authority or that of any future President. IIRC, you are one of the ones who have been saying forever that Trump is acting like a dictator, so I doubt you would support his saying that. So why would you support a governor saying it? He could, as Whitmer could, obviously veto any bill he or she doesn't like, but congress or the Michigan legislature still have the final word through the overriding of the veto.

 

[armeck]

What you consider a balance of powers issue, I see as an overstepping your authority issue. Would you be equally ok with Trump saying he was not going to sign anything Congress gave him that takes away his authority or that of any future President. IIRC, you are one of the ones who have been saying forever that Trump is acting like a dictator, so I doubt you would support his saying that. So why would you support a governor saying it? He could, as Whitmer could, obviously veto any bill he or she doesn't like, but congress or the Michigan legislature still have the final word through the overriding of the veto.

I am not sure I've ever called him a dictator, you may just be lumping me in with all the others with differing opinions.

But, yes, this is a balance of powers issue - the legislative thinks she's exerting too much power, she thinks it is sufficient and wants her office (and future, which includes Republicans) to keep the authority. I don't know what I'd say if Trump said it, as that would depend on the topic. Generally, I favor looking at the subject irrespective of the occupant of the office. For example, while I support Bush Jr., I did NOT, like, AT ALL, support the Patriot Act. Because I knew that no matter how well meaning it might have been at the time, I saw the potential for abuse - which I think happened when Obama took over.

You are right, Michigan will take care of it themselves at the election booth. Not really relevant what we think about it.

EDIT: Dang it dude, you baited me into a political discussion.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I am not sure I've ever called him a dictator, you may just be lumping me in with all the others with differing opinions.

But, yes, this is a balance of powers issue - the legislative thinks she's exerting too much power, she thinks it is sufficient and wants her office (and future, which includes Republicans) to keep the authority. I don't know what I'd say if Trump said it, as that would depend on the topic. Generally, I favor looking at the subject irrespective of the occupant of the office. For example, while I support Bush Jr., I did NOT, like, AT ALL, support the Patriot Act. Because I knew that no matter how well meaning it might have been at the time, I saw the potential for abuse - which I think happened when Obama took over.

You are right, Michigan will take care of it themselves at the election booth. Not really relevant what we think about it.

Unless the Michigan legislature decides to impeach her. No idea if that is in the works, but I imagine some are at least talking about it. From what I read earlier (don't have the link now), legislators were really po'd that she released their official and private communication with her to the press. According to what I read, she broke Mighigan law when she did that. Sorry, I am not at my computer now and can't fid the link on my phone.

 

[IEEEWreck]

I have been taking 50mg of zinc (along with Calcium, Vit C, and Vit D3) for at least 15 years, and in all that time, I have probably only had 5, at most, colds, and none of them lasted over 12 hours.

Zinc: The Missing Element in the HCQ/COVID-19 debate
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/zinc_the_missing_element_in_the_hcqcovid19_debate.html

There's a goop level of woo woo in that article. No potential mechanisms, certainly no peer reviewed research, just technical terms built on air.

You see the same stuff selling whatever that "water memory" anti-chemistry stuff is.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

There's a goop level of woo woo in that article. No potential mechanisms, certainly no peer reviewed research, just technical terms built on air.

You see the same stuff selling whatever that "water memory" anti-chemistry stuff is.

There has apparently been sufficient peer-reviewed analysis in the ongoing research and trials in France.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Very interesting change of opinion by WHO ---

https://www.newswars.com/who-flip-flops-now-endorses-swedens-no-lockdown-policy/

Dr. Mike Ryan, Executive Director of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Programme, pointed out that Sweden’s healthcare system has not been overwhelmed and that their government was right to trust their people to self-regulate.
Ryan now says that Sweden’s approach should be a “model” for other countries as they begin to ease lockdowns.
“There are lessons to be learnt by our colleagues in Sweden,” said Ryan.