Coronavirus Thread

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GTNavyNuke

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Here's a very thought=provoking essay by Charles Eisenstein on the societal and personal implications of coronavirus and our response to it. It's long, but well worth the read:

https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/the-coronation/?_page=6


Good thought provoking article.

I hope to die well when I die.

Agree with the part about we don't know the details of this virus. We'll figure it out in due time.

BTW, I really like what the WHO has done; except for their recommendation that alcohol sales be limited. That does not encourage dying well.
 

GT_EE78

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>this won't surprise anyone
Iran parliament: Coronavirus deaths nearly double reported figures
The death toll in Iran from the coronavirus pandemic is likely nearly double the officially reported figures, due to undercounting and because not everyone with breathing problems has been tested for the virus, a parliament report said.
Iranian health officials offered no comment on the report, which represents the highest-level charge yet from within the Islamic Republic’s government of its figures being questionable, something long suspected by international experts.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/iran-parliament-coronavirus-deaths-nearly-double-reported-figures
 

LibertyTurns

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Good thought provoking article.

I hope to die well when I die.

Agree with the part about we don't know the details of this virus. We'll figure it out in due time.

BTW, I really like what the WHO has done; except for their recommendation that alcohol sales be limited. That does not encourage dying well.
Here’s a fairly good summary of what the WHO did & did not do from a slight left perspective. I’m puzzled that you’re content with how they acted at any stage from the early identification through the risk assessment leading to the rapid the spread of the disease worldwide. I’m interested in your perspective.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ganization-blame-pandemic-coronavirus/609820/
 

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The latest on Italy, who is about 10-14 days ahead of us.

31ff70b2e4c60d9743ac6b65258cd585
 

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Wonder how Sweden’s would look? They have kept their country far more open than most and have done fairly well from a health perspective.

They have 45,000 deaths on a US population equivalent. They have more deaths than the rest of the Nordic’s combined. Their daily new cases have shown no sign of slowing yet whatsoever.
 
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They have 45,000 deaths on a US population equivalent. They have more deaths than the rest of the Nordic’s combined. Their daily new cases have shown no sign of slowing yet whatsoever.
Since you are really big (and good) on statistics, I was going to ask you about something I heard tonight that was said by a professor at USC. He said that although Sweden never shut down anything, the death rate there is about the same as that in the US. And he also said that neighboring Norway did shut down everything, and their death rate was higher than Sweden. Do you have any stats that confirm or refute that?
 

RamblinRed

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Norway has 152 deaths and a population of 5.3M
Sweden has 1,333 deaths and a population of 10.23M
So Sweden's death rate is 4.59x that of Norway on a per capita basis.

FWIW, Norway's daily rate has been declining while Sweden's daily rate continues to increase.
 

RamblinRed

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in comparison to the US, Norway's deaths are 1 per every 35,264 residents. US is 1 for every 9,909 residents and Sweden is 1 for every 7,674 residents
So on a per capita basis Sweden has the worst death rate of the three.

FWIW, Italy is 1 death every 2,723 residents. Spain is 1 death for every 2,430 residents, UK is one every 4,855 residents, France is 1 every 3,738 residents and Germany is 1 every 20,488 residents

Here is the link for where that chart came from. Financial Times has alot of great worldwide information on the virus.
https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest
 
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Norway has 152 deaths and a population of 5.3M
Sweden has 1,333 deaths and a population of 10.23M
So Sweden's death rate is 4.59x that of Norway on a per capita basis.

FWIW, Norway's daily rate has been declining while Sweden's daily rate continues to increase.
The USC professor, definitely on Sweden's side, said their death curve is essentially the same as ours. I misstated something he said in my earlier post. He said that the death rate in Norway IS lower than Sweden's, but their total case rate is actually slightly higher than Sweden's (0.13 for Norway; 0.12 for Sweden), where the case rate is the % of cases in the population. Although Sweden's case rate and death rate may increase in the days ahead, the point he was making was that Sweden has carried on the daily lives of its people much the same as it existed before the virus, and it is not substantially different, and perhaps at least marginally better than that of Norway who shut down everything.
 

RamblinRed

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Since you are really big (and good) on statistics, I was going to ask you about something I heard tonight that was said by a professor at USC. He said that although Sweden never shut down anything, the death rate there is about the same as that in the US. And he also said that neighboring Norway did shut down everything, and their death rate was higher than Sweden. Do you have any stats that confirm or refute that?

The USC professor, definitely on Sweden's side, said their death curve is essentially the same as ours. I misstated something he said in my earlier post. He said that the death rate in Norway IS lower than Sweden's, but their total case rate is actually slightly higher than Sweden's (0.13 for Norway; 0.12 for Sweden), where the case rate is the % of cases in the population. Although Sweden's case rate and death rate may increase in the days ahead, the point he was making was that Sweden has carried on the daily lives of its people much the same as it existed before the virus, and it is not substantially different, and perhaps at least marginally better than that of Norway who shut down everything.

The problem with that statement is that the 2 countries are employing very different testing strategies. Norway is testing as many people as it can, Sweden is only testing those showing significant symptoms - 2 very different populations. Norway has tested 24.4 people per 1,000, Sweden has tested 7.37 people per 1,000. So their lower case number is due to differences in testing. If they tested as much as Norway the number of positive tests would change quite a bit.

I will say that another board that i discuss Coronavirus on that has a wide distribution of posters from around the world and the feeling is that Sweden's approach has largely been a failure. Their death rate is high compared to their neighbors and their case rate is only lower due to artificial lack of testing. I actually have Swedish heritage so I have a soft spot for the country, but to say that their plan has been successful is disengenuous.
 

takethepoints

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Yet another article that looks at the stats we are using to get a handle on the actual prevalence of the virus. See:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...reak-out-control-test-positivity-rate/610132/

Well … not what you would call good news. Let's hope that the new "guidelines" are actually adhered to. Then we might have a handle on prevalence and find ways to get back to normal safely.

But do I think this will happen? Nah.
 
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The problem with that statement is that the 2 countries are employing very different testing strategies. Norway is testing as many people as it can, Sweden is only testing those showing significant symptoms - 2 very different populations. Norway has tested 24.4 people per 1,000, Sweden has tested 7.37 people per 1,000. So their lower case number is due to differences in testing. If they tested as much as Norway the number of positive tests would change quite a bit.

I will say that another board that i discuss Coronavirus on that has a wide distribution of posters from around the world and the feeling is that Sweden's approach has largely been a failure. Their death rate is high compared to their neighbors and their case rate is only lower due to artificial lack of testing. I actually have Swedish heritage so I have a soft spot for the country, but to say that their plan has been successful is disengenuous.
As I said, we will learn a lot more in the days to come. I have no dog in that fight, but I do think the current stats are interesting. We shall also learn from South Dakota, one of few states that have not shut down during this crisis.
 

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The problem with that statement is that the 2 countries are employing very different testing strategies. Norway is testing as many people as it can, Sweden is only testing those showing significant symptoms - 2 very different populations. Norway has tested 24.4 people per 1,000, Sweden has tested 7.37 people per 1,000. So their lower case number is due to differences in testing. If they tested as much as Norway the number of positive tests would change quite a bit.

I will say that another board that i discuss Coronavirus on that has a wide distribution of posters from around the world and the feeling is that Sweden's approach has largely been a failure. Their death rate is high compared to their neighbors and their case rate is only lower due to artificial lack of testing. I actually have Swedish heritage so I have a soft spot for the country, but to say that their plan has been successful is disengenuous.

I think Sweden's approach is a failure because they didn’t stick to it. They have implemented social distancing and stay at home orders. But they did so under tremendous pressure well after they should have. It would have been more interesting had they stuck to their guns to see if they would have had a steep trip up...but then a steep trip down. At the end of the day, they will probably be doing the same as everyone else...just much slower.
 

MWBATL

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Wonder how Sweden’s would look? They have kept their country far more open than most and have done fairly well from a health perspective.
Take a look at Taiwan. They never implemented a lockdown and only went with social distancing on April 1st.

Six total deaths thus far.

VERY aggressive contact tracing and quarantining policies. Government issued a cell phone if you tested positive and tracked you to insure you stayed in quarantine.
 

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Take a look at Taiwan. They never implemented a lockdown and only went with social distancing on April 1st.

Six total deaths thus far.

VERY aggressive contact tracing and quarantining policies. Government issued a cell phone if you tested positive and tracked you to insure you stayed in quarantine.

there are a couple countries that do police/military-enforced quarantines, surveillance, physical tracking, and publishing of identities for those who test positive. 99% of countries won’t do that. Taiwan is also an island, which makes it much easier to limit travel. They started inspecting travelers from China LAST YEAR, and shut down travel completely by the first week in February. We likely had 100,000+ cases in all reality before we shut travel down.
 

MWBATL

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LOL @ China. We can pretty much ignore their numbers.


Yet Taiwan never locked down and has the lightest impact of any nation thus far.

Their secret appears to be that they were VERY aggressive early with contact tracing and quarantining. If you tested positive, you were issued a phone by the government so they could monitor your location and insure you stayed quarantined.

Lockdowns are only one solution. Easier to implement short term that the tracing and quarantining approach if it is already out of hand, but much MUCH more damaging economically to those not infected.
 

MWBATL

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there are a couple countries that do police/military-enforced quarantines, surveillance, physical tracking, and publishing of identities for those who test positive. 99% of countries won’t do that. Taiwan is also an island, which makes it much easier to limit travel. They started inspecting travelers from China LAST YEAR, and shut down travel completely by the first week in February. We likely had 100,000+ cases in all reality before we shut travel down.

I'd be curious to see where you get that info. The CNN article I read said they locked down travel from Wuhan only 1-2 days before the US did. They did use temperature screening starting around January 20th.

Fundamentally, Taiwan did not believe China or the WHO. The rest of the world did.
 
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