Film Room Confuse the Offense

[tech_wreck47]

If a QB-WR are on the same page, they'd make that soft cushion coverage pay dearly.

Having played 3 yrs as a WR, I'm quite familiar with routes like this. You do know that QBs are supposed to throw the ball before a WR finishes his route, right? That back-pedalling DB at the top isn't watching the QB - he's watching the hips of the WR (if he's a good DB). A well-timed throw would never be picked there.

You don't need a rocket arm to complete passes. Ask Peyton Manning or Matt Ryan.

of course, we'd never throw it there. B-back dive or QB keeper.

Yes, I played QB and was coached by an ex Hawaii QB. If you go back and watch you will notice the DB is playing the inside of the WR so with a throw across field he’s playing it right, and is playing it in a way to jump the route. You are highly underestimating the distance and time it would take for the ball to get there. But don’t take my word go ask @Ibeeballin someone who has played at the college level and knows more that both of us. I do agree we might be running the ball there though lol.

 

[4shotB]

Sometimes listen to the guys who have played P5 football when they post. They often know what they’re talking about.

Sidewalk, if posting was restricted to those with knowledge in the subject matter, the message boards as we know them would cease to exist.

 

[Ibeeballin]

it's easier than you are making it out to be. And it really involves good timing more than anything else.

The thing about this jumping around pre-snap is that it looks nice but a disciplined offense that quick-snaps it will torch that DLine every single time.

Hell, a well-timed B-back dive play when that DL is jumping around would go for 20+, as there's literally no DL to the right side of the OL at one point. Our OL would blast those guys backwards. It'd like like the ol' GB Packer Toss Sweep.

I don’t like to use the “bc I played I know more than everyone card” so I’ll use other resources to draw a few points home.

1) The “Easy” throw: Here is the dimensions of a College FB Field

Opposite hash, outside the numbers is 30yd throw to outside. There is a reason why this throw is in the NFL combine bc it requires strength, ball velocity, and precision accuracy. This is not an easy throw even in walk thrus

2) Quick snap: The quick snap idea doesn’t account for:
A) CNW doesn’t watch film and know that WF is a “check with me team” gets their play from the sideline

B) That moving presnap equates to be “out of position” or not knowing your assignment. As stated by others, there appear to be a cohesion on that side of the ball that we are not accustomed to seeing.

I can also assure you CNW wouldn’t call this vs. CPJ offense

 

[Techster]

They were able to collapse the pocket with 5 vs. 6. If you can do that then the window dressing does not matter too much. RB should have cleared for the dumpoff, he wasn't doing any good trying to pass protect.

Yup, that was something I said earlier. Underneath was cleared out when the TE went up the seam. Maybe QB audibled to a pass pro that included the RB staying in for extra protection, or the RB and QB were not on the same page.

If you go back and look at the play a little closer, the SS safety looks like he was "spying" into the backfield in case the RB leaked out...but seeing that the RB was in pass pro, he peeled off to help the CB. Of course, he peeled off a little early IMO because the RB could have just delayed then leaked.

Either way, that defense was solid in containing the offense inside the 10 yards to prevent a first down. Even if the RB leaked out, it would have been hard for him to have made up the 10 yards for the first down.

Defensively, just a great set up all around knowing down and distance. Refreshing to see...and makes me optimistic about what CNW can do for GT.

 

[Techster]

I don’t like to use the “bc I played I know more than everyone card” so I’ll use other resources to draw a few points home.

1) The “Easy” throw: Here is the dimensions of a College FB FieldView attachment 3822

Opposite hash, outside the numbers is 30yd throw to outside. There is a reason why this throw is in the NFL combine bc it requires strength, ball velocity, and precision accuracy. This is not an easy throw even in walk thrus

2) Quick snap: The quick snap idea doesn’t account for:
A) CNW doesn’t watch film and know that WF is a “check with me team” gets their play from the sideline

B) That moving presnap equates to be “out of position” or not knowing your assignment. As stated by others, there appear to be a cohesion on that side of the ball that we are not accustomed to seeing.

I can also assure you CNW wouldn’t call this vs. CPJ offense

LOL...that's the same dimension diagram I used to calculate the throwing distance.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

I don’t like to use the “bc I played I know more than everyone card” so I’ll use other resources to draw a few points home.

1) The “Easy” throw: Here is the dimensions of a College FB FieldView attachment 3822

Opposite hash, outside the numbers is 30yd throw to outside. There is a reason why this throw is in the NFL combine bc it requires strength, ball velocity, and precision accuracy. This is not an easy throw even in walk thrus

2) Quick snap: The quick snap idea doesn’t account for:
A) CNW doesn’t watch film and know that WF is a “check with me team” gets their play from the sideline

B) That moving presnap equates to be “out of position” or not knowing your assignment. As stated by others, there appear to be a cohesion on that side of the ball that we are not accustomed to seeing.

I can also assure you CNW wouldn’t call this vs. CPJ offense

I respect your opinion and see your point re:length of throw but maintain that the D play in question would be easily beaten by even a decent QB-WR. You ignore the effect of good timing on that throw, and that a decently-timed throw would work almost every time there.

Could we run this against the UVAs and Pukes on our schedule now and then to success? Likely. Against the Clemsons and mutts? Doubtful. I'm not a big fan of our DL being out of position like that against those types of teams.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

makes me optimistic about what CNW can do for GT.

I'm with you here. Can't wait to see some new, attacking D formations.

 

[jgtengineer]

You are only going to see this kind of movement against check with me teams. So expect it against clemson, UNC, Duke ( for a series after that cutcliffe will have duke running zone triple) and VT. Miami, georgie, UVA and Pitt really don't check at the line that often. Richt has gone to more of a rpo triple offense as we felt hard last year, georgie has moved to a power spread but still very much runs whatever is called with minor checks, uva is similar to georgie as is pitt in the style. Pitt may actually be back to a more prostyle approach next year since the pickett kid is actually decent.

That isn't to say there won't be movement presnap from the backers, even safeties rollign into zones timing wise against the other styles it's just not going to be that crazy.

In our spring game there was very little presnap movement but tons of stuns post snap which lead to Brant having 6 tackles for loss and a sack

 

[Ibeeballin]

I respect your opinion and see your point re:length of throw but maintain that the D play in question would be easily beaten by even a decent QB-WR. You ignore the effect of good timing on that throw, and that a decently-timed throw would work almost every time there.

Could we run this against the UVAs and Pukes on our schedule now and then to success? Likely. Against the Clemsons and mutts? Doubtful. I'm not a big fan of our DL being out of position like that against those types of teams.

Good timing is a product being on the same page. The QB was confused. Initially looked like a man blitz but ultimately was Cov 3. So yes, a play could’ve been made but it would’ve taken a real savvy QB to pull that off

 

[CTJacket]

I am hoping for this kind of communication

I don't know if you listened to the Players Perspective podcast from Monday or not, but this was exactly what Ken Swilling was talking about as a need for the defense.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I respect your opinion and see your point re:length of throw but maintain that the D play in question would be easily beaten by even a decent QB-WR. You ignore the effect of good timing on that throw, and that a decently-timed throw would work almost every time there.

Could we run this against the UVAs and Pukes on our schedule now and then to success? Likely. Against the Clemsons and mutts? Doubtful. I'm not a big fan of our DL being out of position like that against those types of teams.

Well wake is definitely more on the lines of UVA and Duke. You are also talking about an absolutely near perfect throw and timing, just a little bit off and it could easily be a pick 6. It’s a dangerous play regardless. That’s why you see a lot of pick 6 on routes like that.

 

[alentrekin]

Well wake is definitely more on the lines of UVA and Duke. You are also talking about an absolutely near perfect throw and timing, just a little bit off and it could easily be a pick 6. It’s a dangerous play regardless. That’s why you see a lot of pick 6 on routes like that.

Not a lot of plays in the playbook for this down and distance.

It seems like the QB was looking for he easier, shortside comeback route but saw that the safety jumped it and since he is a runner, tucked and ran. Missed the presnap cover 3 read, as ibee said.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Well wake is definitely more on the lines of UVA and Duke. You are also talking about an absolutely near perfect throw and timing, just a little bit off and it could easily be a pick 6. It’s a dangerous play regardless. That’s why you see a lot of pick 6 on routes like that.

The DB backpedaling hard made a pick-6 unlikely. If he tries to make that sort of play, it'll likely go to the house for 6 for the O!

 

[YJMD]

I’m not hating on this play or D call at all. BUT...if this was a play called by Roof, many posters here would be pulling their hair out and screaming about the DB cushions and back pedaling.

Maybe the would be, but that's not a fair description of what the DBs are doing. They didn't backpedal at the snap. They did bail enough to ensure the receiver didn't run past them when they were running their routes, but no one moved past the sticks to where they wouldn't be in position to make a play if the pass was thrown to their guy unless their man kept running downfield. Yeah the initial cushion could be frustrating for some and leaves easy yardage on the bubble screen, but for this down and distance it's a perfectly good coverage scheme.

 

[YJMD]

Guys, there is no defense that shuts down everything an offense can do on the play. If such a defensive scheme existed, no one would ever score a point in college FB. All you can do is cover what seems most likely, try to generate some pressure on the QB, and not be wholly predictable. Otherwise it's your athletes vs. theirs, and sometimes they're going to win either through choosing the right call for the scheme, through execution, or through athleticism. Thing is, the better you do your part, the more likely it becomes that you beat them. As others have pointed out, despite potential flaws in the defensive plan, it was a reasonable choice for the situation, and all players knew and executed their assignments, and it turns out that pressure up front succeeded in keeping the other team from making a play. Woody's scheme isn't going to work 100% of the time, but what we can reasonably ask is for it to work more often.

 

[tech_wreck47]

The DB backpedaling hard made a pick-6 unlikely. If he tries to make that sort of play, it'll likely go to the house for 6 for the O!

Disagree, if you watch he broke pretty decent after the WR planted and made his comeback and was only 3 yards deeper than the WR. On a throw that far 3 yards is not that big of a deal to make up ground on. The DB is playing the inside just like he should. If that would have been on the short side of the field I would agree 100 percent.

 

[Josh H]

Love this discussion. IMO, this is what makes this board better than the others as it is less juvenile humor and more actual football discussion. For someone who never played the game but is an avid fan, I appreciate the knowledge.

 

[Animal02]

But the QB was looking at the sideline for the play the whole time.... an adjustment to what your talking about Could work, but i would quick snap to the QB and have him run it

Exactly. The QB had the opportunity.....and blew it.

 

[alentrekin]

Do any of these check with me offenses ever do fake check with me and quick snap? I haven't seen it.

 

[Animal02]

Do any of these check with me offenses ever do fake check with me and quick snap? I haven't seen it.

If I was a coach and saw that on tape.....with 4 guys lined up in a row, I would have an audible / quick snap ready....the right side of the field was wide open, and with those four lined up like that, 1-2 linemen could have taken them completely out of the play.