Conference Realignment

[yeti92]

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Man, y’all have some serious emotional issues regarding FSU. You guys are crying way harder than FSU is. All FSU is doing is trying to leave a conference that is in a prolonged death spiral. All this stuff like ”they are painting themselves into a corner” or “they will have no home” is just hilarious. If worthless programs like Nebraska, Rutgers, South Carolina, Missouri have homes you don’t think FSU will have one? Come on now. And sure, they may not be able to get out of this garbage conference, but I doubt there is a clause in the GOR that says they have to lick Phillips boots every Saturday like everyone else does. FSU can at least look themselves in the mirror knowing they are trying to make their future better. GT and everyone else is just sitting there dooming their future teams knowing all these school Presidents, AD’s, and coaches will be gone or working on their next career move to the SEC or BIG. All you guys laughing at FSU won’t be laughing when we are in the Sunbelt after the GOR and ACC ends while FSU and others end up in a real conference.

Not even close, Dont know about the rest of the board, but this is some great entertainment. I am enjoying the crap out of it. If we did not have this clown show going on, we would be talking about colors, uniforms and Adidas

 

[ThatGuy]

But, I don't see any way they can stay in the ACC at this point. They may have had a soft 'offer' from the B1G commissioners office if they could get out of the ACC. But that still requires a vote and the mess and costs of getting out the ACC may not make that viable. IMHO, most likely they end up in a worse financial situation, in the Big12, Independent, or taking a much reduced share in the B1G or SEC. While also owing the ACC a ton of money.

Agreed.

You forgot the last part: once they're in a new situation and in a worse financial situation because they paid so much to get out of the ACC, their fans will spend the next 30 years bemoaning the fact that the reason they're having issues is because the ACC was such an "awful" conference and did this to them.

 

[SunBum]

I just don't get it. This reeks of the inmates running the asylum type of situation. Assuming the endgame is SEC or B1G (I can't imagine B12 is the target), is FSU willing to take some kind of financial hit (probably significant - no way they're getting out of jail free) to go and try and make their bones in a conference where it will probably be notably tougher to get into the playoff? If they're as great as they think they are, wouldn't the easier road to the playoff be to win the ACC (which sux so bad in their opinion)? If it's about money, then financially how does the next 10 years in the ACC compare with the financial cost of leaving over the same time-frame? I think they're just so butt-hurt that they're willing to burn the whole thing down, the ACC and themselves if necessary.

 

[TechPhi97]

It isn't anything if both parties don't sign. My point was that the idea of the ACC making an unsigned amendment in secret and hiding it away is preposterous.

Exactly - totally agree.

 

[orientalnc]

I just don't get it. This reeks of the inmates running the asylum type of situation. Assuming the endgame is SEC or B1G (I can't imagine B12 is the target), is FSU willing to take some kind of financial hit (probably significant - no way they're getting out of jail free) to go and try and make their bones in a conference where it will probably be notably tougher to get into the playoff? If they're as great as they think they are, wouldn't the easier road to the playoff be to win the ACC (which sux so bad in their opinion)? If it's about money, then financially how does the next 10 years in the ACC compare with the financial cost of leaving over the same time-frame? I think they're just so butt-hurt that they're willing to burn the whole thing down, the ACC and themselves if necessary.

There are egos involved here, so take that into consideration. FSU may also be looking farther ahead than you as to what the financial impact will be. If they get a B1G invite with the understanding that their share of the of the B1G media distribution will used to buyback FSU's media rights from the ACC, then this might a OK if the lawsuit nets them a reduced exit penalty. They would have a long term home in a P2 conference and eventually get a full B1G share. Of course, the ACC would have to agree that the B1G could buy FSU's media rights on an annual basis. None of this is likely, but it makes for an interesting mental exercise.

 

[CEB]

I just don't get it. This reeks of the inmates running the asylum type of situation. Assuming the endgame is SEC or B1G (I can't imagine B12 is the target), is FSU willing to take some kind of financial hit (probably significant - no way they're getting out of jail free) to go and try and make their bones in a conference where it will probably be notably tougher to get into the playoff? If they're as great as they think they are, wouldn't the easier road to the playoff be to win the ACC (which sux so bad in their opinion)? If it's about money, then financially how does the next 10 years in the ACC compare with the financial cost of leaving over the same time-frame? I think they're just so butt-hurt that they're willing to burn the whole thing down, the ACC and themselves if necessary.

Stop and really think about this from an FSU perspective. Put aside all the social media, message board, fan-boy garbage and what is really happening?

FSU wants $$$$. Whether in or out of the ACC, right or wrong, they want money. They have two ways to get money. Either put enough pressure on the ACC to get a larger share, or get out of the ACC in favor of a conference that is paying more.

The opening salvo was “we’re worth more, pay us now.” The ACC somewhat acquiesced with the unequal revenue sharing change. Of course, FSU wants more than that. I think what is happing now is stage “1B” of the process… FSU has exhausted the low-hanging fruit and is looking for leverage and understanding their rights. They may or may not have any, but they need to know that sooner or later. May as well be now.

Assuming the ACC revenues are tapped out for them, FSU has two ways out of the conference. Either they pay a big settlement (which I don’t think they are interested in doing) or the GOR ends. If there is any legality they can hang their hat on, that helps the settlement discussion, but again, I don’t think they want settlement yet. The other added benefit to stirring things up now is the impending option for ESPN. If the ESPN option isn’t exercised, it seems reasonable (from limited information) that the GOR can be challenged. A vocal, unhappy, litigious conference member likely has to be dealt with in some way before the option decision is made (sounds like this deadline is sometime in 2025). I’m speculating, but I think FSU recognizes that this getting messy could have the added benefit of ESPN reconsidering the option.

Here’s the drawback for FSU… if ACC GOR has all of its ducks in a row (it seems it does) and ESPN agrees that the GOR is solid and elects to exercise the option (I agree with those who say ESPN will extend), it is a very decisive rebuke of any claims made by FSU and they are really stuck until 2036. They would perhaps be interested at that point in talking about an exit fee / damages settlement.

All of that said, your point about the opportunity cost is very valid. They are going give up a lot ($40 millionish annually) and spend more money in the process of getting out, just to chase a full share in another conference…which doesn’t seem guaranteed at this point. They must have some REALLY strong assurances of their landing spot if they actually take the steps toward withdrawing from the ACC.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Stop and really think about this from an FSU perspective. Put aside all the social media, message board, fan-boy garbage and what is really happening?

FSU wants $$$$. Whether in or out of the ACC, right or wrong, they want money. They have two ways to get money. Either put enough pressure on the ACC to get a larger share, or get out of the ACC in favor of a conference that is paying more.

The opening salvo was “we’re worth more, pay us now.” The ACC somewhat acquiesced with the unequal revenue sharing change. Of course, FSU wants more than that. I think what is happing now is stage “1B” of the process… FSU has exhausted the low-hanging fruit and is looking for leverage and understanding their rights. They may or may not have any, but they need to know that sooner or later. May as well be now.

Assuming the ACC revenues are tapped out for them, FSU has two ways out of the conference. Either they pay a big settlement (which I don’t think they are interested in doing) or the GOR ends. If there is any legality they can hang their hat on, that helps the settlement discussion, but again, I don’t think they want settlement yet. The other added benefit to stirring things up now is the impending option for ESPN. If the ESPN option isn’t exercised, it seems reasonable (from limited information) that the GOR can be challenged. A vocal, unhappy, litigious conference member likely has to be dealt with in some way before the option decision is made (sounds like this deadline is sometime in 2025). I’m speculating, but I think FSU recognizes that this getting messy could have the added benefit of ESPN reconsidering the option.

Here’s the drawback for FSU… if ACC GOR has all of its ducks in a row (it seems it does) and ESPN agrees that the GOR is solid and elects to exercise the option (I agree with those who say ESPN will extend), it is a very decisive rebuke of any claims made by FSU and they are really stuck until 2036. They would perhaps be interested at that point in talking about an exit fee / damages settlement.

All of that said, your point about the opportunity cost is very valid. They are going give up a lot ($40 millionish annually) and spend more money in the process of getting out, just to chase a full share in another conference…which doesn’t seem guaranteed at this point. They must have some REALLY strong assurances of their landing spot if they actually take the steps toward withdrawing from the ACC.

You just said the obvious - there is no downside for FSU (or any school) to try and get out other than legal fees. If it works to get out great for them. If they can’t get out, they are no worse off because by doing nothing or taking legal action and being told no, either way they are stuck until 2036 like the rest of us hostages. At least they are trying. The ACC is going to be raided. The only question is when, but it will definitely happen between now and 2036. We are all just simply watching a long drawn out funeral procession and at least one school is asking the question “what are we doing here”.

 

[CEB]

You just said the obvious - there is no downside for FSU (or any school) to try and get out other than legal fees. If it works to get out great for them. If they can’t get out, they are no worse off because by doing nothing or taking legal action and being told no, either way they are stuck until 2036 like the rest of us hostages. At least they are trying. The ACC is going to be raided. The only question is when, but it will definitely happen between now and 2036. We are all just simply watching a long drawn out funeral procession and at least one school is asking the question “what are we doing here”.

Well, the obvious is what’s happening if look at what is actually happening and not the internet hysteria.
I am stating what’s happening because many are tending toward hysterics…After you condemn me for stating the obvious, you tilt toward the same hysterics with your tales of funeral processions and “raiding” and your strange penchant for cheerleading FSU’s efforts.
You’re grossly mistaken or deliberately obtuse if you believe that FSU is the only school exploring options… they are just doing it most vocally.

 

[Richard7125]

Stop and really think about this from an FSU perspective. Put aside all the social media, message board, fan-boy garbage and what is really happening?

FSU wants $$$$. Whether in or out of the ACC, right or wrong, they want money. They have two ways to get money. Either put enough pressure on the ACC to get a larger share, or get out of the ACC in favor of a conference that is paying more.

The opening salvo was “we’re worth more, pay us now.” The ACC somewhat acquiesced with the unequal revenue sharing change. Of course, FSU wants more than that. I think what is happing now is stage “1B” of the process… FSU has exhausted the low-hanging fruit and is looking for leverage and understanding their rights. They may or may not have any, but they need to know that sooner or later. May as well be now.

Assuming the ACC revenues are tapped out for them, FSU has two ways out of the conference. Either they pay a big settlement (which I don’t think they are interested in doing) or the GOR ends. If there is any legality they can hang their hat on, that helps the settlement discussion, but again, I don’t think they want settlement yet. The other added benefit to stirring things up now is the impending option for ESPN. If the ESPN option isn’t exercised, it seems reasonable (from limited information) that the GOR can be challenged. A vocal, unhappy, litigious conference member likely has to be dealt with in some way before the option decision is made (sounds like this deadline is sometime in 2025). I’m speculating, but I think FSU recognizes that this getting messy could have the added benefit of ESPN reconsidering the option.

Here’s the drawback for FSU… if ACC GOR has all of its ducks in a row (it seems it does) and ESPN agrees that the GOR is solid and elects to exercise the option (I agree with those who say ESPN will extend), it is a very decisive rebuke of any claims made by FSU and they are really stuck until 2036. They would perhaps be interested at that point in talking about an exit fee / damages settlement.

All of that said, your point about the opportunity cost is very valid. They are going give up a lot ($40 millionish annually) and spend more money in the process of getting out, just to chase a full share in another conference…which doesn’t seem guaranteed at this point. They must have some REALLY strong assurances of their landing spot if they actually take the steps toward withdrawing from the ACC.

SMU is forgoing all ACC revenues for 7 years to be in the ACC. (approx $280m). SMU said it's not about the money. It's about the prestige of being in a Power5 conference. FSU looks at the SEC/Big10 the same way SMU looked at the ACC. Yes, there is a money component, but there is also the perception of sitting at the big boys table.

 

[stinger78]

SMU is forgoing all ACC revenues for 7 years to be in the ACC. (approx $280m). SMU said it's not about the money. It's about the prestige of being in a Power5 conference. FSU looks at the SEC/Big10 the same way SMU looked at the ACC. Yes, there is a money component, but there is also the perception of sitting at the big boys table.

I have come to agree with this. The truly funny part is the reality that for most of the last 15 years, F$U has been quite mediocre.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Well, the obvious is what’s happening if look at what is actually happening and not the internet hysteria.
I am stating what’s happening because many are tending toward hysterics…After you condemn me for stating the obvious, you tilt toward the same hysterics with your tales of funeral processions and “raiding” and your strange penchant for cheerleading FSU’s efforts.
You’re grossly mistaken or deliberately obtuse if you believe that FSU is the only school exploring options… they are just doing it most vocally.

I hear you and get it. And yes, I am glad someone has the guts to do it vocally because that‘s what brings change most of the time. Remember the “SEC” chants and the Finebaums discussing ad naseum about the SEC. Guess what? It worked as the recruits bought it, their fans bought it, and most importantly the media bought it. That’s the name of the game.

As for my funeral procession remark, everyone knows this conference is going to be raided. It’s just unclear when. If the ACC tossed the GOR tomorrow half the teams would leave by Friday. We are in a hostage situation. If the SEC told their teams anyone could leave not one of them would leave. Same for the BIG.

And my strange penchant for cheerleading FSU’s efforts is because GT is FSU. We are brothers in this thing. GT’s undefeated conference champion just got relegated to 2nd class citizenship because the powers who run this sport wanted 2 SEC and 2 BIG teams in it. Imagine what they will do to GT when we are 12-1 and ranked 6th but don’t get an invite because we lost to (you name our opponent in the ACCCG) by a field goal while a 11-1 Ole Miss or 10-2 Mich St get an invite along with the usuals of OSU, Mich, Bama, UGA, LSU, ND, etc. Look at their actions not their words. The ACC is about to get seriously hosed in this 12 team invitational. When it happens to GT these boards will be melting and I’ll be asking why is everyone upset when they have just told us thru actions what to expect. The funniest thing will be when we beat UGA and they get an invite and we don’t. That is why the ACC is going to die and I hope GT is doing something quietly to ensure our future because eventually the procession will lead to a burial.

 

[yeti92]

I hear you and get it. And yes, I am glad someone has the guts to do it vocally because that‘s what brings change most of the time. Remember the “SEC” chants and the Finebaums discussing ad naseum about the SEC. Guess what? It worked as the recruits bought it, their fans bought it, and most importantly the media bought it. That’s the name of the game.

As for my funeral procession remark, everyone knows this conference is going to be raided. It’s just unclear when. If the ACC tossed the GOR tomorrow half the teams would leave by Friday. We are in a hostage situation. If the SEC told their teams anyone could leave not one of them would leave. Same for the BIG.

And my strange penchant for cheerleading FSU’s efforts is because GT is FSU. We are brothers in this thing. GT’s undefeated conference champion just got relegated to 2nd class citizenship because the powers who run this sport wanted 2 SEC and 2 BIG teams in it. Imagine what they will do to GT when we are 12-1 and ranked 6th but don’t get an invite because we lost to (you name our opponent in the ACCCG) by a field goal while a 11-1 Ole Miss or 10-2 Mich St get an invite along with the usuals of OSU, Mich, Bama, UGA, LSU, ND, etc. Look at their actions not their words. The ACC is about to get seriously hosed in this 12 team invitational. When it happens to GT these boards will be melting and I’ll be asking why is everyone upset when they have just told us thru actions what to expect. The funniest thing will be when we beat UGA and they get an invite and we don’t. That is why the ACC is going to die and I hope GT is doing something quietly to ensure our future because eventually the procession will lead to a burial.

 

[CEB]

As for my funeral procession remark, everyone knows this conference is going to be raided. It’s just unclear when. If the ACC tossed the GOR tomorrow half the teams would leave by Friday. We are in a hostage situation. If the SEC told their teams anyone could leave not one of them would leave. Same for the BIG.

I will address the bolded. I think there are 1-2 schools sought by the BIG and 1-2 schools sought by SEC…. And there is probably overlap in that group. I don’t see more than that getting even partial shares in the BIG or SEC, so if “half the teams” are leaving, 4-5 of them are leaving for less money in the B12.
My gut says the 10 or so ACC teams and ND pull a couple B12 schools instead.

 

[stinger78]

I will address the bolded. I think there are 1-2 schools sought by the BIG and 1-2 schools sought by SEC…. And there is probably overlap in that group. I don’t see more than that getting even partial shares in the BIG or SEC, so if “half the teams” are leaving, 4-5 of them are leaving for less money in the B12.
My gut says the 10 or so ACC teams and ND pull a couple B12 schools instead.

This is what I see as well. Say F$U and Clemson somehow both jump. Who does the ACC add to replace them? I’d probably start with OK State and Kansas. We’d not be replacing Dook and UVA, we’d be replacing two ACC academic bottom feeders. Those might even be academic upgrades. Kansas definitely helps basketball and OK State has put some good baseball teams on the diamond in addition to solid football. That would be an interesting swap.

 

[cpf2001]

I'm definitely unconvinced that there's no downside for FSU. 50% chance of no downside? Sure. 80%? Probably. 99%? Ehh.....

The odds of "they're just throwing a tantrum" are low if you just look at any given school, but the odds of there being 1 bat**** crazy administration out of a hundred in the country are also pretty good in the large. Ego, anger, and being used to getting what you want are a dangerous combo. Would anyone trade being second mover who can take advantage if FSU blows up the GOR for being the ones driving the FSU lawsuit right now? I sure wouldn't.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I hear you and get it. And yes, I am glad someone has the guts to do it vocally because that‘s what brings change most of the time. Remember the “SEC” chants and the Finebaums discussing ad naseum about the SEC. Guess what? It worked as the recruits bought it, their fans bought it, and most importantly the media bought it. That’s the name of the game.

As for my funeral procession remark, everyone knows this conference is going to be raided. It’s just unclear when. If the ACC tossed the GOR tomorrow half the teams would leave by Friday. We are in a hostage situation. If the SEC told their teams anyone could leave not one of them would leave. Same for the BIG.

And my strange penchant for cheerleading FSU’s efforts is because GT is FSU. We are brothers in this thing. GT’s undefeated conference champion just got relegated to 2nd class citizenship because the powers who run this sport wanted 2 SEC and 2 BIG teams in it. Imagine what they will do to GT when we are 12-1 and ranked 6th but don’t get an invite because we lost to (you name our opponent in the ACCCG) by a field goal while a 11-1 Ole Miss or 10-2 Mich St get an invite along with the usuals of OSU, Mich, Bama, UGA, LSU, ND, etc. Look at their actions not their words. The ACC is about to get seriously hosed in this 12 team invitational. When it happens to GT these boards will be melting and I’ll be asking why is everyone upset when they have just told us thru actions what to expect. The funniest thing will be when we beat UGA and they get an invite and we don’t. That is why the ACC is going to die and I hope GT is doing something quietly to ensure our future because eventually the procession will lead to a burial.

Sometimes you have to overstate your case to make a point. Perhaps you are doing that.

But here’s the point. The SEC has been overstating their case for 40 years or more, and, as you pointed out, it worked. FSU is now overstating there case. And something may change as a result.

Yep, the ACC has been screwed for a long time. The proof of that is the low esteem many of our fans walk around with. They suggest, in so many words, that Tech deserves to be in the ACC because it’s a crappy league for crappy teams. Others periodically bring up dropping Tech down a division or just giving up on ever competing again at the highest level. Still others will argue that we should be in the B1G or that the biggest mistake in the history of GT sports was leaving the SEC. To be sure, most of us would be happy in the ACC if the conference ever got its act together and started getting some respect. Nobody believes everything is currently hunky dory in the ACC.

But the proof of your argument, well stated, is that B1G members and SEC members don’t complain much and don’t have endless conversations about leaving the conference.

So much to dislike about FSU. So much about their current case is unseemly and vulgar. But the ACC brought this on itself by constantly allowing itself to be talked down to, never getting its marketing act together, and never standing up for its teams. The current conference scandal is not something that happens in the SEC or the B1G.

My only question is whether this latest conference scandal is actually just business as usual for the ACC or whether the status quo is starting to change.

 

[stinger78]

Sometimes you have to overstate your case to make a point. Perhaps you are doing that.

But here’s the point. The SEC has been overstating their case for 40 years or more, and, as you pointed out, it worked.

Yep, the ACC has been screwed for a long time. The proof of that is the low esteem many of our fans walk around with.

Still others will argue that we should be in the B1G or that the biggest mistake in the history of GT sports was leaving the SEC.

Sometimes you do have to exaggerate to make a point. Sometimes exaggeration obscures a point. Both are the case with the SECheat. They have been overstating things for 40 years, at least. Here’s my take, FWIW, on Tech leaving the SECheat back in 1964.

People read today’s exaggerated view of the SECheat back into that fateful 1964 decision all the time. The truth, IMPO, is the SECheat isn’t all that now, and sure wasn’t all that in 1964. It was a backwoods southern conference dominated by a small handful of large, segregated southern schools. Tech was playing northern, midwestern, and west coast schools and was not bound by that identity. The first black QB at a major southern university played at Tech and she graduates more African American engineers than any other school now.

Yes, the ACC has always been ruled by the NC Mafia, so it has its shortcomings, but it has always mentioned education and sports in the same sentence. That is something that the SECheat has consistently mocked over the years… but you don’t hear that in those exaggerated claims.

 

[CEB]

Yep, the ACC has been screwed for a long time. The proof of that is the low esteem many of our fans walk around So much to dislike about FSU. So much about their current case is unseemly and vulgar. But the ACC brought this on itself by constantly allowing itself to be talked down to, never getting its marketing act together, and never standing up for its teams. The current conference scandal is not something that happens in the SEC or the B1G.

My only question is whether this latest conference scandal is actually just business as usual for the ACC or whether the status quo is starting to change.

The song remains the same…

Many college sports fans (and many within the ACC) are still accepting it. @SOWEGA Jacket is one of many. This board (several of us at least) is part of a very small and likely shrinking minority of folks who don’t see the inevitable decline (or dissolution) of the ACC. Not to say it won’t happen, or it can’t happen, but that it shouldn’t happen. The ACC will not crumble with FSU’s departure. That is FSU pounding their chest and spewing Internet propaganda. It won’t crumble if FSU and one to two other schools depart either. It will crumble when (if) the middle third of the conference panics and begins making desperate decisions.
To your overarching point, the ACC needs to get its s#** together, advocate for itself, and shore up the 12 or so schools that are not going to get full shares from the BIG or SEC.

 

[Vespidae]

The song remains the same…

Many college sports fans (and many within the ACC) are still accepting it. @SOWEGA Jacket is one of many. This board (several of us at least) is part of a very small and likely shrinking minority of folks who don’t see the inevitable decline (or dissolution) of the ACC. Not to say it won’t happen, or it can’t happen, but that it shouldn’t happen. The ACC will not crumble with FSU’s departure. That is FSU pounding their chest and spewing Internet propaganda. It won’t crumble if FSU and one to two other schools depart either. It will crumble when (if) the middle third of the conference panics and begins making desperate decisions.
To your overarching point, the ACC needs to get its s#** together, advocate for itself, and shore up the 12 or so schools that are not going to get full shares from the BIG or SEC.

The ACC isn’t going to disappear. It is not that the ACC is falling in comparison to others, it’s that others are accelerating ahead. Those are very different dynamics.

Tech was in the Southern Conference and left it to form the SEC. It left the ACC to become independent. It was on the outside looking and and wasting away. It tried to get back into the SEC but was rebuffed. Still, even as late as the 1990’s, the gap between spend per player in the SEC was higher, but it wasn’t obscenely higher. Today it is.

What differentiated the ACC from others 40 years ago was basketball dominance. That is gone. FSU and Miami were supposed to elevate the conference and they did, until both football programs went dormant. The ACC would be in a very different space if the FSU and Miami of the 1990’s had maintained their football reputations. Neither did.

Today, the game of athletics is entertainment and media drives it now. Kim King spoke to this 30 years ago and summed it up … “Tech doesn’t have the resources to win a Natty today, but it does have the resources to be a consistent Top 25.”

None of this is new. It’s been evolving for at least 30 years, but like most things, it’s accelerating. But, if South Alabama or Tulane or Cincinnati can field competitive teams, so can GT. I’m kinda excited about playing Stanford, and Cal and looking forward to the future.