Conference Realignment

[slugboy]

He stirred the pot in Bham and that's why he was successful.

I guess it fits into the “no attention is bad attention”.

For ESPN, someone like Paul Finebaum cost much less to produce than a football game. If he sells better ads than a Tac Shaver and a Spurtle, then he can talk about mutant salamanders for weeks on end as far as they care.

I’m going to opt out of more of the Finebaum conversation, because I can’t listen to more than 5 minutes of him, and my informed opinion stops at “I don’t get any value out of his show”.

 

[stech81]

We agree on this ROOT! LOL. ACC wins against SEC are huge. Big win for FSU AND ACC last night.

Problem is by the end of the week ESPN will still build up the SEC and only thing they will say about the ACC is how long it will take the ACC to lose to FSU Clemson and unc. The only problem I have is FSU running their mouth to the media.

 

[TooTall]

If you're not an $EC inbred fan, Finebaum should not be on your list of credible sports figures. He rode the Saban bandwagon until the mutts played them in 2018. He's just a conference blowhard.

 

[stech81]

If you're not an $EC inbred fan, Finebaum should not be on your list of credible sports figures. He rode the Saban bandwagon until the mutts played them in 2018. He's just a conference blowhard.

So he is like my in-laws

 

[gameface]

For a failing sports writer he's done pretty well. He almost single handedly kept the Post Herald afloat at a time when the News was dominating the Bham market. I admired his loyalty to that paper.

He is currently a rich man. Failure? Hardly.

The time period I am talking about was before sports radio and the internet. The printed paper was the only form of news and he was failing.

 

[Root4GT]

We agree on this ROOT! LOL. ACC wins against SEC are huge. Big win for FSU AND ACC last night.

Amen brother!

 

[Root4GT]

Problem is by the end of the week ESPN will still build up the SEC and only thing they will say about the ACC is how long it will take the ACC to lose to FSU Clemson and unc. The only problem I have is FSU running their mouth to the media.

Time to pull hard for Texas to beat Alabama.

 

[orientalnc]

The time period I am talking about was before sports radio and the internet. The printed paper was the only form of news and he was failing.

I am not sure what time period you are talking about. Maybe you don't either.

Finebaum graduated from college in 1979 and almost immediately began at the Post Herald (while I was living in Bham). The Post Herald had, for a while, been a marginal afternoon paper at a time when morning papers were becoming the dominant source of printed news. He quickly became the most read sports writer in Bham. He started a talk show on WAPI in the mid 80s and was VERY successful. He exposed the recruiting scandal at Bama in the 90s that put them on probation and later did the same to Auburn. It was because of his popular radio show that ESPN hired him. You may not like him or his views about SEC football, but he is and has been very successful.

 

[roadkill]

wouldn't be surprised if instead of noting how the ACC went 2-1 against the SEC in opening weekend and the SEC was 1-3 in P5 OOC GAMES, they'll say something like "This just shows that UNC and FSU belong in the SEC"

Not far off the mark. From Finebaum this morning, after assessing the SEC's performance this weekend - "...so how do you come out of the first weekend feeling very good, especially considering that 2 of those losses were to the ACC, especially 2 schools that many wonder could end up being in the SEC at some point.” Predictable.

 

[CuseJacket]

 

[cpf2001]

So the 1% graduation rate school might be bad at teaching, but at least you can demonstrate that the graduates did learn things and that the people who did graduate graduated because they could pass a set of tests with known accuracy and precision. At least with erring in that direction "elite" education doesn't just enforce societal power structures.

Well there's also a third group: whatever percent of those who finished was willing to cheat. A school with a poor retention rate will reward the cheaters much more than it will reward either of the "tried, but wasn't capable" or "didn't know how to try, failed" camp. I think that's an under-discussed perverse incentive of the adversarial model.

I'm just saying "try to be the third school that can take the larger admissions class and get them to pass the hard tests that prove they learned ****." And I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to strive for that... other than "it's hard and I can get easier prestige as an administrator more easily by just being selective instead." I'm not saying it's easy, I'm asking why we don't care more that we're not trying (at a society-level, not at a GT-only level).

Cause that's a societal-level incentive: There's prestige in passing the test. There's prestige in making the test hard. There's prestige in rejecting applicants. There's prestige in bringing in research dollars. There isn't prestige at being good at teaching. There isn't prestige in turning the unprepared high-schoolers into well-equipped adults. How do we fix that?

Like, all the talk of "I wouldn't get in these days" strikes me as extremely weird: so today's version of you would have fewer opportunities than you did? That seems like a bad thing. (Though I'm not sure I actually believe it because today's high school students of the sort who would apply in the first place have been far more helicoptered and coached than 20, 30, 40+ years ago, and so IMO things like test scores and GPAs have become something of a zero-sum race-to-the-top. But I think that's a kinda sad and bad thing too... roboticism over creativity and balance.)

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

Not far off the mark. From Finebaum this morning, after assessing the SEC's performance this weekend - "...so how do you come out of the first weekend feeling very good, especially considering that 2 of those losses were to the ACC, especially 2 schools that many wonder could end up being in the SEC at some point.” Predictable.

This is hilarious because of how predictable it is.

I know the real money is in football, but would UNC really leave the ACC and lose the Tobacco Road Mafia basketball advantage? UNC Basketball has to be one of the few college basketball programs that is comparable financially to football.

 

[gameface]

I am not sure what time period you are talking about. Maybe you don't either.

Finebaum graduated from college in 1979 and almost immediately began at the Post Herald (while I was living in Bham). The Post Herald had, for a while, been a marginal afternoon paper at a time when morning papers were becoming the dominant source of printed news. He quickly became the most read sports writer in Bham. He started a talk show on WAPI in the mid 80s and was VERY successful. He exposed the recruiting scandal at Bama in the 90s that put them on probation and later did the same to Auburn. It was because of his popular radio show that ESPN hired him. You may not like him or his views about SEC football, but he is and has been very successful.

I am referring to the time between about 80 and 85. He was not liked by many of the Alabama fans. Not saying he did not receive some acclaim for his writing just that he was not liked by that segment. And in Birmingham UA fans are in the majority. I too was in Birmingham at that time and had many relatives who were US fans.

 

[Vespidae]

Finebaum's constant criticism of the ACC on ESPN tells me that ESPN will be happy to see the ACC fall apart. He continually does this along with the other talking heads on ESPN. I
saw the WF Athletic Director say that we had a great relationship with ESPN. He must not be watching.

ESPN executives have to know that this type of commentary will hurt the perception of the ACC and consequently ACC football recruiting.

It puzzles me that Jim Phillips can't put some pressure on ESPN to stop the gratuitous criticisms that we see constantly on this network. As others have said, the ACC needs to have a forceful PR department to combat some of this derogatory talk.

I don't see ESPN or FOX treating the BIG 12 in this manner.

Otter:
He can't do that do that to our pledges.

Boon:
Only we can do that to our pledges.

 

[Vespidae]

Not far off the mark. From Finebaum this morning, after assessing the SEC's performance this weekend - "...so how do you come out of the first weekend feeling very good, especially considering that 2 of those losses were to the ACC, especially 2 schools that many wonder could end up being in the SEC at some point.” Predictable.

I watch Finebaum a decent amount. Once, a caller wanted to talk about Michigan. Finebaum basically said, “This program is dedicated to covering and promoting the SEC. Thank you for your call, but nobody here cares.”

He has never said otherwise.

The problem is, we are complaining about an SEC show instead of having our own. And we don’t. It’s like Russia complaining they don’t get good press in the USA.

 

[gameface]

I watch Finebaum a decent amount. Once, a caller wanted to talk about Michigan. Finebaum basically said, “This program is dedicated to covering and promoting the SEC. Thank you for your call, but nobody here cares.”

He has never said otherwise.

The problem is, we are complaining about an SEC show instead of having our own. And we don’t. It’s like Russia complaining they don’t get good press in the USA.

If only he would stick to that and not put down the ACC once in a while.

 

[Root4GT]

I watch Finebaum a decent amount. Once, a caller wanted to talk about Michigan. Finebaum basically said, “This program is dedicated to covering and promoting the SEC. Thank you for your call, but nobody here cares.”

He has never said otherwise.

The problem is, we are complaining about an SEC show instead of having our own. And we don’t. It’s like Russia complaining they don’t get good press in the USA.

The bigger problem is ACC football does not generate the same passion or level of interest as SEC football so there will never be a similar show to Finebaum's on the ACC Network. ACC teams are in a lot of cities with Pro teams. Here in DC sports talk radio is 90% Redskins/WFT/Commanders, 8% Nationals and 2 percent everything else. UVA, VT and Maryland get virtually no talk show discussions. Heck the Cowboys get more discussion than those 3 schools combined.

I would expect similar issues in Miami, Boston and Pittsburgh. You guys know the Atlanta breakdown. I would expect college football (UGA) gets a fair amount of discussion as well as the Falcons and Braves. Louisville and the RDU Triangle likely are the spots where college teams get lots of discussions.

 

[orientalnc]

I am referring to the time between about 80 and 85. He was not liked by many of the Alabama fans. Not saying he did not receive some acclaim for his writing just that he was not liked by that segment. And in Birmingham UA fans are in the majority. I too was in Birmingham at that time and had many relatives who were US fans.

Saying he was not liked by Alabama fans is not the same as saying he was a failure as a writer. He challenged Ray Perkins in print and the fans did not like to read what he wrote. And it continued under Curry. When he started his talk show in 1985 he got a lot of brutal callers, but they kept listening and kept calling. His response was to keep putting fuel on the fire. WAPI ratings were great during that time.

You have to also remember, Bama fans were used to playing for #1 rankings under Bryant. Under Perkins they were playing to be in the Sun Bowl. Finebaum's columns were hard on Perkins and the Bama fans didn't like that.

 

[gameface]

Saying he was not liked by Alabama fans is not the same as saying he was a failure as a writer. He challenged Ray Perkins in print and the fans did not like to read what he wrote. And it continued under Curry. When he started his talk show in 1985 he got a lot of brutal callers, but they kept listening and kept calling. His response was to keep putting fuel on the fire. WAPI ratings were great during that time.

You have to also remember, Bama fans were used to playing for #1 rankings under Bryant. Under Perkins they were playing to be in the Sun Bowl. Finebaum's columns were hard on Perkins and the Bama fans didn't like that.

I did not say he was a failure as a writer per se. He got some awards but when the majority of the fans do not like him; his financial future is not good; hence his change to radio full time.

 

[orientalnc]

I did not say he was a failure as a writer per se. He got some awards but when the majority of the fans do not like him; his financial future is not good; hence his change to radio full time.

I don't like Finebaum or his show, but he was a fresh voice when he was writing for the Post Herald. Later, I thought he was essentially trolling the Bama callers. But his schtick was working for him and the station.