Conference Realignment

[Vespidae]

Agree completely and have said for years that the ACC failed at hyping itself the way the SEC does.

FSU, being left out of thevplayoffs, something the committee telegraphed might happen even before the QB injury, tells me the ship has sailed on the ACC being able to hype itself into respectability. We’ve had more than half a century of major PR hype from both the SEC and the B1G. Propaganda works because it’s repetitive and relentless. It usually only gets neutralized when a generation dies off and is replaced by newer generations who weren’t exposed to the propaganda and grow up with a different narrative. No evidence that is going to happen.

How does market size fit into that theory? The ACC can’t hype because the size of the fanbase is dramatically smaller.

Look at merch sales. It’s overwhelmingly SEC and B1G. That’s never going to change.

 

[iceeater1969]

How does market size fit into that theory? The ACC can’t hype because the size of the fanbase is dramatically smaller.

Look at merch sales. It’s overwhelmingly SEC and B1G. That’s never going to change.

"That’s never going to change." is a quote that really means - In the near term the fan base and mech sales for the "elite teams" in SEC B1G will continue to dwarf the scattered and crispy fried left over ACC and left behind b12.

I hope we join with the Big 12 and have payouts that reflect tv ratings plus conference records. Teams could loose $ if below average and could gain $ if above. Also bonus for larges change per years. With some skin in the games over a few years the top of the leftovers in acc b12 will look way better than the bottom of the SEC and B1G. Having some long term bottom dwellers in the below P2 conference cannot be allowed.

Back in the day oil mega oil companies companies required all suppliers to have a set of ISO standards and procedures. These were ok for material suppliers, but at my consulting company struggled to have standards that would work for all kinds of different clients. Finally, ISO dropped the "giant paper work fake standards" and said you need to MEASURE AND TRACK PERFORMANCE - AND you must ESTIMATE and SHOW CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT. We used this to "bonus up various project groups our of the bonus pool" and clients loved it. The large companies would create bonus pools for Environmental, Safety, Schedule, etc.

As V said we are never going to match the top tier of the p2.


I can see that GT could be a team that gets a relook in 4 years. e out to that hooks up with B12 will be naton wide lower tier conferecne
w/o FSU/Clemson.

What will change is that certain of the scattered and fried will rise up. They next flip when they decide that the bottom dwellers in SEC Big 1g need to I sincerely believe GT can be that team. The top of the new league will and become much better match up

 

[Dman374]

The BIG10 isn't on the same tier as the SEC. Even with their recent additions. They're getting paid like it, but make no mistake the bottom is hot garbage, and the mid is exactly that, very mid like everyone else. I made a comment a while back stacking up teams top to bottom by fanduel odds, and the BIG10 drops off faster than a crying kid at daycare. Fast enough I would be really curious what spreads would come out as vs any other conference team at their same rank. I would also state, not all fan bases of the BIG10 are on the same level of SEC teams... they're closer to ACC. There's going to be respectable die hard thick and thin fans, think Nebraska, but also majority seats empty teams, think Northwestern, Minnesota, Indiana, and Rutgers. Say what you will about a down Florida, not great Miss St., Arkansas, TAMU, or Auburn, but at least the fan base is active and filling seats and actually watching their team on TV. With the exception of Vandy, who in the SEC had worst attendance than whoever your third best ACC school is? Or forth best BIG10 team? Even USC (trojans), if they're not winning, those seats are bare. Out of the teams the BIG10 brought in, I'd say Oregon has thick and thin fans, but UCLA/Washington/USC fans only want to watch when the team is winning. (Reminds me of ATL sports fans....)

 

[Vespidae]

What will change is that certain of the scattered and fried will rise up

It won’t change. Rising up means someone else has to be displaced. There’s no mechanism for that.

It’s 80/20. CFB is skewed, but it’s predictably skewed. It’s skewed towards schools with massive fan bases, viewership, donors, and ability to place athletes into the NFL. It’s equally skewed against smaller schools, smaller fan bases, ratings, and NFL alumni.

That’s why the Premier League example is the best one, in my mind for CFB. When opportunities exist for schools to advance a tier … let them. And those that are in a down cycle … drop a tier. But will GT or BC or Rice ever rival Texas, or Oregon, or LSU for program size/importance? Might be a stretch.

 

[yeti92]

It won’t change. Rising up means someone else has to be displaced. There’s no mechanism for that.

It’s 80/20. CFB is skewed, but it’s predictably skewed. It’s skewed towards schools with massive fan bases, viewership, donors, and ability to place athletes into the NFL. It’s equally skewed against smaller schools, smaller fan bases, ratings, and NFL alumni.

That’s why the Premier League example is the best one, in my mind for CFB. When opportunities exist for schools to advance a tier … let them. And those that are in a down cycle … drop a tier. But will GT or BC or Rice ever rival Texas, or Oregon, or LSU for program size/importance? Might be a stretch.

Are we talking about the same Oregon that has never been recognized by anyone as a national champion and really doesn't have much notable history to speak of?

 

[Vespidae]

Are we talking about the same Oregon that has never been recognized by anyone as a national champion and really doesn't have much notable history to speak of?

If it makes you feel better, delete and insert any land grant university name. How about UGA? Florida?

Feel better?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

How does market size fit into that theory? The ACC can’t hype because the size of the fanbase is dramatically smaller.

Look at merch sales. It’s overwhelmingly SEC and B1G. That’s never going to change.

Market size is huge. Would not argue otherwise. But whether your market is large or small you need a sales plan. ACC never seemed to get around to that.

 

[yeti92]

If it makes you feel better, delete and insert any land grant university name. How about UGA? Florida?

Feel better?

You were the one who picked Oregon, not me.

 

[Vespidae]

You were the one who picked Oregon, not me.

You were the one offended by it, not me.

 

[Vespidae]

Market size is huge. Would not argue otherwise. But whether your market is large or small you need a sales plan. ACC never seemed to get around to that.

Hard to say. The ACC is still considered one of the top conferences. It’s not the SunBelt. It’s not the Mountain. Its decent. The problem is they are No 3 and act like, No 3.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Hard to say. The ACC is still considered one of the top conferences. It’s not the SunBelt. It’s not the Mountain. Its decent. The problem is they are No 3 and act like, No 3.

Yep, there is no, “We try harder” in their marketing.

 

[slugboy]

Even in the B1G, I hear fans of original schools saying things along the same lines we do here.
If you’re an Ohio State, Penn State, or Michigan fan, the system works. If you’re a Wisconsin fan, you’re on the outside looking in, and you don’t really compete for a conference championship. Games aren’t as interesting as they used to be. There’s a B1G playoff tier, there’s a mid-level bowl tier, and there are teams that lose. Michigan attention is going up, but other teams are eroding. Maryland is paid to be there, but fan interest is waning (only 22k per game).
In contrast, the SEC is doing great for attendance.
We’re totally capable of having the same kind of interest and attendance as Arkansas or Ole Miss. When you get to South Carolina and Florida, you start to see a different scale of attendance. We’re better than a number of B1G schools.

But, like the Premier League in soccer, there are haves and have nots in the leagues (conferences), and the star teams grow while the other teams erode. The Premier League is bigger than ever, but that doesn’t bolster Nottingham Forest or Burnley much. There are six winners, then there are bystanders and punching bags.

Even after realignment (assuming it happens) erosion will continue. It’s musical chairs, and the number of chairs only goes down.

 

[billga99]

The BIG10 isn't on the same tier as the SEC. Even with their recent additions. They're getting paid like it, but make no mistake the bottom is hot garbage, and the mid is exactly that, very mid like everyone else. I made a comment a while back stacking up teams top to bottom by fanduel odds, and the BIG10 drops off faster than a crying kid at daycare. Fast enough I would be really curious what spreads would come out as vs any other conference team at their same rank. I would also state, not all fan bases of the BIG10 are on the same level of SEC teams... they're closer to ACC. There's going to be respectable die hard thick and thin fans, think Nebraska, but also majority seats empty teams, think Northwestern, Minnesota, Indiana, and Rutgers. Say what you will about a down Florida, not great Miss St., Arkansas, TAMU, or Auburn, but at least the fan base is active and filling seats and actually watching their team on TV. With the exception of Vandy, who in the SEC had worst attendance than whoever your third best ACC school is? Or forth best BIG10 team? Even USC (trojans), if they're not winning, those seats are bare. Out of the teams the BIG10 brought in, I'd say Oregon has thick and thin fans, but UCLA/Washington/USC fans only want to watch when the team is winning. (Reminds me of ATL sports fans....)

But the Big Ten made the brilliant move to get multiple networks involved with their TV rights and hyping their conference. The SEC got big bucks from ESPN but will not have the coverage that the Big Ten will have and ultimately the money.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The BIG10 isn't on the same tier as the SEC. Even with their recent additions. They're getting paid like it, but make no mistake the bottom is hot garbage, and the mid is exactly that, very mid like everyone else. I made a comment a while back stacking up teams top to bottom by fanduel odds, and the BIG10 drops off faster than a crying kid at daycare. Fast enough I would be really curious what spreads would come out as vs any other conference team at their same rank. I would also state, not all fan bases of the BIG10 are on the same level of SEC teams... they're closer to ACC. There's going to be respectable die hard thick and thin fans, think Nebraska, but also majority seats empty teams, think Northwestern, Minnesota, Indiana, and Rutgers. Say what you will about a down Florida, not great Miss St., Arkansas, TAMU, or Auburn, but at least the fan base is active and filling seats and actually watching their team on TV. With the exception of Vandy, who in the SEC had worst attendance than whoever your third best ACC school is? Or forth best BIG10 team? Even USC (trojans), if they're not winning, those seats are bare. Out of the teams the BIG10 brought in, I'd say Oregon has thick and thin fans, but UCLA/Washington/USC fans only want to watch when the team is winning. (Reminds me of ATL sports fans....)

I'd say the same thing about the SEC. They're garbage at the bottom, mediocre in the middle, and pretty strong on top. When the SEC starts playing a real OOC schedule, then we can start comparing conferences.

 

[Vespidae]

I'd say the same thing about the SEC. They're garbage at the bottom, mediocre in the middle, and pretty strong on top. When the SEC starts playing a real OOC schedule, then we can start comparing conferences.

Does it really matter? 80,000+ each week in attendance, millions in media …

 

[forensicbuzz]

Does it really matter? 80,000+ each week in attendance, millions in media …

I'm not arguing that point. I agree, it's about eyeballs and wallets.

 

[yeti92]

Does it really matter? 80,000+ each week in attendance, millions in media …

If we are talking about winning football games, yes. You give them as many fans and as much money as you want, USCe and Mississippi State are still losers.

 

[stinger78]

Agreed. I think after Swofford most of the ACC was hoping we would bring in someone who could put the conference in better light. Jim Phillips has been a total disappointment and imo reminds me of Bobinski - where is he? what is he doing?

I think it's water over the dam at this point and there's nothing that Phillips can do.

 

[yeti92]

I think it's water over the dam at this point and there's nothing that Phillips can do.

Sure, but that wasn't the case when he was hired. What has he done to benefit the conference since he was brought on board?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Sure, but that wasn't the case when he was hired. What has he done to benefit the conference since he was brought on board?

Yeti, the answer is obvious. The only thing ACC leadership has done in a long time has been to sue its own members. That’s where we are. We do nothing about the BIG/SEC/ESPN triumvirate, but we go all Rambo on our own members. It’s just funny at this point. All you can do is sit back and root for GT on Saturdays and wait for the conference to fall apart from within.