Conference Realignment

[slugboy]

Tell me about circumstances that would lead to a judge ordering an amended complaint, please.

Did they “feel out” a strategy in court that wasn’t reflected by their complaint as written? Would ordering an amended complaint be a “roadmap” of sorts to a complaint with actual “teeth” to it? It seems to my uninformed legal mind that the judge is essentially giving them an opportunity to make a better case.

You say it’s a small victory for the ACC… I’m not seeing that… unless of course the judge’s order was along the lines of, “You’ve got nothing here, bless your heart. I’m not going to dismiss today… you get one mulligan..” Even then, it’s just a little egg on their face and they live to fight another day.

The gist I have seen is that the ACC lawyers aren’t distinguishing themselves, but the FSU lawyers haven’t accomplished much either.

The ACC lawyers failed in their attempt to get the case moved or stayed, but both are still under consideration. FSU’s lawyers are getting an opportunity to refile. Both sides are getting a chance to fight another day in Florida. According to the judge, no one won today

 

[orientalnc]

The gist I have seen is that the ACC lawyers aren’t distinguishing themselves, but the FSU lawyers haven’t accomplished much either.

The ACC lawyers failed in their attempt to get the case moved or stayed, but both are still under consideration. FSU’s lawyers are getting an opportunity to refile. Both sides are getting a chance to fight another day in Florida. According to the judge, no one won today

Unless the amended filing passes muster the FSU lawsuit is over. More likely the amended filing will be sufficient to deny the ACC motion to dismiss. Cooper gave FSU a week to file. I suspect the ACC will have a week to respond, then a rehearing.

He hasn't addressed the FSU motion to unseal the ESPN contract. That's the essence of their lawsuit.

 

[CEB]

The gist I have seen is that the ACC lawyers aren’t distinguishing themselves, but the FSU lawyers haven’t accomplished much either.

The ACC lawyers failed in their attempt to get the case moved or stayed, but both are still under consideration. FSU’s lawyers are getting an opportunity to refile. Both sides are getting a chance to fight another day in Florida. According to the judge, no one won today

So this is in essence the middle school teacher saying, “None of you followed directions. Do it all over and turn it in on Monday…” This whole ordeal felt like a bunch of petulant preteen whining … I guess this seals it.

WRT the bold… about the most unsurprising result ever?

 

[WreckinGT]

Tell me about circumstances that would lead to a judge ordering an amended complaint, please.

Did they “feel out” a strategy in court that wasn’t reflected by their complaint as written? Would ordering an amended complaint be a “roadmap” of sorts to a complaint with actual “teeth” to it? It seems to my uninformed legal mind that the judge is essentially giving them an opportunity to make a better case.

You say it’s a small victory for the ACC… I’m not seeing that… unless of course the judge’s order was along the lines of, “You’ve got nothing here, bless your heart. I’m not going to dismiss today… you get one mulligan..” Even then, it’s just a little egg on their face and they live to fight another day.

An explanation from a lawyer on Reddit who appears to have no ties to the ACC or FSU:

ACC argues that Florida State’s complaint may contain facts that show the ACC has taken some action(s) that caused harm to Florida State (and Miami) in Florida — this is a (very basic) description of personal jurisdiction — but those facts are not arranged appropriately/provided obviously enough in the Complaint. Florida State argues it doesn’t have to be arranged nicely or explained like the Judge is 5, (which is, with respect to most jurisdictions, correct), even if everyone involved wishes it had been in the first instance.

We are awaiting the Judge’s ruling here.

Edit: Judge has ruled that FSU will have to spell it out more plainly in the Complaint and is giving FSU the opportunity to re-file the Complaint to do so. So, it’s basically just another delay. The Judge in his closing remarks pretty well makes it clear that he understands that the facts, as pled, show personal jurisdiction — he just wants it to be stated more plainly given the “size”/“importance” of the case. State Judges are gonna State Judge lol.

 

[TampaBuzz]

Judge orders FSU, ACC to mediation to settle suit

A Tallahassee judge has ordered Florida State and the ACC to enter mediation in hopes of settling a high-profile lawsuit that could dramatically impact the future of the league.

www.espn.com

 

[forensicbuzz]

Judge orders FSU, ACC to mediation to settle suit

A Tallahassee judge has ordered Florida State and the ACC to enter mediation in hopes of settling a high-profile lawsuit that could dramatically impact the future of the league.

www.espn.com

I'd tell the judge to go pound sand. FSU doesn't have enough money for me to let them out of the ACC until 2036 unless they want to go and leave their media rights. For me, it would be in the 10-figure range, and maybe not starting with a 1.

I'm betting the judge is an FSU guy. Mediation and negotiation are what FSU wanted in the first place.

 

[CEB]

Judge orders FSU, ACC to mediation to settle suit

A Tallahassee judge has ordered Florida State and the ACC to enter mediation in hopes of settling a high-profile lawsuit that could dramatically impact the future of the league.

www.espn.com

OK… Can the ACC actually mediate? Do they have the authority to unilaterally make any decision regarding membership and the GOR at this point? I would think any mediation would have to somehow be backed by all of the members who have to agree to whatever modification to the GOR comes out of it. The ACC can’t unilaterally change the GOR agreement anymore than Florida State can. Am I missing something?

 

[RonJohn]

I'd tell the judge to go pound sand. FSU doesn't have enough money for me to let them out of the ACC until 2036 unless they want to go and leave their media rights. For me, it would be in the 10-figure range, and maybe not starting with a 1.

I'm betting the judge is an FSU guy. Mediation and negotiation are what FSU wanted in the first place.

Once again, I'm not a lawyer and don't frequently participate in lawsuits. However, I don't think court ordered mediation is an abnormal thing. Courts in general don't want to have to use court time to deal with private matters. There is heavy pressure put on parties to settle whatever dispute they have before going to trial. I think judges only want to go to trial if there is no other way to settle the dispute.

In this case, they haven't even finished the preliminary things yet. It isn't going to trial for quite some time yet. The judge ordered the parties to enter mediation within 120 days. Once they begin mediation, it might take some time to declare that mediation can't resolve the issue.

Also, one big thing to keep in mind: The deadline to announce departure from the ACC for 2025 is mid August. The deadline to begin mediation is August 20, which is after that deadline. The ACC doesn't even have to sit down at the mediator's table until after the deadline. That means that if FSU wants to be in another conference for the 2025 season, they will have to make the announcement before there is any resolution in this case. That means that they won't have a negotiated settlement before announcing, and would have to fight over damage claims that have already occurred instead of the current argument about potential damage claims.

Maybe @LawTalkin Jacket can let me know for sure, but it appears to me that this is all boring pre-trial procedural stuff that doesn't really mean very much. They haven't started arguing the merits of the case. I think fan forums, especially FSU fan boy posters, will try to read tea leaves and make bold predictions that one side or another is guaranteed to win because of this ruling. Maybe one side or the other gains a small advantage at this point in the trial, but there has not been any kind of Perry Mason moment. I think this is all stuff that lawyers see all the time, and it doesn't really have any real impact on the case as a whole.

 

[RonJohn]

OK… Can the ACC actually mediate? Do they have the authority to unilaterally make any decision regarding membership and the GOR at this point? I would think any mediation would have to somehow be backed by all of the members who have to agree to whatever modification to the GOR comes out of it. The ACC can’t unilaterally change the GOR agreement anymore than Florida State can. Am I missing something?

Only this quote from the judge:

"I send every case to mediation except mortgage foreclosures," Cooper said. "This is not being done any differently."

ESPN headlines might make it seem like this is the judge saying that they must come to an agreement, but it is normal procedure in lawsuits.

 

[CEB]

Only this quote from the judge:

ESPN headlines might make it seem like this is the judge saying that they must come to an agreement, but it is normal procedure in lawsuits.

I get that. The first criteria for mediation is getting decision-makers together. Mediation is worthless if the people in mediation aren’t decision-makers I am not sure the ACC is a decision maker in this case. All they can do is defend the agreement that is in place. They can’t make any modification to it without the agreement of all the other parties to it. For a mediation to truly work,would representatives from all of the ACC schools have to be present?

 

[bobongo]

I get that. The first criteria for mediation is getting decision-makers together. Mediation is worthless if the people in mediation aren’t decision-makers I am not sure the ACC is a decision maker in this case. All they can do is defend the agreement that is in place. They can’t make any modification to it without the agreement of all the other parties to it. For a mediation to truly work,would representatives from all of the ACC schools have to be present?

I don't see how the ACC could come to an agreement without all conference members signing on.
And besides that, any compromise would mean the end of the conference, so mediation is a dead end, it seems to me.

 

[RonJohn]

I get that. The first criteria for mediation is getting decision-makers together. Mediation is worthless if the people in mediation aren’t decision-makers I am not sure the ACC is a decision maker in this case. All they can do is defend the agreement that is in place. They can’t make any modification to it without the agreement of all the other parties to it. For a mediation to truly work,would representatives from all of the ACC schools have to be present?

Once again, the disclosure that I'm not a lawyer. I don't think mediation would require all of the parties that can sign off on an agreement to be present. If it did, then corporations would have a very hard time with court ordered mediation. Mediation doesn't have to be only one session or bust. They would have lawyers and representatives who know guidelines. If any offer was made by one side that hadn't been discussed previously, those in the mediation session would go back and review with all of the decision makers before the next session, which would probably be some time out so that those discussions could take place.

I agree with you that mediation is very, very unlikely to produce any resolution in this case.

As I pointed out earlier, this mediation order seems to have a negative impact on FSU more so than the ACC. The ACC doesn't even have to be at the mediation table until after the deadline for FSU to announce they are leaving the ACC for the 2025 season. If their goal is to negotiate, or get a court order that allows them to leave the ACC without losing their broadcast rights, it won't happen before the deadline this year.

 

[bobongo]

Once again, the disclosure that I'm not a lawyer. I don't think mediation would require all of the parties that can sign off on an agreement to be present. If it did, then corporations would have a very hard time with court ordered mediation.

But this is a conference, not a corporation. It doesn't seem to me the ACC brass could just negotiate on behalf of all the teams in the conference which signed the deal they're negotiating, even if they wanted to (which I doubt they do). Conference members would have grounds to then sue the ACC for abrogating the agreement they all signed, and it would carry a lot more weight than FSU's lawsuit. The ACC would go from the frying pan straight to the fire.

 

[Techster]

But this is a conference, not a corporation. It doesn't seem to me the ACC brass could just negotiate on behalf of all the teams in the conference which signed the deal they're negotiating, even if they wanted to (which I doubt they do).

There could be some type of "power of attorney" agreement, then there's also consent given by each school for the ACC to arbitrate for everyone, but the final agreement that comes out of arbitration must be approved and signed by each school. There are legal ways around it to expedite the process and save each school a lot of money.

 

[RonJohn]

But this is a conference, not a corporation. It doesn't seem to me the ACC brass could just negotiate on behalf of all the teams in the conference which signed the deal they're negotiating, even if they wanted to (which I doubt they do). Conference members would have grounds to then sue the ACC for abrogating the agreement they all signed, and it would carry a lot more weight than FSU's lawsuit. The ACC would go from the frying pan straight to the fire.

It happens all the time in corporations, with agents, with unions, etc.. People negotiate, but don't/can't agree to the negotiations. They then review the negotiations with the people who can approve, then go back to the negotiations.

But I think we are getting too far into the weeds of whether mediation can occur or not. The judge has ordered that the parties take part in mediation, so it will occur. I seriously doubt that mediation will resolve the issues, so it will go back to court.

 

[CEB]

It happens all the time in corporations, with agents, with unions, etc.. People negotiate, but don't/can't agree to the negotiations. They then review the negotiations with the people who can approve, then go back to the negotiations.

But I think we are getting too far into the weeds of whether mediation can occur or not. The judge has ordered that the parties take part in mediation, so it will occur. I seriously doubt that mediation will resolve the issues, so it will go back to court.

Yup.. everything you’re saying about corporations is true. you’re correct in your application of logic / tactics / organizational aspects of corporate entities. They have individuals and or boards empowered to make these decisions.

That is NOT the case with this… not by a long shot.

The GOR is what is ultimately at issue if FSU wants to leave. The GOR SPECIFICALLY states that it CAN NOT be modified except by unanimous decision of parties. The one exception is the addition of members who can agree to be bound by it without otherwise modifying it.

The ACC CAN NOT unilaterally relieve anyone from their GOR obligation. It must be unanimous. This is not like an appointed officer of a company who is empowered by the company to make decisions on their behalf. Therefore, the ACC can’t agree to anything regarding GOR without unanimous consent of the other ACC members. That is why I am questioning if the ACC is even ABLE to mediate their departure

 

[RonJohn]

The ACC CAN NOT unilaterally relieve anyone from their GOR obligation. It must be unanimous. This is not like an appointed officer of a company who is empowered by the company to make decisions on their behalf. Therefore, the ACC can’t agree to anything regarding GOR without unanimous consent of the other ACC members. That is why I am questioning if the ACC is even ABLE to mediate their departure

All I am saying is that they don't have to have every single university president in the room while the discussions are taking place. They can have discussions in the mediation and then take the result of those discussions out to the respective stakeholders to see if there is agreement. I seriously doubt that even the FSU president will be in the room. Will they come to an agreement that every ACC school would sign off on? I don't think so. However, they can have meetings with each other that are conducted by a mediator. The judge hasn't ordered the parties to come to an agreement in mediation. He has only ordered them to participate in mediation. He said that he does that in every single lawsuit, except for mortgage foreclosures. I agree with you that mediation is very unlikely to resolve the issue. I don't understand why you think having representatives attend mediation is impossible.

 

[CEB]

All I am saying is that they don't have to have every single university president in the room while the discussions are taking place. They can have discussions in the mediation and then take the result of those discussions out to the respective stakeholders to see if there is agreement. I seriously doubt that even the FSU president will be in the room. Will they come to an agreement that every ACC school would sign off on? I don't think so. However, they can have meetings with each other that are conducted by a mediator. The judge hasn't ordered the parties to come to an agreement in mediation. He has only ordered them to participate in mediation. He said that he does that in every single lawsuit, except for mortgage foreclosures. I agree with you that mediation is very unlikely to resolve the issue. I don't understand why you think having representatives attend mediation is impossible.

I don’t… I’m just saying the ACC ALONE can’t do anything with regard to GOR.
Could they make phone calls or invite some and call others? Sure, anything is possible… but why would they?
If only the ACC is required to mediate, it’s pointless exercise. If the ACC sits on their hands and says they are bound by ACC members (which they are), think FSU would name the other members to compel them to negotiate? That’ll be fun.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Once again, I'm not a lawyer and don't frequently participate in lawsuits. However, I don't think court ordered mediation is an abnormal thing. Courts in general don't want to have to use court time to deal with private matters. There is heavy pressure put on parties to settle whatever dispute they have before going to trial. I think judges only want to go to trial if there is no other way to settle the dispute.

In this case, they haven't even finished the preliminary things yet. It isn't going to trial for quite some time yet. The judge ordered the parties to enter mediation within 120 days. Once they begin mediation, it might take some time to declare that mediation can't resolve the issue.

Also, one big thing to keep in mind: The deadline to announce departure from the ACC for 2025 is mid August. The deadline to begin mediation is August 20, which is after that deadline. The ACC doesn't even have to sit down at the mediator's table until after the deadline. That means that if FSU wants to be in another conference for the 2025 season, they will have to make the announcement before there is any resolution in this case. That means that they won't have a negotiated settlement before announcing, and would have to fight over damage claims that have already occurred instead of the current argument about potential damage claims.

Maybe @LawTalkin Jacket can let me know for sure, but it appears to me that this is all boring pre-trial procedural stuff that doesn't really mean very much. They haven't started arguing the merits of the case. I think fan forums, especially FSU fan boy posters, will try to read tea leaves and make bold predictions that one side or another is guaranteed to win because of this ruling. Maybe one side or the other gains a small advantage at this point in the trial, but there has not been any kind of Perry Mason moment. I think this is all stuff that lawyers see all the time, and it doesn't really have any real impact on the case as a whole.

I've been involved with a ton of mediations. The ACC does not have to mediate. They can just say "there is no monetary value that will change the current situation." If the mediator doesn't see that there will be any potential resolution, it's over. Mediation occurs when the only thing between the disputing parties is the value. From what I've read, no valuation would make the ACC whole. Once the GoR is broken (necessary to let FSU out with their rights), the ACC would fall apart. The top teams would leave for other the B1G to the SEC (if they would be had) and the rest would become a G5-level conference.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Only this quote from the judge:

ESPN headlines might make it seem like this is the judge saying that they must come to an agreement, but it is normal procedure in lawsuits.

This is not binding. The judge can't do that. He can only push them into a room and make them talk. The ACC won't talk because the second they set a price (which I'm not sure they can), it's just negotiation then.