Conference Realignment

[cpf2001]

The boat hasn’t sunk yet!

I’m just not optimistic about the leagues ability to turn it around…

 

[ThatGuy]

All I want is better marketing. That’s it. Those years when the ACC has been better than the SEC I want us to act with the same swagger and bravado that the other major conferences act with. Instead of going all humble. In those years where we are clearly inferior I want us to do what the SEC does and talk about how we beat each other up, or how our rivalries are so strong that our out of conference games don’t mean as much.

You know what I’m talking about. We could even put our own spin on it about how our athletes face the toughest gauntlet of all, both on the field, or on the court, and in the classroom.

Mostly I just want to see a marketing presence. The SEC show up in my news feed, my tv ads, and everywhere I look. The ACC only shows up where I am specifically looking for them.

That’s what I want. And you can tell me all the reasons why this can’t be, or we shouldn’t expect it, but that’s what I want. And I think FSU and Clemson want that especially because, in their cases, it holds them back financially, in recruiting, and in getting national respect.

Agreed.

In the political world, if you say something enough times, the public starts to accept it. As long as it's got some link to reality, all it takes is time and consistency. First it starts with your own base, who are predisposed to agree - and then it extends to many in the other-leaning audiences. The press picks up on it, and pretty soon the media is talking about it like it is a known, accepted fact.

To restate what's been said, the SEC leadership for years has been on a PR and marketing offensive, doing just what was said above. Which, candidly, is good business. I've mentioned the Acquired podcast episode on the NFL a few times, and it's relevant here, too - one of the key things past NFL commissioners did was to get all the team owners to understand that the sum is greater than the individual parts. By doing things that make the NFL stronger, they make themselves stronger, and make themselves more money.

That's the same thing we've seen in the SEC, from their teams. They often talk trash about individual programs, but when talking about the conference they always toe the line that "we're the best." They recognize that this rising tide will lift all their ships, so they continue to contribute to that rising tide.

We've seen efforts to do the same in our own conference from those who "get it." Heck, our own head coach has tried on multiple occasions to advance that narrative - which IMO is exactly the right thing to do. If every coach on every ACC team would beat this drum, the media narrative would shift. But instead we have teams like Florida State seeking to undermine everyone else for their own gain.

And the key here is, it all starts at the top. We've had a string of commissioners who are good businesspeople, but who don't understand the necessity of playing the PR game. I personally think Jim Phillips is a good Commissioner - I think he's doing more than we see. He just prefers to do it in 1-to-1 conversations and relationships, rather than getting in front of the camera and preaching. I firmly believe that a lot of spirited conversations were happening behind the scenes when FSU was left out of the playoff. He just wasn't going to get on a soapbox publicly and start yelling about hellfire and damnation.

Problem is, as other conferences have upped their game, that's now a crucial part of the job. You have to sculpt the public perception. I hate to say it, but you need a little bit more of our former head coach's approach in crafting an identity as a conference (the difference being that the ACC, as a conference, can back up the assertions).

All of this is to say, there's no easy answer. But in an ideal world, the ACC would have a leader who recognizes that in this day and age of media, he's not just a dealmaker - he's also a public face of the conference. Which means he needs to develop a compelling identity for the conference, and then be out there shaping perceptions at every chance he gets. Until that happens, the SEC will keep repeating the same thing they've been repeating for years, and the public and media will continue to nod along.

 

[Vespidae]

If every coach on every ACC team would beat this drum, the media narrative would shift.

The media narrative is not going to shift. Why would it? The media is targeting a message to its largest segment … which is what it is supposed to do.

As to the ACC, you advertise to message your point of differentiation and why it represents good value. The SEC has owned “path to the League” for the last 20 years, which is why it’s attractive to recruits.

If you don’t own that, what is your compelling message?

 

[cpf2001]

I went back and looked at Alabama‘s schedule last year re: Meyer being sloppy.

Seems like Texas put up more points than anyone else. Dropped 21 points in the fourth quarter against a majestic SEC defense.

Texas is a big damn school. Oklahoma is big too. There’s no reason for ESPN to be invested in talking a book against them. They’re even already part of the SEC, talking it up like “boy this is gonna be fun to see what the rest of the league does to adjust to some new offenses” isn’t off-script.

Meyer was just being lazy with a bad take.

The lazy reporter takes what he’s told and repeats it. And the ACC gives out lots of self-inflicted bad-PR for reporters to repeat.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

All you have to do is look at how the ACC handled FSU being left out (an undefeated conference champ). That is a perfect example of totaling letting your conference flap in the wind. The league office did the absolute bare minimun. A tweet by the commish and then a ACCNetwork interview while he was sitting in his car at his kids soccer game. If the SEC would have been left out, how do you think they would have responded? It would have been Defcon level 4 of a media blitz and repercussions. And that’s why the committee didn’t leave them out. They took the easy path to leave the ACC out because they knew they take a couple of days of heat and then nothing. It’s why the ACC is going to be totally hosed in this 12 team playoff. We’ll get our champ in and that’s it so when Louisville, GT, VT, UNC, or others have an outstanding year they’ll be relegated to a late December bowl against a 3 loss team.

And you turn it around thru the media. Winning is one part, but Kramer, Slive, and Sankey have consistently over 30 years used the media whether their statements were true or false. It’s called setting the narrative. The ACC has no clue how to do that which is why no one gives a second thought on leaving our teams out of anything or putting us in crappy time slots. But when they see Sankey‘s number pop up on their cell phone they grovel.

 

[Vespidae]

But the ACC and B12 are in the same boat according to many. Both are sinking. If so, what does it ultimately matter if we're 3rd or 4th?

The ACC is not sinking. Its generating more revenue than it ever has, it’s just doing so at a slower growth rate.

The ACC is not going to overtake either of the P2 conferences. Which means it’s going to have define itself for what it is. You have a group of mostly smaller, urban schools competing against each other … with modestly sized fan bases.

That‘s reality and that’s what makes many uncomfortable.

 

[Vespidae]

I went back and looked at Alabama‘s schedule last year re: Meyer being sloppy.

Seems like Texas put up more points than anyone else. Dropped 21 points in the fourth quarter against a majestic SEC defense.

Texas is a big damn school. Oklahoma is big too. There’s no reason for ESPN to be invested in talking a book against them. They’re even already part of the SEC, talking it up like “boy this is gonna be fun to see what the rest of the league does to adjust to some new offenses” isn’t off-script.

Meyer was just being lazy with a bad take.

The lazy reporter takes what he’s told and repeats it. And the ACC gives out lots of self-inflicted bad-PR for reporters to repeat.

Last time I checked, Steve Sarkisian is the Texas HC and coached as OC in the SEC. I wonder if he took any of that to Texas?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think it’s the other way around. Better talent enabled better marketing.

Maybe.

I’m still hung up on the chicken and egg question. It seems that better marketing leads to better recruits, rinse, repeat.

You’ve done the research so you would know better but, anecdotally at least, it seems to me that even draft picks alone don’t tell the whole story. Some players are elite in college but average at best in the NFL, or even flops. So, Pat Sullivan was one of Auburn’s greatest football players and a Heisman trophy players, but he was not NFL material. But after you “waste” a draft pick on someone like that, or even a Tim Tibow, you let them stick it out in the league longer than you would a low draft pick.

Some college teams develop a reputation and, over time, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Think Southern Cal as running back U, Or linemen from Ohio State or Penn State, or, in more recent years, any player from Alabama.

So, I guess, for me, draft picks alone are not a complete picture with regard to our discussion of SEC hype. Did marketing help attract better recruits? What about great college players who are the best at that level but not NFL material? What about the reputation of a particular school that becomes the deciding factor in determining who to draft? And how do we weigh players that are NFL flops vs journeymen players with long careers vs All Pro for most of their careers?

These are rhetorical questions and not meant to be answered necessarily. I think having a lot of players from a conference drafted is a significant and important piece of the conversation. But I’m not sure what point it validates specifically. Is it that the rich get richer? Is it that marketing works over the long haul to attract better athletes? I don’t know.

 

[Vespidae]

All you have to do is look at how the ACC handled FSU being left out (an undefeated conference champ). That is a perfect example of totaling letting your conference flap in the wind. The league office did the absolute bare minimun. A tweet by the commish and then a ACCNetwork interview while he was sitting in his car at his kids soccer game. If the SEC would have been left out, how do you think they would have responded? It would have been Defcon level 4 of a media blitz and repercussions. And that’s why the committee didn’t leave them out. They took the easy path to leave the ACC out because they knew they take a couple of days of heat and then nothing. It’s why the ACC is going to be totally hosed in this 12 team playoff. We’ll get our champ in and that’s it so when Louisville, GT, VT, UNC, or others have an outstanding year they’ll be relegated to a late December bowl against a 3 loss team.

And you turn it around thru the media. Winning is one part, but Kramer, Slive, and Sankey have consistently over 30 years used the media whether their statements were true or false. It’s called setting the narrative. The ACC has no clue how to do that which is why no one gives a second thought on leaving our teams out of anything or putting us in crappy time slots. But when they see Sankey‘s number pop up on their cell phone they grovel.

The media takes Sankey’s call because there is demand (ratings) for his organization’ product. It‘s that simple.

 

[cpf2001]

Last time I checked, Steve Sarkisian is the Texas HC and coached as OC in the SEC. I wonder if he took any of that to Texas?

He was an Alabama assistant for three years after spending a decade in the PAC, mostly as a HC. This isn’t some long time disciple of SEC greatness bringing offense to UT. This is a west coast offense-oriented guy who benefited from the Nick Saban Rehab Program and then put up a bunch of points of Saban’s own defense.

Hey, too bad Urban Meyer doesn’t know any of that, and just knows that going from Utah to Florida was a big change!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Last time I checked, Steve Sarkisian is the Texas HC and coached as OC in the SEC. I wonder if he took any of that to Texas?

Probably, but that’s not the debate, is it? Coaches move around. So? I know Alabama worried for about two seasons as to whether a Michigan State coach could handle the SEC and they are perhaps equally apprehensive about what a Washington coach can handle it. But this is partly the case of drinking your own KoolAid.

 

[cpf2001]

Here’s why the Meyer thing is extremely relevant: the ACC can’t really even take Vespidae’s advice to find and sell their own thing to solidify third place as long as media figures are just gonna do things like this “everyone outside the SEC is the same, trust me, I was at Utah” false equivalency.

There’s a big uphill climb to get to even “the ACC is in third place” from that “nobody outside the big 2 is relevant” POV.

“The ACC is competent” alone, not even having its own thing, would be a HUGE improvement over what we’ve seen the last decade.

 

[Vespidae]

Did marketing help attract better recruits?

Somewhat true, somewhat.

Alabama’s recruiting message for 17 years has been, “Give me 4 years and you will get to the League and its 80% that you will be drafted in the first two rounds and make $30 million.”

The NFL does all sorts of tests, by position, for strength, agility, speed, etc. If they got drafted, they were probably among the best THAT year, but perhaps not the best across years. So you lose to a better player ahead of you or behind you.

The first rule in marketing is have a good product. Then, promote it. The SEC had a good product in 1980. They have a great product in a media-based environment. Sankey understands this and has stated his goal a number of times and it’s working.

Honestly, I don’t know what the ACC offers. For years, the West Coast offense allowed schools like SDSU and Stanford to recruit great talent, but what’s the ACC equivalent? I’m not sure … what I hear mostly is “good education”. Great. But that’s not enough. Not today. If you still want to be relevant (make the playoffs) today.

 

[Vespidae]

He was an Alabama assistant for three years after spending a decade in the PAC, mostly as a HC. This isn’t some long time disciple of SEC greatness bringing offense to UT. This is a west coast offense-oriented guy who benefited from the Nick Saban Rehab Program and then put up a bunch of points of Saban’s own defense.

Hey, too bad Urban Meyer doesn’t know any of that, and just knows that going from Utah to Florida was a big change!

Let’s make a GTSwarm rule that we won’t consider anyone reliable who ever played or coached college football on any level.

 

[cpf2001]

Let’s make a GTSwarm rule that we won’t consider anyone reliable who ever played or coached college football on any level.

Imma take that as conceding the point about Meyer having a lazy take then

 

[Vespidae]

Probably, but that’s not the debate, is it? Coaches move around. So? I know Alabama worried for about two seasons as to whether a Michigan State coach could handle the SEC and they are perhaps equally apprehensive about what a Washington coach can handle it. But this is partly the case of drinking your own KoolAid.

Saban had already coached LSU to a national championship before he got to Tuscaloosa.

Auburn’s Harsin got fired of course, but after his first year, said he had never seen a team get manhandled the way he saw the Dawgs do it to the Tigers. This from a 10 win guy for a number of years.

I don’t think you can blow it off when other coaches, especially those not from the SEC, consistently say it. You’re competing against very good athletes.

 

[Vespidae]

Imma take that as conceding the point about Meyer having a lazy take then

If you don’t take Meyer seriously, just turn the sound down.

 

[cpf2001]

If you don’t take Meyer seriously, just turn the sound down.

Still not what I said.

I said he had a lazy take by comparing Utah -> Florida in 2005 to OU/TX joining the SEC this year.

No need to try to read more into it than that.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

All you have to do is look at how the ACC handled FSU being left out (an undefeated conference champ). That is a perfect example of totaling letting your conference flap in the wind. The league office did the absolute bare minimun. A tweet by the commish and then a ACCNetwork interview while he was sitting in his car at his kids soccer game. If the SEC would have been left out, how do you think they would have responded? It would have been Defcon level 4 of a media blitz and repercussions. And that’s why the committee didn’t leave them out. They took the easy path to leave the ACC out because they knew they take a couple of days of heat and then nothing. It’s why the ACC is going to be totally hosed in this 12 team playoff. We’ll get our champ in and that’s it so when Louisville, GT, VT, UNC, or others have an outstanding year they’ll be relegated to a late December bowl against a 3 loss team.

And you turn it around thru the media. Winning is one part, but Kramer, Slive, and Sankey have consistently over 30 years used the media whether their statements were true or false. It’s called setting the narrative. The ACC has no clue how to do that which is why no one gives a second thought on leaving our teams out of anything or putting us in crappy time slots. But when they see Sankey‘s number pop up on their cell phone they grovel.

This rings true to me.

We’ve seen in the past how the SEC responds to a perceived slight. They go nuclear. Big press conferences, lawyers, state house legislators weighing in, whatever it takes they will use it to say, “If you don’t want this stink all over you, you better at least listen to us and give us a favorable cover story.” It’s all about saving the public image they’ve cultivated.

Anyone remember how Vince Dooley responded after the Jasper Sanks fumble and the Tech win? He wanted the refs investigated. He called for public hearings. He wanted legal action. At the time I almost felt bad for Dooley because I thought he had publicly humiliated himself by throwing such a childish tantrum. Naive of me. This is the SEC playbook and it works.

FSU learned the lesson well and, as disgusting as it is to me, I understand it.

 

[Vespidae]

Still not what I said.

I said he had a lazy take by comparing Utah -> Florida in 2005 to OU/TX joining the SEC this year.

No need to try to read more into it than that.

Let’s come back to it. I’m eager to watch Oklahoma play in Tuscaloosa with 90% humidity.