Conference Realignment

[SOWEGA Jacket]

It’s an established fact that FSU stopped investing in its athletic program.

Your theory on Sankey’s decision is equally incorrect. Sankey himself described it as a challenge from Scott Stricklin, AD at Florida, who asked, “If the SEC means more, why don’t we get teams where it just means more?”

Combined, the two programs have 110 national championships across all sports. THAT is why Sankey agreed to pursue them.

FSU made a conscious decision to de-emphasize its investment in athletics and that wasn’t 40 years ago. It began around 2015 and that leadership has been completely replaced. Does the ACC manage that? No, they have to put up with it the same way Florida has to put up with the tough stretch they are experiencing.

As to the ACC, I find it hilarious that you speak of “ACC fans” in the same thread as those calling for Tech to join any conferences but the ACC.

So the ACC has fallen because FSU (who just went undefeated in ACC play) stopped investing in athletics? Good gracious do you not understand how silly that sounds? The ACC has fallen to a 3rd tier conference because the leadership lacked vision and a plan over a multi decade time period. The current regime is still following that path. There is no plan whatsoever except to force teams to stay via the GOR and then when the GOR ends they will all retire because the conference will end. That’s the current plan.

 

[Richard7125]

This has been discussed. I would not be surprised if the new Big Ten/SEC collaborative does exactly this. What I have heard is that criteria will be introduced that requires a certain stadium capacity and average attendance, viewership, enrollment, athletic budget, etc ... that elevates 30-ish programs. Those will qualify for expanded financial opportunities. Others will simply get some standard payout as a simple conference member, but not much beyond that.

Vandy, for example, would get a standard payout for appearing on the SEC Network (just like MS State, South Carolina, etc) and substantially more if on a premier network ... ABC, ESPN, etc and also more for post season. That's not likely to happen, but it could.

It will, as you say, reward those who are continually improving to better play and more attractive fans, but not penalize them if they don't. Water seeks its own level.

I could see the super-factories (ie Bama, UGA, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan, OSU, USC, Notre Dame, FSU, and Clemson) coordinating their out of conference games and selling that to the highest bidder. That would be additive revenue to their current SEC/Big10/ACC/Big12 media contracts. Think of it similarly to the ACC/Big10 basketball competition. I could see promotion/relegation based on some type of performance but for the most part it will only include the biggest/richest programs and not include the football paupers (ie Vandy’s, Northwestern’s and Rutgers). I think you would have fewer teams than more teams.

 

[Vespidae]

So the ACC has fallen because FSU (who just went undefeated in ACC play) stopped investing in athletics?

Where did I say that? I didn’t.

The ACC hasn’t “fallen”. It is growing. It is simply growing at slower rate than the B1G and the SEC. HAD FSU and Miami maintained their status, that gap would not be as dramatic as it is today. It is the GAP that both Clemson and FSU are unhappy about.

BTW, the whole reason Miami and FSU were pursued and added was for that exact reason, i.e., to enhance media value. That they both hit the skids reduced negotiating leverage.

It‘s like the fat lady who is unhappy with her better looking sister’s sex life.

 

[stech81]

It‘s like the fat lady who is unhappy with her better looking sister’s sex life.

I'm going to need a name and phone number.

 

[slugboy]

So the ACC has fallen because FSU (who just went undefeated in ACC play) stopped investing in athletics? Good gracious do you not understand how silly that sounds? The ACC has fallen to a 3rd tier conference because the leadership lacked vision and a plan over a multi decade time period. The current regime is still following that path. There is no plan whatsoever except to force teams to stay via the GOR and then when the GOR ends they will all retire because the conference will end. That’s the current plan.

It’s not just FSU, but FSU is a big factor. As Clemson rose, FSU went from a reliable top 20 team that was a frequent title contender to a team that was unranked at the year for about half a decade. Unfortunately, that decline timed in almost perfectly with the CFP. The SEC has been occasionally putting two teams in the CFP.

If FSU maintained their peak under Fisher (who needed to be replaced, but with a better coach), then the ACC is occasionally putting two teams in the CFP, making a ton of money, and at worst the description of the conference is “top heavy”.

If Miami and VT had maintained a level of excellence, then there’s an argument for the best football conference.

To add insult to injury, the rest of the conference carried an FSU boat anchor for years, and as soon as they got healthier they wanted out (ungrateful).

Tech falling off in football and basketball also hurt the conference, but not as much as VT, FSU, and Miami.

The AP Post column is the one to look at.

			Over				Conf				SRS		Poll
Rk	Year	Conf	W	L	T	Pct	W	L	T	Pct	SRS	SOS	AP Pre	AP High	AP Post	CFP High	CFP Final	Coach(es)	Bowl	Notes
1	2023	ACC	13	1	0	.929	9	0	0	1.000	16.51	2.94	8	3	6	4	5	Mike Norvell (13-1)	Orange Bowl (L)
2	2022	ACC	10	3	0	.769	5	3	0	.625	14.77	3.38		11	11	13	13	Mike Norvell (10-3)	Cheez-It Bowl (W)
3	2021	ACC	5	7	0	.417	4	4	0	.500	0.64	2.22						Mike Norvell (5-7)
4	2020	ACC	3	6	0	.333	2	6	0	.250	-8.87	-1.54						Mike Norvell (3-6)
5	2019	ACC	6	7	0	.462	4	4	0	.500	1.78	2.32						Willie Taggart (4-5) Odell Haggins (2-2)	Sun Bowl (L)
6	2018	ACC	5	7	0	.417	3	5	0	.375	-1.67	4.92	19	19				Willie Taggart (5-7)
7	2017	ACC	7	6	0	.538	3	5	0	.375	8.07	5.76	3	3				Jimbo Fisher (5-6) Odell Haggins (2-0)	Independence Bowl (W)
8	2016	ACC	10	3	0	.769	5	3	0	.625	15.01	6.16	4	2	8	11	11	Jimbo Fisher (10-3)	Orange Bowl (W)
9	2015	ACC	10	3	0	.769	6	2	0	.750	13.59	1.97	10	9	14	9	9	Jimbo Fisher (10-3)	Peach Bowl (L)
10	2014	ACC	13	1	0	.929	8	0	0	1.000	14.48	5.13	1	1	5	2	3	Jimbo Fisher (13-1)	Rose Bowl (L)
11	2013	ACC	14	0	0	1.000	8	0	0	1.000	23.36	1.29	11	1	1			Jimbo Fisher (14-0)	BCS Championship (W)	National Championships: AP BCS FWAA NFF USA
12	2012	ACC	12	2	0	.857	7	1	0	.875	13.56	-0.66	7	3	10			Jimbo Fisher (12-2)	Orange Bowl (W)
13	2011	ACC	9	4	0	.692	5	3	0	.625	11.22	0.38	6	5	23			Jimbo Fisher (9-4)	Champs Sports Bowl (W)
14	2010	ACC	10	4	0	.714	6	2	0	.750	14.20	5.06	20	16	17			Jimbo Fisher (10-4)	Chick-fil-A Bowl (W)
15	2009	ACC	7	6	0	.538	4	4	0	.500	6.08	5.38	18	18				Bobby Bowden (7-6)	Gator Bowl (W)

Provided by CFB at Sports Reference: View Original Table
Generated 7/27/2024.

 

[LT 1967]

B1G Commissioner's comments on expansion below. He gives basically the same message as SEC's Sankey saying they are focused on their current 18 schools. He did note how important the Academic Reputation of the new arrivals were to the B1G Presidents. Maybe that gives hope to GT if the ACC collapses in 2 or 3 years.

He also mentioned that the B1G would likely move their Championships around the country to involve all the B1G markets.

MSN

 

[LT 1967]

The "House" settlement is going to the Judge for approval. This article gives some more detail concerning projected revenue per player in football, basketball, etc.

Sounds like this settlement could go into effect in 2025-26. However, appeals may drag it out per the article.

MSN

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Where did I say that? I didn’t.

It‘s your first line. You said, and I quote, “It’s an established fact that FSU stopped investing in its athletic program”. That’s what you said. I didn’t make that up. I even re-quoted it.

As to the bigger point, if the ACC front office is living off 1 team in football and Duke/Carolina hoops to be a legit conference then we are doomed by our leaders. No other conference does it that way. Calipari just left Kentucky for Arkansas. Tennessee just won their first baseball title. The ACC leaders need to promote ALL programs. Instead they do nothing while we get left out of the playoff and then spend the entire off season doing nothing. Sure, Phillips stuck his head out of the sand for ACC week but, poof, he’s gone now and won’t be seen again.

 

[Vespidae]

It‘s your first line. You said, and I quote, “It’s an established fact that FSU stopped investing in its athletic program”. That’s what you said. I didn’t make that up. I even re-quoted it.

As to the bigger point, if the ACC front office is living off 1 team in football and Duke/Carolina hoops to be a legit conference then we are doomed by our leaders. No other conference does it that way. Calipari just left Kentucky for Arkansas. Tennessee just won their first baseball title. The ACC leaders need to promote ALL programs. Instead they do nothing while we get left out of the playoff and then spend the entire off season doing nothing. Sure, Phillips stuck his head out of the sand for ACC week but, poof, he’s gone now and won’t be seen again.

That’s correct. They did. Thanks for reiterating the obvious facts.

Re the ACC, why don’t you call them and share your thoughts?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

That’s correct. They did. Thanks for reiterating the obvious facts.

Re the ACC, why don’t you call them and share your thoughts?

I have no ties and no influence with them. I’m just a GT fan on a message board. They will do whatever they want and I’ll live with it. But, since we have this platform of discussion and opinion I’ll keep giving mine.

And if FSU is cutting their investment in their athletics, I’d hate see them when they are pumping money into them seeing how they just went undefeated in the ACC. I guess it shows how weak and feeble the ACC is when a team not even trying goes undefeated.

 

[Vespidae]

I have no ties and no influence with them. I’m just a GT fan on a message board. They will do whatever they want and I’ll live with it. But, since we have this platform of discussion and opinion I’ll keep giving mine.

And if FSU is cutting their investment in their athletics, I’d hate see them when they are pumping money into them seeing how they just went undefeated in the ACC. I guess it shows how weak and feeble the ACC is when a team not even trying goes undefeated.

It’s not “IF”, they did. Scott Woodward cited this fact when he was AD at TAMU and made the decision to go after Jimbo. FSU was running deficits in their program and began cutting budgets in 2015. Thrasher, then FSU president, turned down requests to approve capital investment in facilities and upgrades. That’s when FSU started sliding backward.

If I follow your logic, that’s a reflection on ACC leadership, when the reality is FSU made that decision in its own. I think it’s important to understand what the conference can influence given the constraints established by its members.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

So a team that cut its budget went undefeated and won the conference. What an indictment of this conference. No wonder it’s in its last stages and teams want to leave.

 

[Vespidae]

You should keep up with current events. Thrasher retired. The new administration is investing.

FSU said it wants to leave because it can make more money. Simple.

 

[MacDaddy2]

I agree.

They had 328 passing years in their final three games, combined. Without Travis they were pedestrian and unworthy for the playoffs UNLESS they changed to the TO and I am misremembering

 

[iceeater1969]

They had 328 passing years in their final three games, combined. Without Travis they were pedestrian and unworthy for the playoffs UNLESS they changed to the TO and I am misremembering

You are right.
AND
The advertisers said we will never invite a TCU Cinderella to the CFP.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Especially when college football games become a PPV event. To me, that's where the SEC is headed.

I was thinking about this yesterday after having watched the Olympic opening ceremony and then reading some of the subsequent criticisms of it.

Most public events, especially sports, were staged for the spectators, and those watching on TV understood that they were kind of eavesdropping on an event at which they were not present for the “full effect.” It honestly didn’t matter how well produced it was or viewer friendly, we were just glad to have any glimpse of it. Think “first step on the moon” coverage.

Now these same public events are supposed to be staged for the TV audience. Cameras are no longer peeking in on “someone else’s experience” but rather the whole event can end up feeling like it was staged just for me in my den. I will claim the whole event was a success or a failure based on how it played at home.

College football really is being geared more and more for the home viewer, in many ways. Having to pay for all this packaging that was aimed just at us is the logical next step.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So a team that cut its budget went undefeated and won the conference. What an indictment of this conference. No wonder it’s in its last stages and teams want to leave.

You're either being intentionally obtuse or your reading comprehension is failing you. FSU cut their budget. Their team suffered for it. The AD retired and the new AD is putting money back into the program. Now FSU is doing well again. These are all facts. You can argue about whether the money was the difference maker in their records, but the above facts remain. Before you concoct your next "hot take" and hurl it like an insult, you should check the facts beforehand.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You got me Augusta. I now agree that the ACC has become a joke of a conference because of FSU. It’s all FSU’s fault. If only FSU would have won more than 16 out of 32 conference titles since they joined the ACC we‘d be right up there with the SEC and BIG. I say we sue them for false advertising. Any team that only wins 50% of the conference titles isn’t good enough for us.

 

[CEB]

You got me Augusta. I now agree that the ACC has become a joke of a conference because of FSU. It’s all FSU’s fault. If only FSU would have won more than 16 out of 32 conference titles since they joined the ACC we‘d be right up there with the SEC and BIG. I say we sue them for false advertising. Any team that only wins 50% of the conference titles isn’t good enough for us.

So…. You’re going with intentionally obtuse?

 

[Vespidae]

You got me Augusta. I now agree that the ACC has become a joke of a conference because of FSU. It’s all FSU’s fault. If only FSU would have won more than 16 out of 32 conference titles since they joined the ACC we‘d be right up there with the SEC and BIG. I say we sue them for false advertising. Any team that only wins 50% of the conference titles isn’t good enough for us.

Intentionally obtuse.