Conference Realignment

[AugustaSwarm]

I think there is a legal argument to be made that the language in the GOR is dependent on the ESPN contract. However, that doesn't mean that it is definite that the GOR doesn't apply if the contract is cancelled. It just means that someone can make a legal argument in court. Winning that case is a different thing.

FSU claimed that ESPN can simply walk away in January of next year. Random people have speculated that an argument can be made that the GOR would become unenforceable if there is no ESPN contract. There has been no confirmation that ESPN can just walk away from the entire contract. ESPN doesn't want the contract details to be public. ESPN isn't talking about any details of the contract. The ACC isn't talking about any details of the contract. FSU stopped talking about details of the contract after pressure from ESPN. As such, nobody in the public actually knows if such a clause exists in the contract.

The sites click bait sites you see are just people spouting off what they have read on message boards. Such people take the possibility that ESPN has an option to cancel the ACC contract, and just simply believe it with zero confirmation. Such people take the possibility that someone could argue in court that the GOR depends on the ESPN contract and believe that the GOR just spontaneously combusts if there is no ESPN contract. They then say things like "ESPN is cancelling the ACC contract in January, the GOR will end, and FSU will be in the Big10 in 2025". Some people just believe those statements. The big issue to me is that such "reporting" is never called out. The swaim guy kept saying last year (2023) that FSU is announcing the departure from the ACC next Friday. Then two weeks from tomorrow. Then on such and such a date. People kept repeating him over and over again even though he was wrong every time. If he ever gets something correct, people will froth over him and talk about how he knew what was going to happen. They never remember the 10s or 100s of times that he is completely wrong.

EDIT: One thing I neglected to say. If FSU knew that ESPN has such an option and plan to cancel the contract next January, and they know that the GOR is invalid once the contract is cancelled, then why file a lawsuit last December? Why publish NDA information about the ESPN contract? Why have the Florida AG antagonize ESPN? They could have placated their fans for one year, and then left the easy way, and the lawsuit doesn't really mean anything under that scenario.

The reason that FSU and Clemson and whoever else haven't done anything yet is because none of that has any legal standing. The GoR aren't dependent on an ESPN contract - in fact, the GoR SHOULDN'T be dependent on ESPN and would show a lack of fiduciary action by the ACC if it did.

The ACC, as the holder of the collective media rights, must be able to negotiate with the various broadcast entities to perform their fiduciary responsibility. I'm sure there is a mechanism for each party (the ACC and ESPN) to cancel the contract, but each side likely is due a payout if the other party cancels early. So neither side is willing to be the first to start the conversations.

The ACC is likely stuck with its current contract. It was structured in a way to make it financial painful to break. All the speculation is nothing more than that. If FSU wants out, the contract clearly lays out the terms.

 

[Vespidae]

The reason that FSU and Clemson and whoever else haven't done anything yet is because none of that has any legal standing. The GoR aren't dependent on an ESPN contract - in fact, the GoR SHOULDN'T be dependent on ESPN and would show a lack of fiduciary action by the ACC if it did.

The ACC, as the holder of the collective media rights, must be able to negotiate with the various broadcast entities to perform their fiduciary responsibility. I'm sure there is a mechanism for each party (the ACC and ESPN) to cancel the contract, but each side likely is due a payout if the other party cancels early. So neither side is willing to be the first to start the conversations.

The ACC is likely stuck with its current contract. It was structured in a way to make it financial painful to break. All the speculation is nothing more than that. If FSU wants out, the contract clearly lays out the terms.

Exactly. And … ESPN did not want to participate in the creation of the ACCN. The league wanted it and ESPN’s requirement was the GOR. If ESPN doesn’t renew (and there’s no reason they wouldn’t… it is profitable, just not SEC profitable), the ACCN still exists and has to be dealt with.

It’s June. FSU has to decide in 60 days to leave or stay. I’m betting they stay. The ACC legal strategy is delay, delay, delay.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

Exactly. And … ESPN did not want to participate in the creation of the ACCN. The league wanted it and ESPN’s requirement was the GOR. If ESPN doesn’t renew (and there’s no reason they wouldn’t… it is profitable, just not SEC profitable), the ACCN still exists and has to be dealt with.

It’s June. FSU has to decide in 60 days to leave or stay. I’m betting they stay. The ACC legal strategy is delay, delay, delay.

The ACC doesn't need to do anything. If FSU ponies up the money, the ACC gets a pay day from FSU. If FSU doesn't leave, the ACC gets paid by the ESPN contract. Either way, the ACC gets paid.

FSU's dispute likely won't go far, and realistically, the best they can hope for is to alter the terms of the agreement thru mediation. There's no incentive for the ACC to do anything, so it's not likely to proceed quickly.

 

[RonJohn]

.... The GoR aren't dependent on an ESPN contract - in fact, the GoR SHOULDN'T be dependent on ESPN and would show a lack of fiduciary action by the ACC if it did. .....

From the GOR document:

Each of the Member Institutions hereby (a) irrevocably and exclusively grants to the Conference during the Term (as defined below) all rights (the "Rights") necessary for the Conference to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth in the ESPN Agreement,...

The ESPN contract is specifically called out in the GOR document. I think this language is a grant of rights for the things that are necessary to carry out a media contract, and specifically those things that are listed in the ESPN contract. I think that if the ESPN contract was cancelled, the document would still exist, and those obligations would still be covered by the GOR, so it would not negate the GOR. However, I am not a lawyer. I think a lawyer could make a strong argument that the GOR requires the ESPN Agreement because it is specifically listed in the GOR document. I think two lawyers could make strong arguments in both directions. It would take a court case to make a determination.

However, even with that said, I am not convinced that the completely quit the ACC option actually exists. I am not so certain as the YouTube and Twitter people that ESPN would drop the ACC even if it does have such an option. I do think that something will change by the early 2030s, but I think it will be a much larger change in the college landscape than just teams exiting the ACC.

 

[CEB]

From the GOR document:


The ESPN contract is specifically called out in the GOR document. I think this language is a grant of rights for the things that are necessary to carry out a media contract, and specifically those things that are listed in the ESPN contract. I think that if the ESPN contract was cancelled, the document would still exist, and those obligations would still be covered by the GOR, so it would not negate the GOR. However, I am not a lawyer. I think a lawyer could make a strong argument that the GOR requires the ESPN Agreement because it is specifically listed in the GOR document. I think two lawyers could make strong arguments in both directions. It would take a court case to make a determination.

However, even with that said, I am not convinced that the completely quit the ACC option actually exists. I am not so certain as the YouTube and Twitter people that ESPN would drop the ACC even if it does have such an option. I do think that something will change by the early 2030s, but I think it will be a much larger change in the college landscape than just teams exiting the ACC.

I’m right here with you. Although I believe the intent is to be rock solid through 2036, the wording WRT the ESPN deal is just unfortunate enough to give people an argument… of course back when this was all done, I’m sure no one contemplated a scenario where ESPN would or could leave so long as membership and GOR was intact. The reference to the ESPN deal was probably pretty innocuous.

 

[CEB]

The ACC doesn't need to do anything. If FSU ponies up the money, the ACC gets a pay day from FSU. If FSU doesn't leave, the ACC gets paid by the ESPN contract. Either way, the ACC gets paid.

FSU's dispute likely won't go far, and realistically, the best they can hope for is to alter the terms of the agreement thru mediation. There's no incentive for the ACC to do anything, so it's not likely to proceed quickly.

Add to that, if there really is an all or nothing decision for ESPN next year, the ACC would not want to have any appearance of letting FSU go. Even if FSU came up with huge money to leave, there is no benefit to showing any signs of willingness to negotiate before you have an ESPN commitment.
I’m sure ESPN knows more inside info than we do, of course, but I can’t see any benefit for the ACC to even give a hint of an inkling of an iota of entertaining FSUs departure.

 

[RonJohn]

Does anyone still think the ACC GOR has power outside of the ESPN ACC tv deal? I see some click sites saying its solely for the TV deal.

I saw a tweet this evening that says :

"Put simply, the Grant of Rights Agreement is not, as the ACC has claimed, a blanket grant of rights. It is explicitly limited by the ESPN Agreements."

He posted some arguments form a court filing that the Florida AG made. However, none of the parts of the document he posted say anything like what he said. The filing is arguing that the ESPN contract should be available to FSU and to the state. It says that the ESPN contract is crucial to the FSU case. It does not say that the GOR is invalid if the ESPN contract dies. Apparently the person who put out that tweet doesn't actual understand English language content. They only read a few words, and understand whatever they want those words to mean.

 

[CEB]

I saw a tweet this evening that says :


He posted some arguments form a court filing that the Florida AG made. However, none of the parts of the document he posted say anything like what he said. The filing is arguing that the ESPN contract should be available to FSU and to the state. It says that the ESPN contract is crucial to the FSU case. It does not say that the GOR is invalid if the ESPN contract dies. Apparently the person who put out that tweet doesn't actual understand English language content. They only read a few words, and understand whatever they want those words to mean.

Seems like a lot of that on Twitter… sensational tweet with link to content that says nothing of the sort. Kinda like how newspaper editors would come up with headlines that may or may not have anything to do with the content of the article…

 

[awbuzz]

I like it. I usually don't like the idea of mega conferences but given current realities, this one preserves some regionality.
I take it "UND" is supposed to be "UNC". As for UND, tell them to either get all the way in or all the way out. Tired of watching them have their cake and eat it, too.

I thought we were looking to bring in North Dakota and UNC to pound sand.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

From the GOR document:


The ESPN contract is specifically called out in the GOR document. I think this language is a grant of rights for the things that are necessary to carry out a media contract, and specifically those things that are listed in the ESPN contract. I think that if the ESPN contract was cancelled, the document would still exist, and those obligations would still be covered by the GOR, so it would not negate the GOR. However, I am not a lawyer. I think a lawyer could make a strong argument that the GOR requires the ESPN Agreement because it is specifically listed in the GOR document. I think two lawyers could make strong arguments in both directions. It would take a court case to make a determination.

However, even with that said, I am not convinced that the completely quit the ACC option actually exists. I am not so certain as the YouTube and Twitter people that ESPN would drop the ACC even if it does have such an option. I do think that something will change by the early 2030s, but I think it will be a much larger change in the college landscape than just teams exiting the ACC.

This language simply dictates that the GoR exists for the full duration of the ESPN contract and it includes everything that ESPN needs from the ACC/schools to be able to fill their broadcast needs (access to stadiums, ability to bring in equipment, etc).

Even if ESPN were to be cancel the broadcast agreement, the member institutions have still signed their media rights to the conference. ESPN's agreement with the conference is separate from the GoR. The GoR is a foundational document that the ESPN agreement relies upon.

Also, the media rights are exclusively owned by ESPN - ESPN can choose to broadcast on their own networks or on the various regional broadcasts (Bally's, etc), but ESPN gets to control which games they get on their networks.

Lawyers will likely argue and argue until the contract has ended. The ACC can't be compelled to change anything, so they'll likely just stall and wait for the contract to end.

 

[roadkill]

Just a quick update on the legal proceedings in case anyone remains interested...on Tuesday in Leon County, FSU alum Judge Cooper denied the ACC's motion to dismiss based on jurisdiction. Shocking, I know.

 

[CuseJacket]

SMU is going to be a fascinating case study in the NIL and soon-to-be school-funded payroll era. There is (literally) not a school out there with more money when the Mustangs' boosters decide to go all-in. Texas A&M led the country with $115 million in donations in 2022-23 and the next-closest school was Texas at $86 million. This number from SMU is massive and shows what the Mustangs' oil barons are willing to shell out when they think their team has a chance to compete.

 

[stinger78]

Wowsa! Lotso oil money flowing into those barrels!

 

[yeti92]

FSU can hate it all they want, but SMU may end up being a really good pickup for the ACC, not only for the additional market but it looks like they are willing to pay to play.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Seems all the best conferences need to have at least one school with a monster athletic budget

 

[Techster]

This is an example of the ability to create a brand, but not a market. If you want to know why SMU was happy to forgo ACC payments for the foreseeable future to join a P4 conference, there you go. The ACC gives SMU a bigger platform for both their school and their athletics programs. Some can say SMU "bought their way in" but the ACC was smart enough to realize SMU also gives the conference one of the biggest markets in the country and a school with big enough donors to create a national level program. SMU is investing A LOT of money to create their brand, similar to what Oregon did. Yes, it sucks for schools that don't have the ability to raise that kind of cash, but it's good for the conference.

This is why GT will be in play when the B1G has the opportunity. You can create a brand like what SMU is currently attempting to do, but you can't create a Dallas, or an Atlanta market. You either have it or you don't. GT is currently investing and allocating a sizeable chunk of our operating revenue into our football program. It's an investment that should have been done years ago. The payoff will be worth it.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So from 2006 to 2023 they won three championships and you call that “two cool periods?” Sounds more like they had one hot period.

If you ignore the 90's and early 00's you're right...

 

[iceeater1969]

Where is it specified that each school gets equal payout from TV deal?

I repeat that - it sure seems like about 2 springs ago ESPN told the schools to up their efforts. Gt's PREZ has cleaned house and put it in gear. I think they were responding to the massive tv rating differences i.e. fsu/mia verses bc/syracuse. Tv is all about entertainment.

Imo, fsu and mia, clem are calling out to ESPN and the ACC the discrepancy in school funding. With NIL , player money, and portal chaos, having the good acc schools publicly saying they want out of acc espn , has got to be embarrassing Espn in front of the advertisers. Every ACC broadcast has the GOR lawsuits hanging over them.

Also, I heard that the AD for U of Illinois has said, when the reset comes, being a legacy member of big 10 won't be enough. He is calling for more internal effort/money.

Now, to make my day, gt needs play tough all year, beat fsu in season opener, and later beat UNC and win 1 of UL ND, Mia, NCST = 7 wins. ESPNwii see that Atlanta is a difference maker for Gt when paired with motivated alumni.

The era of legacy membership and equal pay is ending