Conference Realignment

[MWBATL]

GT is graduating significant numbers of athletes in every sport. And we're not the only ones. Someone seems to disagree with your premise.

Or someone bends over backwards like a pretzel to meet the numbers that look good. (NB- I suspect this is true at any number of factory schools, far less so at GT. I hope and believe.)

 

[RonJohn]

And those of you who actually went to Tech are free to laugh at me for saying this but it was the academic standards for Tech athletes that were partly the reason I was first attracted to following Tech sports. Players who were winners on and off the field as well as in the classroom made an impression on me as a young kid. It didn’t hurt that Tech also fielded good teams.

My relationship to Tech is long, and it certainly became frustrating as Tech struggled more and more in sports due to other schools getting more and more relaxed about their academic requirements for athletes. I would remind everyone that the series between Tech and Georgia used to be the closest series in the nation until Georgia started funneling money under the table and giving cars to players like Hershel Walker and accepting athletes who couldn’t even read.

I don’t know where all this will end up but some of the possibilities will certainly cause me to rethink why I’m a Tech fan.

I don't know where it will end up either. I think there is some possibility of a purely professional league "sponsored" by schools being set up. If that happens, I would imagine that many G5 schools would opt to be in a different league that still has academics as part of it. I don't know what GT would decide to do in that situation. I don't know what ND would decide to do in that situation either. Many people think that ND is 100% like an SEC school, but I don't think so.

Such a professional league would be extremely popular when it starts, but I don't know if that popularity would last. Once the newness wears off, would a large public still have interest in an obvious minor league system for the NFL? How many people watch the minor league championship game? I can't say that the popularity would diminish, but I do think it is a possibility. It would be humorous, in my opinion, if such a system is put in place and the professional league falls flat, while the academic league replaces what is currently college football.

 

[roadkill]

I don't know where it will end up either. I think there is some possibility of a purely professional league "sponsored" by schools being set up. If that happens, I would imagine that many G5 schools would opt to be in a different league that still has academics as part of it. I don't know what GT would decide to do in that situation. I don't know what ND would decide to do in that situation either. Many people think that ND is 100% like an SEC school, but I don't think so.

Such a professional league would be extremely popular when it starts, but I don't know if that popularity would last. Once the newness wears off, would a large public still have interest in an obvious minor league system for the NFL? How many people watch the minor league championship game? I can't say that the popularity would diminish, but I do think it is a possibility. It would be humorous, in my opinion, if such a system is put in place and the professional league falls flat, while the academic league replaces what is currently college football.

This is the reason I feel that there needs to be a strong academic connection to the school in order for the sport to continue to thrive. Paid players or not, if they aren't students, then it is truly just a minor league for the NFL. And I agree that the popularity would decline if that were to transpire.

 

[orientalnc]

Or someone bends over backwards like a pretzel to meet the numbers that look good. (NB- I suspect this is true at any number of factory schools, far less so at GT. I hope and believe.)

I am not going to say my GSU degree or my UAB masters is the same as a GT degree. It isn't. I never had the classroom competition you guys faced. But my education enabled me to retire at 55 (my wife at 51) with enough money to leave my three sons with no college debt (and two GT degrees) and a comfortable retirement life for my wife & I (she was a GSU prof). You do not have to be a GT grad to be a millionaire. These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education. We do not have to put them down to make ourselves feel good.

 

[Southern psu fan]

I am not going to say my GSU degree or my UAB masters is the same as a GT degree. It isn't. I never had the classroom competition you guys faced. But my education enabled me to retire at 55 (my wife at 51) with enough money to leave my three sons with no college debt (and two GT degrees) and a comfortable retirement life for my wife & I (she was a GSU prof). You do not have to be a GT grad to be a millionaire. These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education. We do not have to put them down to make ourselves feel good.

You did good brother!

 

[cpf2001]

Most of the players on P5 rosters aren’t going to make the NFL and many of the ones who will won’t make “never work again” money unless they’re extremely frugal.

I don’t see significant motivation to get rid of the student part on either side. The admins certainly shouldn’t be optimistic about marketing benefits going from “college sports” to “minor league sports” either.

 

[JacketOff]

I am not going to say my GSU degree or my UAB masters is the same as a GT degree. It isn't. I never had the classroom competition you guys faced. But my education enabled me to retire at 55 (my wife at 51) with enough money to leave my three sons with no college debt (and two GT degrees) and a comfortable retirement life for my wife & I (she was a GSU prof). You do not have to be a GT grad to be a millionaire. These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education. We do not have to put them down to make ourselves feel good.

Bama has been doing excellent at graduating their football players since Saban took over. UGA was, until Kirby took over. What most people are arguing (I think) isn’t even about the raw graduation totals, though. It’s how are they getting there. What I love about GT is that the athletes are there “playing school” just like the rest of the student body. Whereas a lot of graduates from the factory schools aren’t getting degrees that hold any weight. They’re either taking middle school level courses, or they aren’t going to class or doing course work at all. That is what I don’t care for when it comes to college sports. If you work hard and have some common sense about you, a degree from damn near anywhere in the country can take you wherever you want to go. But handing out BS degrees (sometimes literally a BS) to people who haven’t earned them, just because they’re an athlete is not right.

I think people are upset because a lot of these factory athletes are “graduating” with bogus degrees that require zero actual time and effort, and/or they aren’t doing what’s actually required to graduate with a degree.

 

[gte447f]

In basketball, the coaching change clearly affected some transfers. Regardless, you may want to check these links out. In the first, note the year-over-year improvement, which runs counter to your statement:

Tech Sets Another New Record for NCAA Graduation Success Rate

Rate of Georgia Tech student-athletes that earn degrees reaches all-time high of 91%

ramblinwreck.com

Seventy-Eight Student-Athletes to Graduate from Georgia Tech

Commencement ceremonies set for Friday and Saturday at McCamish Pavilion

ramblinwreck.com

Nine Yellow Jackets Named to All-ACC Academic Football Team

Honorees maintain a 3.0 GPA or higher

ramblinwreck.com

George, Murphy Earns Spots on All-ACC Academic Team

Freshman guard, graduate senior performed well on and off the court in 2023-24

ramblinwreck.com

Kinda difficult to not be interested in school and make a 4.0 at GT. At least that's my recollection.

Edit to add: I saw recently that the football team set a new GPA record at 3.2, but I couldn't find the link.

Look, as an alumnus of the Institute, I am proud as hell of my degree and I am proud as hell of GT student athletes who are the real deal. I hope GT continues to fight the good fight, but that’s going to keep getting harder and harder to do in this pay to play environment. We already have a lot of diehard fans on this message board who say they couldn’t care less about the Institute or about the student athletes’ classes or grades; they just want them to win at football. Someone posted that (u)GA’s GSR is 41%. So the first place football team is last place in academics. That should come as no surprise to anyone. That’s what it takes to win it all.

As far as your GSR numbers go, dig a little deeper. Apparently, transfers out are removed from the numbers. If that’s the case, then we’re not really dealing with the players making the biggest impact on the field or the court. Like I’ve been saying those players are not interested in getting an education.

 

[GTrob21]

Ok, I am updating my prediction.

The way I see it now.

FSU and Clemson to the SEC.

Texas A/M, GT, Miami, and UNC to the B1G

B1G and SEC get 4 guaranteed spots in the playoff and increase their revenue share of the payout (sorry ACC and B12). (B1G is about 2-5 million a year more than the SEC due to how their network is set up)

ACC backfills with WVU, Wash St, Oregon State, and Uconn and is still the 3rd conference for average payouts.

Duke and UNC sign an agreement to play a home and away basketball series until Jesus comes.

We all gradually lose interest in college sports due to the fact that it's just like the NFL now, but an inferior product. The only fans that keep their interest in the future will the be actual students that attend the school.

Thus all Hail The Ohio State...

 

[Towaliga]

….,,.. These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education. We do not have to put them down to make ourselves feel good.

Bama, yes. uga, I’m not so sure about. Someone may have posted it already, but I haven’t gone back and read every single posting on this thread. Therefore I’ll just point out the NCAA data on graduation success rate (GSR) shows that out of 260 schools that play NCAA football, uga ranks #259 in GSR.

 

[TechPhi97]

"evidence" wasn't the right word. Rather I should have said that I hadn't heard a reasonable argument convincing me of such.

I know everyone thinks FSU already has a landing spot, but I have still not heard anything to convince me it is B1G or SEC. To hear FSU fans is it's a done deal but when pressed, their only argument is that B1G wold be crazy not to take them even without AAU. That's all they have - their school is too special to not get invited.

I'm not convinced. Straw polls exist, but with all the mess this has turned out to be I am doubtful either conference wants them now and certainly not without owning their media rights.

I think the size of leagues is getting too big to justify adding more members, honestly. At some point you can’t get another $50M for adding a team, so expansion doesn’t make sense. I think a more likely approach will be the “Super League” that breaks back up into 8 or 10 team, regionally focused groups with a centralized TV rights negotiation. The big hindrance there is the distribution of dollars though.

 

[TechPhi97]

I am not going to say my GSU degree or my UAB masters is the same as a GT degree. It isn't. I never had the classroom competition you guys faced. But my education enabled me to retire at 55 (my wife at 51) with enough money to leave my three sons with no college debt (and two GT degrees) and a comfortable retirement life for my wife & I (she was a GSU prof). You do not have to be a GT grad to be a millionaire. These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education. We do not have to put them down to make ourselves feel good.

IMO, doing good in life is not a function of your college or degree, it’s a function of your work ethic and determination. I know successful people from many colleges. Kudos to you, my friend! Degree programs that some engineers look down upon exist because there are hundreds of career choices in the world, and not everyone chooses their career based on earning potential.

More specific to football, it is appropriate to make fun of schools for putting football players in useless degree programs to keep them eligible. UNC shuttling football players into African American studies, for instance. I think we can be proud of the academic success of our student athletes as compared to other schools, although the broader society probably doesn’t give two ****es.

 

[TooTall]

These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education.

Stetson still hasn't graduated...

For the student body at large, yes uga has tough entrance standards and produces our lawyers and doctors, but the athletics side is a joke. Worst grad rate for the P5 by a mile, hell maybe even by a full marathon.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I am not going to say my GSU degree or my UAB masters is the same as a GT degree. It isn't. I never had the classroom competition you guys faced. But my education enabled me to retire at 55 (my wife at 51) with enough money to leave my three sons with no college debt (and two GT degrees) and a comfortable retirement life for my wife & I (she was a GSU prof). You do not have to be a GT grad to be a millionaire. These are not factory school degrees, but uga and Bama are graduating athletes with a good education. We do not have to put them down to make ourselves feel good.

Love this post but one teeny tiny quibble. It’s not graduates of other schools that we are putting down. It’s athletic departments that intentionally recruit players that they have no intention of graduating or even holding to academic progress. I think this whole thread is about the growing divorce between athletes and academics at football factories and whether or not that’s a virus we all end up with.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

IMO, doing good in life is not a function of your college or degree, it’s a function of your work ethic and determination. I know successful people from many colleges. Kudos to you, my friend! Degree programs that some engineers look down upon exist because there are hundreds of career choices in the world, and not everyone chooses their career based on earning potential.

More specific to football, it is appropriate to make fun of schools for putting football players in useless degree programs to keep them eligible. UNC shuttling football players into African American studies, for instance. I think we can be proud of the academic success of our student athletes as compared to other schools, although the broader society probably doesn’t give two ****es.

I’m not picking at you when I say this but it always bothers me when people throw out African American studies as some kind of sham degree. It seems UNC created several sham programs over the years for athletes but the sham was not intrinsic to the subject matter but rather intrinsic to the system that was set up for athletes. Many years ago Michigan was accused of doing the very same thing with a variety of course offerings.

Anyway, I guess I’m touchy about African American studies because my daughter took these classes at a really good school in the northeast and of the three majors she had it was the most rigorous. It also landed her a job in the financial district in Manhattan.

 

[orientalnc]

Love this post but one teeny tiny quibble. It’s not graduates of other schools that we are putting down. It’s athletic departments that intentionally recruit players that they have no intention of graduating or even holding to academic progress. I think this whole thread is about the growing divorce between athletes and academics at football factories and whether or not that’s a virus we all end up with.

I agree with your point. I was responding to the post that athletes don't care about getting an education, but even uga players are getting degrees from the school at some level. I know 41% is awful, but it's not zero. And it's too many to just be walk-ons.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I agree with your point. I was responding to the post that athletes don't care about getting an education, but even uga players are getting degrees from the school at some level. I know 41% is awful, but it's not zero. And it's too many to just be walk-ons.

Agree. I know a retired doctor of some renown who played football at uga. Academics were more important to him than football even though he was captain of the team and honorable mention All American. He’s amazingly uniformed though on how much student athletes have changed at uga since he was there. He acknowledges some illegalities and some players who are gaming the system, is concerned about NIL, but generally assumes it’s not widespread at uga and that every other school is doing the same thing. I don’t argue with him.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Stetson still hasn't graduated...

For the student body at large, yes uga has tough entrance standards and produces our lawyers and doctors, but the athletics side is a joke. Worst grad rate for the P5 by a mile, hell maybe even by a full marathon.

They don’t produce our doctors. No Med School at uga.

 

[apatriot1776]

Wonder if any other B12 schools might consider coming over. Maybe B12 gets the short end of the stick instead of us.

 

[RonJohn]

Wonder if any other B12 schools might consider coming over. Maybe B12 gets the short end of the stick instead of us.

Have the Pac12 schools signed GORs with the ACC and Big12 already? That would make such a move pointless.

Too much speculation is occurring because someone says something and other people repeat it. Just because tens or hundreds of people repeat something doesn't make it real.