Conference Realignment

RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
CEB said:
Very good points… and with regard to going after member schools, it would seem that the greatest interest in preserving the NCAA would come from the largest D1 schools. After all, they are the ones with the deepest pockets and perpetrated most of the alleged inequity / exploitation. The NCAA is acting as a shield of sorts for them.

Which kind of goes to my initial question… does a school like GT fall into the category of being better off without the NCAA at this point or not?
I would think the lowest of D1 and all of D2 would prefer to have their money and take their chances because I doubt they would be targets for any major suits. Is that wrong headed? Maybe those smaller schools are getting so little in revenue that they prefer the NCAA cover as well?
GT (and most P4 schools) is likely above that line, regardless but I don’t know.
Click to expand...
As far as I know there is no limitation on leaving the NCAA. Any school could leave at any time they want to. There are some limitations, like the ACC GOR prevents schools from leaving the ACC, which is a conference of NCAA schools. I think every ACC member would have to leave the NCAA at the same time, or there would be issues with the conference. There were forum and reporting discussions of the P5 leaving the NCAA and forming their own organization. People have speculated recently that the Big10 and SEC are considering leaving the NCAA and forming their own organization, at least for football. The big issue with leaving is that a school can't do it alone. Since schools are locked in to the ACC, the entire conference would have to leave at the same time. To keep games such as the four ACC-SEC end of season rivalry games, the SEC would probably have to leave for the new organization at the same time. It wouldn't be an issue for a large group, such as the P4 if they decide to do it together. I wouldn't be very possible for an individual school to leave if they still want to compete in intercollegiate sports.
 
stinger78

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,965
orientalnc said:
The settlement in Congress might be the best the NCAA can hope for. A loss in court could be much worse.


This is wrong. The athletes have been unhappy with the enormous salaries and perks for the coaches and administrators for decades. But no one at the schools or the NCAA wanted to change it so that it was a fairer system.
Click to expand...
Yea, an antitrust exemption would be best. All workers, contract, employee, day laborers, etc. at the bottom dislike the salaries at the top. Still, they start there and work their way up. Unions were formed to give them leverage as to even the field. I have no issue with them using collective bargaining, but their status has to be redefined. It seems the old category of S-A is no longer.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,114
GT is absolutely better off without the NCAA. As I’ve pointed out for a long time (and now others are finally seeing and pointing out) the NCAA is nothing but a front for the big boy schools who want to run the sport the way they want and to punish those who ask questions. GT‘s history shows this. The NCAA needs to die. I‘m sure the next governing body will be just as corrupt because who doesn’t want free Masters tickets or box seats or kids and grandkids acceptance, but thats just human nature. Until the school Presidents have the backbone to ask questions nothing will really change from a governance stand point.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,810
RonJohn said:
As far as I know there is no limitation on leaving the NCAA. Any school could leave at any time they want to. There are some limitations, like the ACC GOR prevents schools from leaving the ACC, which is a conference of NCAA schools. I think every ACC member would have to leave the NCAA at the same time, or there would be issues with the conference. There were forum and reporting discussions of the P5 leaving the NCAA and forming their own organization. People have speculated recently that the Big10 and SEC are considering leaving the NCAA and forming their own organization, at least for football. The big issue with leaving is that a school can't do it alone. Since schools are locked in to the ACC, the entire conference would have to leave at the same time. To keep games such as the four ACC-SEC end of season rivalry games, the SEC would probably have to leave for the new organization at the same time. It wouldn't be an issue for a large group, such as the P4 if they decide to do it together. I wouldn't be very possible for an individual school to leave if they still want to compete in intercollegiate sports.
Click to expand...
Agree, but I think you misinterpret my post. I am wondering whose interest would be served if the NCAA went away via bankruptcy or otherwise. I agree that a member or two pulling out is unlikely, if even possible.
Ironic that the “Big 2” have been rumored to want to leave the NCAA, but at the current moment in time, they are likely gaining the most cover by having the NCAA as the entity in a lawsuit. If those schools left or the NCAA went away, they would be top targets for a new or amended suit.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,089
Location
North Shore, Chicago
RonJohn said:
The NCAA is not a really a separate organization. It is simply a collective of schools that joined together to organize sports among the schools. Not you in particular, but people seem to think of the NCAA as an out of control commissioner that can't be removed. The NCAA office didn't make the rules, the member schools voted on the rules. The NCAA office only does that the member schools tell it to do as a group. I'm not a lawyer and don't know for sure, but it seems to me that it would be very easy to go after the member schools of the NCAA if the NCAA shuts down and files bankruptcy. This lawsuit isn't really about what the NCAA office did, it is about what the NCAA members have been doing.

The article actually says that the NCAA and leagues may have to file bankruptcy if a settlement isn't worked out, not just the NCAA. The article also says that such bankruptcy filings would open up the individual schools to direct claims in lawsuits. I have seen other reports that say that some school athletic departments would end up filing bankruptcy in that situation.
Click to expand...
The NCAA is a separate legal entity in the eyes of the Law, just like a Corporation. The individual members of the NCAA are protected the same way owners of a corporation are protected. There may be some liability, but it's not what you're saying.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,089
Location
North Shore, Chicago
RonJohn said:
As far as I know there is no limitation on leaving the NCAA. Any school could leave at any time they want to. There are some limitations, like the ACC GOR prevents schools from leaving the ACC, which is a conference of NCAA schools. I think every ACC member would have to leave the NCAA at the same time, or there would be issues with the conference. There were forum and reporting discussions of the P5 leaving the NCAA and forming their own organization. People have speculated recently that the Big10 and SEC are considering leaving the NCAA and forming their own organization, at least for football. The big issue with leaving is that a school can't do it alone. Since schools are locked in to the ACC, the entire conference would have to leave at the same time. To keep games such as the four ACC-SEC end of season rivalry games, the SEC would probably have to leave for the new organization at the same time. It wouldn't be an issue for a large group, such as the P4 if they decide to do it together. I wouldn't be very possible for an individual school to leave if they still want to compete in intercollegiate sports.
Click to expand...
Schools are not locked into the ACC. There is a fee to leave, but they can leave.
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
forensicbuzz said:
The NCAA is a separate legal entity in the eyes of the Law, just like a Corporation. The individual members of the NCAA are protected the same way owners of a corporation are protected. There may be some liability, but it's not what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Just being a separate entity doesn't guarantee avoidance of liability. People are stung all of the time in LLCs if they have not followed the separation of the LLC and their personal finances strictly. Also, the lawsuit is actually not only against the NCAA, it is also against the Pac12, Big12, ACC, SEC, and Big10. The actions alleged in the lawsuit are actions taken by individual schools. If the NCAA and conferences fold and go bankrupt to avoid paying the lawsuit, then the lawyers could split the class group up and sue individual schools with almost the same set of facts. From a practical standpoint, the schools will not be protected long term, even if there is a separation that keeps House vs. NCAA from affecting them this year.
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
forensicbuzz said:
Schools are not locked into the ACC. There is a fee to leave, but they can leave.
Click to expand...
Similar to my last reply, I am speaking on practical terms here instead of legalistic. Any school in any conference can leave their conference and the NCAA. However, they can't if they want to continue competing in intercollegiate sports. A school could pay the buy out of the ACC and move to the NAIA, but that isn't practical. If a team simply went independent of NCAA and NAIA, they would have to have their athletes declared eligible by the NCAA to compete against NCAA schools and by the NAIA to compete against NCAA schools. A school could form it's own alliance of college athletics, but would need other members. It would only be practical to leave the NCAA if there was a group of schools leaving with you to form a different organization. That is the point I was making. I was not trying to say that it isn't legally possible for a school to leave the ACC and NCAA.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,089
Location
North Shore, Chicago
RonJohn said:
Just being a separate entity doesn't guarantee avoidance of liability. People are stung all of the time in LLCs if they have not followed the separation of the LLC and their personal finances strictly. Also, the lawsuit is actually not only against the NCAA, it is also against the Pac12, Big12, ACC, SEC, and Big10. The actions alleged in the lawsuit are actions taken by individual schools. If the NCAA and conferences fold and go bankrupt to avoid paying the lawsuit, then the lawyers could split the class group up and sue individual schools with almost the same set of facts. From a practical standpoint, the schools will not be protected long term, even if there is a separation that keeps House vs. NCAA from affecting them this year.
Click to expand...
You said it yourself. They have to do it properly; if they do, there's some protection (probably a lot of protection). The NCAA is a separate legal entity from the conferences and the schools. Like I said, if they sue the NCAA, the schools and conferences have protection. You have now moved the goal posts by including additional information. I'm fine with this, as long as you recognize what I was responding to.
 
slugboy

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,726
stinger78 said:
Read the article again. The NCAA is lobbying the House for an antitrust exemption that may offer a “better” solution than a court settlement.
Click to expand...
This is really one sided in terms of what they wrote.
The NCAA is hoping the plaintiffs accept the settlement. I don’t see a quote from the plaintiffs
The NCAA is hopeful that other plaintiffs will sign on to the settlement.
If other plaintiffs don’t sign on to the settlement, they may lobby for the settlement to be codified into law (and that’s a small part of one paragraph).
There’s no quote from anyone in Congress about anything in this article. If there were anything going on, i would expect to see something from Tuberville or Manchin or Booker or someone. There’s nothing. What in the article gives any indication that Congress is going to do anything, or that they even have a sponsor?

I wouldn’t take this article as evidence that Congress is going to do anything
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
forensicbuzz said:
You said it yourself. They have to do it properly; if they do, there's some protection (probably a lot of protection). The NCAA is a separate legal entity from the conferences and the schools. Like I said, if they sue the NCAA, the schools and conferences have protection. You have now moved the goal posts by including additional information. I'm fine with this, as long as you recognize what I was responding to.
Click to expand...
I'm just not being legalistic in my descriptions. The suit is against the NCAA and the conferences. The conferences are not protected because they are named in the lawsuit. The NCAA and the conferences had rules that prevented the schools from paying players, but it was the schools that did the alleged harm to the former players. The schools individualy committed the alleged torts, and could be sued individually. I was just in broad terms stating that the NCAA is just a collection of schools. Even if the NCAA folds and declares bankruptcy, the plaintiffs could sue the individual schools, so the schools would ultimately be responsible. I would guess that any settlement talks will include promises not to sue the schools individually.

Actually, if a settlement is reached it would be interesting to read the document and see how it is worded. If it says something like -- the class will not sue member institutions of the NCAA-- then that would have some pressure to remain in the NCAA. That is more purely speculative thinking than I normally do, but it could be interesting.
 
Top