Conference Realignment

[Augusta_Jacket]

He had to decide who was he going to hire and he kept his mouth shut on who he was even interviewing. A good quality to have. It's hard to keep a lid on that sort of thing and there were some leaks (Fritz) but not from him. Stoudamire hire looks to be a hit as well and came out of the blue.

Gotcha. I misread that initially.

 

[LT 1967]

See the attached article concerning the presentation by Charlie Backer at the ACC Spring Meeting.

 

[Techster]

He had to decide who was he going to hire and he kept his mouth shut on who he was even interviewing. A good quality to have. It's hard to keep a lid on that sort of thing and there were some leaks (Fritz) but not from him. Stoudamire hire looks to be a hit as well and came out of the blue.

The only leaks during the FBHC search came from donors. Batt and Cabrera learned their lesson on who they could trust during that process. Notice how the BBHC search went under the radar until Stoudamire agreed to accept it?

 

[Techster]

Agree %

If you are even just thinking about leaving the conference you make NO statement that comes even close to being interpreted that way.

Most discussions about leaving a conference require a non disclosure agreement before discussions even begin. Even Jim Delaney, the B1G's commissioner at the time who spearheaded the B1G's invitation for GT, said in an interview about that time period that he was under a 99 year non disclosure agreement so he couldn't discuss which schools were invited. It's also why people directly involved during that time have never gone on record saying GT was invited, just sports writers with close connections that have revealed it.

The typical line from commissioners is "we talked to multiple schools" and from the schools in the process is "in the interest of our school, we have discussions all the time with other conferences" (refer to ex GT President Peterson's interview in the AJC). I've been closely following realignment now for over 5 years. After a while, you start the see a pattern of how certain decision makers talk about realignment.

Even if Batt and GT accepted the B1G's agreement in good faith until the GOR is resolved, they're most likely under a non disclosure until the GOR is settled. No need to be like FSU and Clemson who are trying to make the "current working relationship" untenable, GT has to operate as usual...because that's our only choice at the moment.

 

[UgaBlows]

Which monster network was/is the beneficiary of both conference's GOR?

Espn is not the beneficiary of any conf GOR are they? Wekve all been over this 100 times talking about FSU, the GOR is independent of the espn media contract and designed to protect the conference and it’s members, if say for instance Kansas left the Big12 for the SEC the GOR would still give the BiG12 ownership of Kansas’s media rights for all home games. It would be untenable for Kansas.

 

[UgaBlows]

Even if Batt and GT accepted the B1G's agreement in good faith until the GOR is resolved, they're most likely under a non disclosure until the GOR is settled. No need to be like FSU and Clemson who are trying to make the "current working relationship" untenable, GT has to operate as usual...because that's our only choice at the moment.

God I hope you’re right about this, Batt would go down as a GT legend if he negotiates us into the BIG right under everyone’s nose’s.

 

[LT 1967]

For those who are interested, Coach Key will be on ACCN at 6:15 from Amelis Island. Norvell is on now. I will watch just to see if he has any lawsuit news.

 

[stinger 1957]

I believe schools already know where they end up in all this current movement talk. I've always believed there have been talks going on with the schools and conferences behind the scenes. If a school doesn't at this time know where they are going, how do they afford to pay 20 million per year to players out of what they are making in the ACC.

Does the large settlement for past players and the 20 million cost per year going forward for the schools that remain in major CFB end up being the force that settles all this current conference realignment mess, makes each school have to face the $$ reality. I don't know just asking the question, seems to me that if you do not have future prospects of big money you got a real problem going fwd. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, don't know. Does it all get worked out behind the scenes and then somehow announced to the fans/public?

I want to get it over as far as ACC is concerned and let the school I care about get on with it's athletic life, whatever that may be, even if they get out of athletics. There comes a time in a divorce where you want to get it over.

When I hear Mike Krzyzewski saying that the Big East, primarily a BB conference, should enter or expand their CFB presence I'm assuming at a different level, I hear Louisville and Pitt people saying they had rather stay in ACC but if that is not going to work they're fine with going to the Big 12, when I hear the Big 12 folks saying they are going to get busy going after more expansion, it smells to me like "stuff' is going on and being settled behind the scenes. CMK is loved by Duke faithful, who better to step out front with Duke going to the Big East. Please hear me and understand that if it is a done deal or close and the powers that be at each of the schools I mentioned want to start breaking in their fan bases then maybe they are having folks get out front with it now in prep for it happening, because it could and will be controversial I'm guessing to some of their fans.

I have always wanted it to work out this way, it just seems so much better, the money gets settled with each school, ESPN for their investment in ACC network, TV coverage for the 1,2,3 remaining years and whatever else I'm not mentioning here.

I don't know all this, there just seem to be things going on that make it seem very possible. As I've said before in postings, "we shall see"

One question I have, did I not see on here recently that GT had raised 250 mil but no one knew exactly what it was for? Is it for something like what I wrote about above? I still don't know what it's for, we talked about stadium improvements, but don't think it was ever officially designated for just that, just seemed to be board people heading off in that direction.

 

[Techster]

Espn is not the beneficiary of any conf GOR are they? Wekve all been over this 100 times talking about FSU, the GOR is independent of the espn media contract and designed to protect the conference and it’s members, if say for instance Kansas left the Big12 for the SEC the GOR would still give the BiG12 ownership of Kansas’s media rights for all home games. It would be untenable for Kansas.

They are absolutely the beneficiary of conferences keeping their "tier 1" teams tied down (through a GOR) to a conference for a set amount of years. Read the ACC's GOR. ESPN is splashed all over it. I'm sure the Big 12's GOR has ESPN splashed all over it as well.

It's Quid pro quo...conferences in essence promise to keep all their teams, especially the more marquee teams, tethered to the GOR, and it's mutually beneficially because ESPN can sell advertisers on certain markets and a certain amount of eyeballs for an amount of years. GOR benefits (or not...depending on the POV) each conference AND ESPN.

The only thing that's still up in the air is whether GOR is still valid should ESPN exercise their unilateral option to terminate their media contract early. The only ones saying the ACC's GOR lives to 2036 even if ESPN terminates in 2027 are certain posters who say "Trust me bro, my friend who's plugged in says so..."

Personally, I want to see ESPN terminate early to test that theory. I think GT will be fine either way.

 

[gtbb]

Most discussions about leaving a conference require a non disclosure agreement before discussions even begin. Even Jim Delaney, the B1G's commissioner at the time who spearheaded the B1G's invitation for GT, said in an interview about that time period that he was under a 99 year non disclosure agreement so he couldn't discuss which schools were invited. It's also why people directly involved during that time have never gone on record saying GT was invited, just sports writers with close connections that have revealed it.

The typical line from commissioners is "we talked to multiple schools" and from the schools in the process is "in the interest of our school, we have discussions all the time with other conferences" (refer to ex GT President Peterson's interview in the AJC). I've been closely following realignment now for over 5 years. After a while, you start the see a pattern of how certain decision makers talk about realignment.

Even if Batt and GT accepted the B1G's agreement in good faith until the GOR is resolved, they're most likely under a non disclosure until the GOR is settled. No need to be like FSU and Clemson who are trying to make the "current working relationship" untenable, GT has to operate as usual...because that's our only choice at the moment.

If I'm Batt, I don't breath a word of anything but party line in that enviroment. We could be in deep discussions with another conference and if he's smart he says exactly what you read there. Don't say ANYTHING, speak quietly behind the scenes, and be prepared for whatever happens....

So, no...these comments don't concern me at all. They just prove Batt is smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut.

It could be that Batt is just playing it smart, and not tipping his hand on quiet discussions. Or....it could be that Batt is just willing to ride it out in the ACC, because we might not have any other choice. Maybe he's just pro-ACC.

 

[g0lftime]

It could be that Batt is just playing it smart, and not tipping his hand on quiet discussions. Or....it could be that Batt is just willing to ride it out in the ACC, because we might not have any other choice. Maybe he's just pro-ACC.

Cabrera will be involved with any big decision about ACC membership. IMO he would prefer that the ACC stay intact for now.

 

[slugboy]

The B word (bankruptcy) came up, with the conferences having to pay the bill in the House case. It doesn’t even preclude other lawsuits

Docs: NCAA could face $20B in damages, bankruptcy if proposed settlement offer isn't agreed upon

The potential settlement is believed to be in its final stages of adoption and consists of back pay, a new compensation model and an overhaul of the NCAA scholarship system.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[stinger78]

The B word (bankruptcy) came up, with the conferences having to pay the bill in the House case. It doesn’t even preclude other lawsuits

Docs: NCAA could face $20B in damages, bankruptcy if proposed settlement offer isn't agreed upon

The potential settlement is believed to be in its final stages of adoption and consists of back pay, a new compensation model and an overhaul of the NCAA scholarship system.

sports.yahoo.com

Wow. Well, here it is. The US Congress is stepping in to “settle” the dispute now for “reparations” to those athletes who were “swindled” out of so much money (tic). It would cost the schools dearly and may force the NCAA into bankruptcy.

How this can happen in a voluntary system everyone knew and accepted for over 75 years, including the athletes themselves, is beyond me. But here we are in America circa 2024.

 

[stinger 1957]

Cabrera will be involved with any big decision about ACC membership. IMO he would prefer that the ACC stay intact for now.

I'm not questioning your opinion that Cabrera prefer that ACC stay intact for now but would like to know your reasoning at how you arrived at this opinion. Would you share that with us? I make opinions all the time on here myself. I totally agree with you that he will be involved in membership decisions, just think it is too big of a decision effecting GT for him not to be.

 

[slugboy]

Wow. Well, here it is. The US Congress is stepping in to “settle” the dispute now for “reparations” to those athletes who were “swindled” out of so much money (tic). It would cost the schools dearly and may force the NCAA into bankruptcy.

How this can happen in a voluntary system everyone knew and accepted for over 75 years, including the athletes themselves, is beyond me. But here we are in America circa 2024.

Ain’t no Congress in that article. It’s a court case.

 

[orientalnc]

Wow. Well, here it is. The US Congress is stepping in to “settle” the dispute now for “reparations” to those athletes who were “swindled” out of so much money (tic). It would cost the schools dearly and may force the NCAA into bankruptcy.

The settlement in Congress might be the best the NCAA can hope for. A loss in court could be much worse.

How this can happen in a voluntary system everyone knew and accepted for over 75 years, including the athletes themselves, is beyond me.

This is wrong. The athletes have been unhappy with the enormous salaries and perks for the coaches and administrators for decades. But no one at the schools or the NCAA wanted to change it so that it was a fairer system.

 

[CEB]

The settlement in Congress might be the best the NCAA can hope for. A loss in court could be much worse.


This is wrong. The athletes have been unhappy with the enormous salaries and perks for the coaches and administrators for decades. But no one at the schools or the NCAA wanted to change it so that it was a fairer system.

So… all sorts of questions to whomever feels like opining….
How much should we care about the existence of the NCAA at this point? They are not an enforcement entity at this point, so I don’t see that they offer any “protection” or fairness.
They basically just disperse payments to schools for various tournaments and events… other entities or the schools themselves could arrange similar events, right?
Selfishly, a school in GT’s position doesn’t seem tremendously affected by the presence of the NCAA at this point. Am I wrong?

So when are those NCAA payments made? Would the timing of a ruling / judgement be critical? In other words, if the case ended when the NCAA was about to make payments, NCAA is flush with cash… good for plaintiffs, bad for NCAA member schools. Right? If right after dispersement, NCAA has little cash, schools have been paid and NCAA opts for bankruptcy. Wouldn’t that actually benefit the schools more than a structured settlement? Tin foil hat…. Would the NCAA continue appeals for the sake of timing to ensure settlement payments and preserve their own existence?

In the end, the bottom of D1 and D2 will end up bearing the brunt whatever comes out of this. The top of D1 will shrug their shoulders and cash massive TV revenue checks and see a minimal decrease in overall revenue if NCAA payments are lost. The bottom of D1 and D2 will have a really hard time budgeting if the NCAA money they counted on goes elsewhere.

 

[RonJohn]

So… all sorts of questions to whomever feels like opining….
How much should we care about the existence of the NCAA at this point? They are not an enforcement entity at this point, so I don’t see that they offer any “protection” or fairness.
They basically just disperse payments to schools for various tournaments and events… other entities or the schools themselves could arrange similar events, right?
Selfishly, a school in GT’s position doesn’t seem tremendously affected by the presence of the NCAA at this point. Am I wrong?

So when are those NCAA payments made? Would the timing of a ruling / judgement be critical? In other words, if the case ended when the NCAA was about to make payments, NCAA is flush with cash… good for plaintiffs, bad for NCAA member schools. Right? If right after dispersement, NCAA has little cash, schools have been paid and NCAA opts for bankruptcy. Wouldn’t that actually benefit the schools more than a structured settlement? Tin foil hat…. Would the NCAA continue appeals for the sake of timing to ensure settlement payments and preserve their own existence?

The NCAA is not a really a separate organization. It is simply a collective of schools that joined together to organize sports among the schools. Not you in particular, but people seem to think of the NCAA as an out of control commissioner that can't be removed. The NCAA office didn't make the rules, the member schools voted on the rules. The NCAA office only does that the member schools tell it to do as a group. I'm not a lawyer and don't know for sure, but it seems to me that it would be very easy to go after the member schools of the NCAA if the NCAA shuts down and files bankruptcy. This lawsuit isn't really about what the NCAA office did, it is about what the NCAA members have been doing.

The article actually says that the NCAA and leagues may have to file bankruptcy if a settlement isn't worked out, not just the NCAA. The article also says that such bankruptcy filings would open up the individual schools to direct claims in lawsuits. I have seen other reports that say that some school athletic departments would end up filing bankruptcy in that situation.

 

[g0lftime]

I'm not questioning your opinion that Cabrera prefer that ACC stay intact for now but would like to know your reasoning at how you arrived at this opinion. Would you share that with us? I make opinions all the time on here myself. I totally agree with you that he will be involved in membership decisions, just think it is too big of a decision effecting GT for him not to be.

I spoke with him during a visit to Raleigh. He was very pro keeping ACC intact and all members treated equally. At least he was at that time last fall and that was prior to expanding the ACC. The AD's seem to be the most motivated to increase their budgets at any cost. Would FSU and Clemson be motivated to leave the ACC if TV revenue was equal to the SEC?
I have no inside info and things may have changed but like you, I am entitled to my opinion.
Change often creates unintended consequences.

 

[CEB]

The NCAA is not a really a separate organization. It is simply a collective of schools that joined together to organize sports among the schools. Not you in particular, but people seem to think of the NCAA as an out of control commissioner that can't be removed. The NCAA office didn't make the rules, the member schools voted on the rules. The NCAA office only does that the member schools tell it to do as a group. I'm not a lawyer and don't know for sure, but it seems to me that it would be very easy to go after the member schools of the NCAA if the NCAA shuts down and files bankruptcy. This lawsuit isn't really about what the NCAA office did, it is about what the NCAA members have been doing.

The article actually says that the NCAA and leagues may have to file bankruptcy if a settlement isn't worked out, not just the NCAA. The article also says that such bankruptcy filings would open up the individual schools to direct claims in lawsuits. I have seen other reports that say that some school athletic departments would end up filing bankruptcy in that situation.

Very good points… and with regard to going after member schools, it would seem that the greatest interest in preserving the NCAA would come from the largest D1 schools. After all, they are the ones with the deepest pockets and perpetrated most of the alleged inequity / exploitation. The NCAA is acting as a shield of sorts for them.

Which kind of goes to my initial question… does a school like GT fall into the category of being better off without the NCAA at this point or not?
I would think the lowest of D1 and all of D2 would prefer to have their money and take their chances because I doubt they would be targets for any major suits. Is that wrong headed? Maybe those smaller schools are getting so little in revenue that they prefer the NCAA cover as well?
GT (and most P4 schools) is likely above that line, regardless but I don’t know.