Conference Realignment

[awbuzz]

To equate Maryland with GT is laughable. Maryland is in a stable, money producing conference in a part of the country that could care less about college football. Yet they have been above .500 with three bowl wins in a row. As mentioned, all their other sports programs have been stabilized with the BIG money....

How much less do you think they could care?

... Just imagine how it would be if they were in a part of the country that could NOT care less...

Sorry, but not sorry, for coming across as a member of the grammar police.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When did I say BIG coaches aren’t poachable? Tell me the last time GT poached a coach? You can’t because we have never poached a coach because we are a cash poor school. Louisville wants to win and Brohm is an alum so that lined up (And he did beat us in his first game so I’d say Louisville spent some wise money).

It’s ok that many of who can’t see past tomorrow and always set yourselves up to be shocked. The ACC is toast and will be an afterthought when playoff invites get handed out. We’ll get 1 team in until they expand into the 20’s. And Stoudamire will be poached the minute he makes the tourney. And Key will have a tough decision to make in the future if King keeps leading us to wins. That’s just the reality of being a fan of a poor school in a garbage conference. Don’t hate the messenger hate the guys who led us to this point.

Heisman

 

[yeti92]

When did I say BIG coaches aren’t poachable?

I mean, your whole post I quoted was about how stable Maryland is because they took the BIG offer and how GT is in comparison poor because we did not take the BIG offer and so our coaches will get poached.

Tell me the last time GT poached a coach?

Just off our current coaching roster we have at least 3,
Brent Key was poached from Bama
Buster Faulkner from uga
Geep Wade from App State

There may be more, I stopped looking after I got that far.

(Also side note for anyone reading along: Deandre Smelter is back at Tech as a grad assistant)

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I mean, your whole post I quoted was about how stable Maryland is because they took the BIG offer and how GT is in comparison poor because we did not take the BIG offer and so our coaches will get poached.


Just off our current coaching roster we have at least 3,
Brent Key was poached from Bama
Buster Faulkner from uga
Geep Wade from App State

There may be more, I stopped looking after I got that far.

(Also side note for anyone reading along: Deandre Smelter is back at Tech as a grad assistant)

Hooray for Smelter!

 

[stingerman]

I think we are in general agreement here, especially about GT donations. I was responding to your line graphs which portray trends as well as absolute $. Especially this quote:

As an aside, I'd like to know what UVA is doing right about soliciting their donations. Their enrollment isn't much different than GT's, they haven't seen much success on the field, and they don't seem to have a particularly rabid fanbase. Yet their donations are far more than their ACC peers and nearly triple ours. ??

Regarding UVA, alums absolutely love the school and think back really fondly on their time in Charlottesville. The school does a next level job of connecting with alums and wining/dining them when they come back for visits. GT is doing this better but certainly could learn some things from Virginia.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Regarding UVA, alums absolutely love the school and think back really fondly on their time in Charlottesville. The school does a next level job of connecting with alums and wining/dining them when they come back for visits. GT is doing this better but certainly could learn some things from Virginia.

An important factor in ranking academic institutions is examining how well the school does with alumni engagement, and, in turn, the level of giving back to the institution.

 

[roadkill]

Regarding UVA, alums absolutely love the school and think back really fondly on their time in Charlottesville. The school does a next level job of connecting with alums and wining/dining them when they come back for visits. GT is doing this better but certainly could learn some things from Virginia.

An important factor in ranking academic institutions is examining how well the school does with alumni engagement, and, in turn, the level of giving back to the institution.

I haven't checked any numbers but GT alums seem to do pretty well at giving back to the school. To their Athletic Association, not so much. Does Virginia (the school, not the athletic association) engage their alumni to the extent that they enhance donations to their athletic association?

 

[iceeater1969]

UVA is for lawyers and money folks from north of Richmond where money grows on trees.
we have lots of well off grads, but fewer money grads - same for SMU , Stanford

Obtaining comparable funding is the responsibility of the Prez.

There is some good news on GTAA total budget as compared to other reporting ACC members on the KNIGHT data base. I have no idea if these are exactly correct.

Bud P was "prez" from 2009 to 2019 - In 2009 the budget for GTAA was 56MM - Of the non crummy teams only NCST as bad as GT. Others well ahead of us.

In 2009 we were 5MM behind Clemson and 20MM behind FSU. In his 10 years Bud grew the GTAA budget by 30MM to 85MM (3MM per year - during that time stock market went up 425%, we got ESPN money and so did the other schools). The Clemson deficit increased from 5 to 50MM and FSU deficit increased from 20 to 65MM. We were dead last in the non crummy teams. Despite terrible funding, we went to 2 orange bowls and 1 gator bowl. my opinion follows :Can you imagine how well we would have done if we had real funding. IMO, its clear why CPJ gave up on Gt.

Angle came in 2019 so how have we done while we have a no bowl clown show on field, COVID, 100-0, RED out at UGA game in his 5 years. In 5 years he has increased the budget by 50MM to 134MM, A 50MM increase in 5 years. Our budget is right there with the non crummy teams. The Clemson deficit has grown from 50mm to 60MM while the FSU deficit has shrunk from 65MM to 35MM. I don't know how GT got the money but, thanks to ANGEL we are no longer a bottom of the ACC joke. Long way to go ..... GO JACKETS

 

[WreckinGT]

In Clemson lawsuit news. They have amended their complaint to seek damages against the ACC for misrepresenting the GOR. A South Carolina judge has also ordered the ACC to provide Clemson an unredacted copy of the ESPN media rights agreement.

Clemson seeks damages from ACC over 'misstatements and slander' regarding media rights

In an amended complaint made public Thursday, Clemson seeks damages from the ACC over alleged false statements of its media rights.

www.greenvilleonline.com

 

[stingerman]

I haven't checked any numbers but GT alums seem to do pretty well at giving back to the school. To their Athletic Association, not so much. Does Virginia (the school, not the athletic association) engage their alumni to the extent that they enhance donations to their athletic association?

It would appear from the numbers that they do. But maybe it's driven more by after-effects of the basketball natty and big money donors (e.g., a $40M donation from an anonymous former athlete in 2022, a $25M donation from Breeden in 2023). Thankfully we have had our share of generous wealthy donors too.

 

[yeti92]

In Clemson lawsuit news. They have amended their complaint to seek damages against the ACC for misrepresenting the GOR. A South Carolina judge has also ordered the ACC to provide Clemson an unredacted copy of the ESPN media rights agreement.

Clemson seeks damages from ACC over 'misstatements and slander' regarding media rights

In an amended complaint made public Thursday, Clemson seeks damages from the ACC over alleged false statements of its media rights.

www.greenvilleonline.com

1. What specifically is Clemson claiming the ACC said that hurt them?

2. What happens if the ACC says "No. They can come read it in NC, just like they've always been able to do"?

 

[stinger78]

But nobody expected that to last, it was a period of crazy rights battles and everyone assumed the next time the SEC or Big 10 renewed they’d leapfrog the ACC. The SEC and Big 10 were able to poach from the Big 12 and ACC for a reason then.

The story nationally about the ACC in 2012 wasn’t that it was on the rise. Clemson was showing flashes but also Clemsoning. FSU, Miami, and VT were shadows of theirselves from a decade earlier. (FSU hadn’t had their Winston title.) The ACC is in trouble because of how those three 90s-power-programs have struggled to consistently play at a high level for 20 years, we were already halfway there at that point and it wasn’t seen as just a blip.

The Big 10 wouldn’t have made GT an overnight contender but the worry is that by being shortsighted then we’ve created existential risk of not being in ANY major league once the ACC blows up. And the ACC blowing up eventually was seen as a possibility even then. The schools aren’t as big, the recent results weren’t as good, and the money race was intensifying. It wasn’t complex math.

I just don’t see the ACC blowing up. There are not enough “factory” schools in the conference to do that. I cannot see UNC, NCSU, or UVA ever leaving the conference. I can see F$U and Clemson doing so, but there would still be 15 pretty good to good football programs in the ACC.

 

[WreckinGT]

1. What specifically is Clemson claiming the ACC said that hurt them?

2. What happens if the ACC says "No. They can come read it in NC, just like they've always been able to do"?

1. I believe it goes along with Clemson's argument that the GOR only covers media rights for current members and for what has already been produced. Their argument here is that by falsely promoting the idea that the GOR locks in future media rights, it diminishes the value of Clemson's media rights were they to leave the conference.

2. That would be defying a court order, and they would likely be held in contempt. The penalties for that would be interesting but would likely just be a series of fines until they do provide it. Appealing is probably a better strategy.

 

[WreckinGT]

I just don’t see the ACC blowing up. There are not enough “factory” schools in the conference to do that. I cannot see UNC, NCSU, or UVA ever leaving the conference. I can see F$U and Clemson doing so, but there would still be 15 pretty good to good football programs in the ACC.

UNC and UVA are pretty consistently mentioned as primary candidates for both of the P2 conferences. If FSU and Clemson leave and the ACC payout is decreased, convincing two primary targets to stay and make probably 1/3rd the money is a tough sell.

 

[yeti92]

1. I believe it goes along with Clemson's argument that the GOR only covers media rights for current members and for what has already been produced. Their argument here is that by falsely promoting the idea that the GOR locks in future media rights, it diminishes the value of Clemson's media rights were they to leave the conference.

2. That would be defying a court order, and they would likely be held in contempt. The penalties for that would be interesting but would likely just be a series of fines until they do provide it. Appealing is probably a better strategy.

Yea I wasn't really sure how you hold an organization like the ACC in contempt, but appealing anyway makes sense.

Seems to me none of the judges so far are able to be particularly impartial and all of this needs to be moved to a higher court in another state with unaffiliated judges.

 

[cpf2001]

In a world without the big money makers I can’t see it making sense to anyone mid-tier who’s left to continue to carry the real little guys instead of trying for a big 2 shot or otherwise settling for the Big 12.

 

[jacketup]

UNC and UVA are pretty consistently mentioned as primary candidates for both of the P2 conferences. If FSU and Clemson leave and the ACC payout is decreased, convincing two primary targets to stay and make probably 1/3rd the money is a tough sell.

I'll go on record as saying that the articles about expansion are written by people to get clicks, and they don't know what they are talking about (and they don't care because they just want clicks). First, there is a recency bias in about all of them, but I'll leave that subject alone.

People don't understand that UNC and UVA are not the popular "every man" schools in NC and VA. When the FSU AD did a presentation on size of ACC fan bases, his chart showed that NCST and VT have bigger fan bases than their instate cousins. That is something I have known for a long time, but the clowns writing articles don't know that. They are not analogous to TN, Georgie, UK, etc., or even AL or TX. Or Oregon or Washington for that matter.

If expansion is about eyeballs viewing screens, UNC and UVA don't have the leverage that the people mentioning them think they do. The SEC is only interested in more $$, and UVA and UNC won't deliver. The B1G might take them because of academic reputation as much as for footprint expansion, but people have to remember that Oregon and UW are taking a short term financial hit to join the B1G. I'm biased, but GT has as much going for it as UNC and UVA have in terms of B1G admission, yet we are never mentioned.

I don't see the B1G or SEC expanding anytime soon. The FSU and Clemson suits are about getting a settlement that gives them more of the ACC pie in my opinion, and are not about moving conferences. We will see if the ACC blinks.

 

[orientalnc]

The FSU and Clemson suits are about getting a settlement that gives them more of the ACC pie in my opinion, and are not about moving conferences. We will see if the ACC blinks.

A couple of years ago the ACC revised their distribution formula for post season money, but the ESPN contract is still distributed equally. I will be surprised if Wake and Duke and BC and GT agree to give up money to make FSU and Clemson happy.

 

[bobongo]

The FSU and Clemson suits are about getting a settlement that gives them more of the ACC pie in my opinion, and are not about moving conferences. We will see if the ACC blinks.

The ACC can't blink or it's dead.

A couple of years ago the ACC revised their distribution formula for post season money, but the ESPN contract is still distributed equally. I will be surprised if Wake and Duke and BC and GT agree to give up money to make FSU and Clemson happy.

I'll be surprised as well, and I don't think they should care whether FSU and Clemson are happy. They signed the contract, and they can like it or lump it. Their call.

 

[stinger78]

UNC and UVA are pretty consistently mentioned as primary candidates for both of the P2 conferences. If FSU and Clemson leave and the ACC payout is decreased, convincing two primary targets to stay and make probably 1/3rd the money is a tough sell.

UNC and UVA are among the deepest of blue ACC. They are the hub of the wheel. If they leave the wheels could come off. Being mentioned by a bunch of sportswriters does not equal reality. I’m very doubtful that they value football that much to destroy the decades of value the ACC has been to them. But… I may be wrong. We will see in time.