Collins - Expectations and time to get things right?

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

So we should have no fall off despite a complete overhaul on both sides of the ball?

I think it evens out. We had a lot of people coming back next year and we were poised for a very good year if the QB situation got settled. I think a 9/10 win season was very doable next year with CPJ and company, so a 7/8 win season is a fall off, IMO.

 

[lv20gt]

How much of a fall off did CPJ have when he came to Tech?

CPJ wasn't overhauling the defense and it carried us through most of the 2008 season. He inherited a DL with 3 seniors and all 4 starters were drafted, 2 of which are still playing. We went 11 straight games where we didn't give up more than 28, and 7 were 20 or less. He also inherited arguable our best class of the last 20 years and members of that class were the core of our success along with the senior DL. CGC is overhauling both sides of the ball and doesn't have any stand out class to work with.

I think it evens out. We had a lot of people coming back next year and we were poised for a very good year if the QB situation got settled. I think a 9/10 win season was very doable next year with CPJ and company, so a 7/8 win season is a fall off, IMO.

lmao. 8 wins would be an improvement not a fall off. Sorry but the argument that we were on track for a 10 win season next year flew out the window when we got boat raced by a mediocre Minnesota team. At best you could have reasonable hope that we could get to 9. There was no justification for expectations of 9 wins.

 

[Animal02]

So we should have no fall off despite a complete overhaul on both sides of the ball?

No

CPJ wasn't overhauling the defense and it carried us through most of the 2008 season. He inherited a DL with 3 seniors and all 4 starters were drafted, 2 of which are still playing. We went 11 straight games where we didn't give up more than 28, and 7 were 20 or less. He also inherited arguable our best class of the last 20 years and members of that class were the core of our success along with the senior DL. CGC is overhauling both sides of the ball and doesn't have any stand out class to work with.



lmao. 8 wins would be an improvement not a fall off. Sorry but the argument that we were on track for a 10 win season next year flew out the window when we got boat raced by a mediocre Minnesota team. At best you could have reasonable hope that we could get to 9. There was no justification for expectations of 9 wins.

Minnesota game has nothing to do with the team that would have been fielded in 2019.......but then, that doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[eetech]

NFL draft year - number of GT picks
Keep talking our players down though. They play better with chips on their shoulders.

I'm not talking any of our players down. My only point, which your data illustrates further is that anyone who thought that our recruiting was equally not up to par entering 2008 as opposed to 2019 was clearly not basing it on anything objective. Neither recruiting rankings, nor draft picks, both of which were significantly better in the years leading up to CPJ becoming our coach than the years leading up to Collins becoming our coach.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

CPJ wasn't overhauling the defense and it carried us through most of the 2008 season. He inherited a DL with 3 seniors and all 4 starters were drafted, 2 of which are still playing. We went 11 straight games where we didn't give up more than 28, and 7 were 20 or less. He also inherited arguable our best class of the last 20 years and members of that class were the core of our success along with the senior DL. CGC is overhauling both sides of the ball and doesn't have any stand out class to work with.



lmao. 8 wins would be an improvement not a fall off. Sorry but the argument that we were on track for a 10 win season next year flew out the window when we got boat raced by a mediocre Minnesota team. At best you could have reasonable hope that we could get to 9. There was no justification for expectations of 9 wins.

We got embarrassed by a blah Ole Miss team in a meaningless bowl game in ‘13 and won 11 games and finished #7 in the country in ‘14. We got blown out by a 7 win LSU team in a bowl in ‘08 and won the ACC in ‘09.

Not a single coach coaching in the bowl game was coming back. The players were obviously disappointed in the bowl on Twitter. It’s not a surprise we laid an egg in the bowl. Doesn’t really indicate what kind of team we were all year.

 

[GTonTop88]

I listened. It was similar to the messages he has given before: this is his dream job, we're going to compete for championships, he has to implement his new roster management system, he kept commitments to those who had committed before he came, etc, etc.

My favorite parts were these:
1. At the beginning of the interview, they played the Ramblin Wreck song, and the show's hosts both talked about how much they love the song.
2. One of the questions was (I'm paraphrasing) "When it comes to recruiting, what are you going to do to compete in the Atlanta, Georgia, and southeast recruiting grounds with 'the big boys' (who the host identified as Clemson, UGA, Bama, and Auburn)? The first thing CGC said in response was, "We ARE one of the big boys."

Thank you

 

[jojatk]

We got embarrassed by a blah Ole Miss team in a meaningless bowl game in ‘13 and won 11 games and finished #7 in the country in ‘14. We got blown out by a 7 win LSU team in a bowl in ‘08 and won the ACC in ‘09.

Not a single coach coaching in the bowl game was coming back. The players were obviously disappointed in the bowl on Twitter. It’s not a surprise we laid an egg in the bowl. Doesn’t really indicate what kind of team we were all year.

I agree that the bowl game was a very poor representation of our season. I can't find it in my heart to blame the players or the coaches for the lackluster effort given the circumstances. I'm definitely disappointed in what they put on the field but with all the upheaval I just can't see crushing them for it.

 

[ncjacket79]

We got embarrassed by a blah Ole Miss team in a meaningless bowl game in ‘13 and won 11 games and finished #7 in the country in ‘14. We got blown out by a 7 win LSU team in a bowl in ‘08 and won the ACC in ‘09.

Not a single coach coaching in the bowl game was coming back. The players were obviously disappointed in the bowl on Twitter. It’s not a surprise we laid an egg in the bowl. Doesn’t really indicate what kind of team we were all year.

The common thread was Ole Miss, LSU and Minn physically dominated us. Doesn’t really matter if we think they were blah or not. Therein was the problem CPJ really couldn’t overcome (to be fair most coaches have that problem) because we had no plan b. The real point though is it’s borderline insane to assume a 9-10 win season if he had returned and likewise to expect no problems from the change in systems. Anyone who pays attention should have been planning on that from the day CPJ was hired. IIWII

 

[Animal02]

The common thread was Ole Miss, LSU and Minn physically dominated us. Doesn’t really matter if we think they were blah or not. Therein was the problem CPJ really couldn’t overcome (to be fair most coaches have that problem) because we had no plan b. The real point though is it’s borderline insane to assume a 9-10 win season if he had returned and likewise to expect no problems from the change in systems. Anyone who pays attention should have been planning on that from the day CPJ was hired. IIWII

9-10 wins would not have been unrealistic.......lass to Clemp and Ga, and Clemp again in the ACCCG....bowl game win, one (or two) ugly loss during the season which seemed to be the norm.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I'm not talking any of our players down. My only point, which your data illustrates further is that anyone who thought that our recruiting was equally not up to par entering 2008 as opposed to 2019 was clearly not basing it on anything objective. Neither recruiting rankings, nor draft picks, both of which were significantly better in the years leading up to CPJ becoming our coach than the years leading up to Collins becoming our coach.

You are talking them down when you say the cupboard is bare. Parker Braun is a certain draft pick barring injury next year. Other guys have the ability to play themselves into draft picks. Disagree? If not the cupboard isn’t bare.

I agree CPJ inherited a better group than CGC appears to be inheriting. 2007 team lost a lot of All Conf players as eligibility expired. Gardner and Vance Walker looked like certain future draft picks. Michael Johnson looked to have that ability after playing behind Adam Oliver on the 2nd team. A lot of the rest of the guys drafted later were still unknown commodities heading into 2008 even if promising players.

Next year we have two players that appear to have futures in the NFL. We also have a lot of players with potential to play their way into selections in the future the same way Dwyer, Morgan, Burnett, and Beybey did. Namely Christian Campbell, Benson, Cottrell, Cooper, Camp, and Adams. We have some young freshmen and sophomores that look very promising for our future.

Not a bare cupboard even if not as full as 2008.

2008 we had to completely rebuild the OL and implement an entirely new scheme. QB was a big question mark. There was a lot of doom and gloom about our prospects on offense.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

CPJ wasn't overhauling the defense and it carried us through most of the 2008 season. He inherited a DL with 3 seniors and all 4 starters were drafted, 2 of which are still playing. We went 11 straight games where we didn't give up more than 28, and 7 were 20 or less. He also inherited arguable our best class of the last 20 years and members of that class were the core of our success along with the senior DL. CGC is overhauling both sides of the ball and doesn't have any stand out class to work with.



lmao. 8 wins would be an improvement not a fall off. Sorry but the argument that we were on track for a 10 win season next year flew out the window when we got boat raced by a mediocre Minnesota team. At best you could have reasonable hope that we could get to 9. There was no justification for expectations of 9 wins.

Ordinary I don't make excuses for blowout losses but anyone who didn't see that Minnesota loss coming didn't take seriously the turmoil caused to a team that happens when you lose your entire football staff at one time. If CPJ didn't retire, and assuming he was not burned out on football, then Tech probably wins the bowl and has a good shot at winning 10 games next year. But we will never know now.

I still think installing the flex bone was far more disruptive for a team than installing a more conventional offense. And if everything critics have said in the past is true then installing the flex bone also played havoc with the defense. CPJ achievement was either remarkable or it is what we should expect every time we have a new coach inheritating a team with 7 or more wins.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Using one data point is not a good example f statistics. Any program that can sustain more than 9 wins a season is a championship caliber team. Most can’t. Look it up.

I agree with that, but my original point was that if the payoff is 8-10 wins, why would we agree to endure a tear down when we’re already there?

 

[IM79]

Because Paul Johnson retired. We had to get a new coach.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

The common thread was Ole Miss, LSU and Minn physically dominated us. Doesn’t really matter if we think they were blah or not. Therein was the problem CPJ really couldn’t overcome (to be fair most coaches have that problem) because we had no plan b. The real point though is it’s borderline insane to assume a 9-10 win season if he had returned and likewise to expect no problems from the change in systems. Anyone who pays attention should have been planning on that from the day CPJ was hired. IIWII

We were arguably 3 special team plays away from winning 9 games this year. We blew 4 or 5 double digit second half leads in 2017. We could easily have 9 to 10 wins three years in a row. Insane is definitely a stretch.

 

[alagold]

You are talking them down when you say the cupboard is bare. Parker Braun is a certain draft pick barring injury next year. Other guys have the ability to play themselves into draft picks. Disagree? If not the cupboard isn’t bare.

I agree CPJ inherited a better group than CGC appears to be inheriting. 2007 team lost a lot of All Conf players as eligibility expired. Gardner and Vance Walker looked like certain future draft picks. Michael Johnson looked to have that ability after playing behind Adam Oliver on the 2nd team. A lot of the rest of the guys drafted later were still unknown commodities heading into 2008 even if promising players.

Next year we have two players that appear to have futures in the NFL. We also have a lot of players with potential to play their way into selections in the future the same way Dwyer, Morgan, Burnett, and Beybey did. Namely Christian Campbell, Benson, Cottrell, Cooper, Camp, and Adams. We have some young freshmen and sophomores that look very promising for our future.

Not a bare cupboard even if not as full as 2008.

2008 we had to completely rebuild the OL and implement an entirely new scheme. QB was a big question mark. There was a lot of doom and gloom about our prospects on offense.

WC,
I like our guys also but the idea Campbell ,Cottrell and Camp can be compared to Burnett, Morgan,Dwyer or BeyBey as maybe pros is farfetched.They are possibly not even starters next yr.

 

[lv20gt]

We got embarrassed by a blah Ole Miss team in a meaningless bowl game in ‘13 and won 11 games and finished #7 in the country in ‘14. We got blown out by a 7 win LSU team in a bowl in ‘08 and won the ACC in ‘09.

Not a single coach coaching in the bowl game was coming back. The players were obviously disappointed in the bowl on Twitter. It’s not a surprise we laid an egg in the bowl. Doesn’t really indicate what kind of team we were all year.

We lost to 4 teams that lost 5 or more games by an average of almost 2 TDs. The record of the 6 non FCS teams we beat was 27-36. We didn't beat a team that had fewer than 5 total losses. In fact we only played 2 teams with fewer than 5 losses and managed to not look like an FBS team against either of them. We weren't as bad as the Minn game portrayed all year but we were in no way poised to win 9 next year.

I don't know what your point about '14 and '09 is. Could we win 10 games next year? Sure. Probably. Is there any rational reason to think that we were going to even without a coaching staff change? No. In 09 we were coming off a 9 win season and going into year 2 of a new offense. There was an rational reason to expect the next year to make improvements because it was going with increased experience in the system in year 2 vs year 1. That is the opposite of what we have now going into year 1 of a new system vs year 11 of the old one. 14 was a fluke and there was no reason to expect it based on what we had the previous year. It was a year where the best case scenario happened, or just about, but you shouldn't set your expectations by the best case scenario.

f CPJ didn't retire, and assuming he was not burned out on football, then Tech probably wins the bowl

LMAO there is no basis for the claim that we would have probably won a game we lost by 24 points if Johnson didn't decide to retire.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

WC,
I like our guys also but the idea Campbell ,Cottrell and Camp can be compared to Burnett, Morgan,Dwyer or BeyBey as maybe pros is farfetched.They are possibly not even starters next yr.

Don’t disagree but that’s a wrong comparison. A better comparison would be to Darryl Richard imo. A senior who played himself into a draft pick with solid play his senior year.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

We lost to 4 teams that lost 5 or more games by an average of almost 2 TDs. The record of the 6 non FCS teams we beat was 27-36. We didn't beat a team that had fewer than 5 total losses. In fact we only played 2 teams with fewer than 5 losses and managed to not look like an FBS team against either of them. We weren't as bad as the Minn game portrayed all year but we were in no way poised to win 9 next year.

I don't know what your point about '14 and '09 is. Could we win 10 games next year? Sure. Probably. Is there any rational reason to think that we were going to even without a coaching staff change? No. In 09 we were coming off a 9 win season and going into year 2 of a new offense. There was an rational reason to expect the next year to make improvements because it was going with increased experience in the system in year 2 vs year 1. That is the opposite of what we have now going into year 1 of a new system vs year 11 of the old one. 14 was a fluke and there was no reason to expect it based on what we had the previous year. It was a year where the best case scenario happened, or just about, but you shouldn't set your expectations by the best case scenario.



LMAO there is no basis for the claim that we would have probably won a game we lost by 24 points if Johnson didn't decide to retire.

So you are saying we probably win 10 games next year?

 

[RickStromFan]

I agree with that, but my original point was that if the payoff is 8-10 wins, why would we agree to endure a tear down when we’re already there?

because we clearly weren't already there.

Every year, it was "If this one had gone that way and if that had gone this way, blahblahblah". Every single team deals with that kind of stuff. Fact is, we weren't "a few plays away" in every single loss this year. Fact is, we didn't make key plays repeatedly in 2017. Fact is, we were just as close to a 5-win team as an 8-win one and nowhere near a 10-win team.

It's time to stop making excuses. It's time to move past the CPJ Era.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

We lost to 4 teams that lost 5 or more games by an average of almost 2 TDs. The record of the 6 non FCS teams we beat was 27-36. We didn't beat a team that had fewer than 5 total losses. In fact we only played 2 teams with fewer than 5 losses and managed to not look like an FBS team against either of them. We weren't as bad as the Minn game portrayed all year but we were in no way poised to win 9 next year.

I don't know what your point about '14 and '09 is. Could we win 10 games next year? Sure. Probably. Is there any rational reason to think that we were going to even without a coaching staff change? No. In 09 we were coming off a 9 win season and going into year 2 of a new offense. There was an rational reason to expect the next year to make improvements because it was going with increased experience in the system in year 2 vs year 1. That is the opposite of what we have now going into year 1 of a new system vs year 11 of the old one. 14 was a fluke and there was no reason to expect it based on what we had the previous year. It was a year where the best case scenario happened, or just about, but you shouldn't set your expectations by the best case scenario.



LMAO there is no basis for the claim that we would have probably won a game we lost by 24 points if Johnson didn't decide to retire.

Wow. You don't think coaches being distracted and a team experiencing disruption can get blown out? Not my experience in watching the college game.