College Basketball NIL Discussion

[MtnWasp]

This quuoted post ought to be in a football thread, but I believe the ACC has to establish some hard rules that address the pay for play situations. Wong is clearly saying he is not happy with his contract and wants to renotiate or he isn't playing for Miami. How is this different from an NFL WR not showing up for camp until he gets an extension?

Subsequent to the Ed O'Bannon case, the NCAA has no legal basis to limit player income based on NIL. NIL funds are not coming from any NCAA entity and is merely a contract between the player and an outside party so that the NCAA nor it's members can deny a player that income and expect it to hold-up in court.

The market is the wild west now but it will settle out at some point. the question is what damage will be done before that takes place.

The first thing that has to happen is for NCAA members break into two separate entities, the small budget programs that will continue the traditional student-athlete model and then the semi-pro programs, mostly the SEC & BIG programs who are really the only players where NIL has a sustainable future.

After that, the semi-pro program league will organize their market the same way as any other professional sport: the players will unionize and order will be established through collective bargaining.

 

[MtnWasp]

Something that concerns me about the NIL rules (or lack thereof) is that players are allowed to take money from almost anyone. What keeps a gambler from paying a player to have an off night? That could happened before the NIL rules, but a player who suddenly has money when he had none before stands out with coaches and teammates.

That is called racketeering and is a felony under federal jurisdiction. I'm not sure what further regulation would be needed beyond that.

Over time the market will establish price equilibrium after this initial period on instability. Investors will tire quickly of throwing money away with poor return on investment.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Swarbrick has been making a similar take for 4-5 yrs now, even before NIL and portal rules. His opinion is that there are some schools that want to have an academic student-athlete model and some that just want a semi-pro football model and that those 2 designs are not really compatible (though he has said both are legitimate). So he has been saying for awhile that the ultimate break will be one based on academics. I think there is alot of possibility to what he says. I can also say without hesitation that if it comes to that decision that GT is very likely to choose to be with those schools that want to have a student-athlete model.

I don't think it will be as simple as the P5 breaking away. It likely to be a portion of the P5 breaking away to follow a semi-pro model, a P5 group of academic schools - likely joined by some G5 schools that want to move up and play in that SA model and then a lower group of schools likely to use an SA model but at a lower budget level.

I think state BOR's are going to have something to say about some of those schools that might want to go the pro direction.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Then he shouldn't be crying about it should he?!

He's not crying about the contract he currently has. He's not exclusive. He wants the school to drum up some additional NIL $$$ from other sources to get him to stay.

Additionally, NIL $$$ cannot be tied to a particular school or it is inducement (duh, we all know it is happening), so he can transfer and keep working for the same NIL $$.

 

[YlJacket]

He's not crying about the contract he currently has. He's not exclusive. He wants the school to drum up some additional NIL $$$ from other sources to get him to stay.

Additionally, NIL $$$ cannot be tied to a particular school or it is inducement (duh, we all know it is happening), so he can transfer and keep working for the same NIL $$.

I don't think that is correct. Any endorsement contract can have stipulations that the contract requires the endorser meet specific obligations such as be on a particular TV show, attend a certain school, etc. That is part of what brings value to the arrangement. And specific to NIL deals, schools such as TX A&M have funds set up with the express requirement recipients be at TX A&M. There isn't anything that requires a student to stay at a specific school but on the other side there won't be anything that prevents the agreement from being terminated if the person leaves a particular school.

FWIW, the FL law stipulates that the agreement has to be with an entity outside the university or AA. So the agent isn't talking to the coaches directly. That also keeps it out of reach of the NCAA - if they did have any desire to try to adjudicate the agreement.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[RyanS12]

Not sure how much he’s making currently but 800k to match what Peck got is crazy. Neither of them are worth that much honestly. And I doubt Wong gets the freed back from the NBA he’s hoping for. Should be an interesting locker room in Coral Gables this winter.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[YlJacket]

Not sure how much he’s making currently but 800k to match what Peck got is crazy. Neither of them are worth that much honestly. And I doubt Wong gets the freed back from the NBA he’s hoping for. Should be an interesting locker room in Coral Gables this winter.

Peck is $800K for 2 years. Wong is reportedly $80K per year from the same guy. Nice to have leverage at the top of the portal rankings

Laranaga is going to have his hands full with this locker room

 

[RyanS12]

Peck is $800K for 2 years. Wong is reportedly $80K per year from the same guy. Nice to have leverage at the top of the portal rankings

Laranaga is going to have his hands full with this locker room

I can see guys like Laranaga and the older generation retiring soon from the drama the NILand portal are causing. It’s full on free agency now. I’m not sure they’re cut out for this new era we’re heading into.

 

[YlJacket]

I have second hand info that Roy and K called it quits in large part due to that drama. Their time was close to up - no question - just accelerated it

 

[slugboy]

I think this is a good writeup by CBS of Miami's NIL flap with Isaiah Wong and Nigel Pack and John Ruiz:

'I don't know what the solution is': Isaiah Wong's money demands exposed college sports' complicated NIL issue

There is a distinct difference between NIL rights and pay-for-play advocacy and the latter is taking over in college sports

www.cbssports.com

Wong had a great tournament for Miami. He's getting great NIL money from Ruiz.
Ruiz arranges a contract for even more NIL money to get Nigel Pack to come to Miami.
Wong is sitting there thinking "this other guy hasn't done anything for Miami yet, and he's getting more money than ME. This doesn't seem fair. Why am I staying here?"

It's not just Miami -- Norlander pulls in other examples, including Wichita State.

He also gives two reasons for the “wild west” atmosphere—lack of contracts and lack of unions.

 

[slugboy]

Popular topic—Dan Wolken in an op-ed calling for contracts and calling athletes employees:

Basketball player holding Miami, booster hostage, and it's the NCAA's fault | Opinion

Isaiah Wong says he will leave Miami basketball if his NIL deal isn't increased after new teammate Nijel Pack scored $800,000 to bolt Kansas State.

www.usatoday.com

 

[dtm1997]

 

[CuseJacket]

Matt Norlander piece

'I don't know what the solution is': Isaiah Wong's money demands exposed college sports' complicated NIL issue

There is a distinct difference between NIL rights and pay-for-play advocacy and the latter is taking over in college sports

www.cbssports.com

"Any kid entering the portal starting in the last 72 hours, it is 1,000% about leverage," one coach at a highly ranked program said. "What all of the sudden changed with your situation to make you do this now? It's because, in 48 hours, I have no leverage."

Said an ACC coach: "There's no education on how we are allowed to handle this, or at least the education that's been given is awful. The way the rules are designed right now make zero sense."

On Thursday night free agency truly arrived on a public stage in college sports. It was so drastic, it had one veteran coach pining for the old days.

"Why can't we go back to how it was," the coach said. "Just have someone drop a bag, go back to when it was cheating before. I like that world."

 

[kg01]

I have second hand info that Roy and K called it quits in large part due to that drama. Their time was close to up - no question - just accelerated it

Nice to see all these pillars(sic) of the sport gettin' out while the gettin's good.

Nothing like leaders(sic) abandoning the sport at perhaps it's greatest time of need.

 

[Fatmike91]

ridiculous take.

/

 

[dtm1997]

ridiculous take.

/

Which part?

 

[kg01]

Which part?

To me, it reads as if he's suggesting fans' desires are more important than human athletes' rights.

 

[slugboy]

It’s flattering to the NCAA that Mandel writes that they’re supporting the fan’s interest instead of saying that they’re defending the incomes of athletic departments.

@kg01 I don’t think Mandel is saying that fan’s rights are more important than athlete’s rights. I think he’s misguided or just wrong in saying it’s “fan’s rights” though.

David Hale had a take on it (and other people did too. No one is as flattering to the NCAA as Mandel)