Coastal Race Going Into Week 12

GTNavyNuke

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CPJ has said each year that we are getting better 1-85 players(more depth). That means the classes before weren't as good as the more recent ones. CPJ wouldn't insult the kids he just recruited so he said all he could.

A 8 win season this year would be a success to me given how the team has played with intensity. We will finish up with between 8 and 12 wins. CPJ is more than safe right now, he is going to get an extension IMHO. We knew from off season attrition that our DL would have trouble. The rest of the team has been very solid.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Glad to have former players on the board who know what they are talking about!!

I agree with the sentiment about CPJ (Atomic doesn't bother me) and I had a thread to try and put CPJ into perspective. http://gtswarm.com/threads/70-years-of-gt-football-–-comparing-teams-under-different-coaches.2501/

Anyway, CPJ has by my records the fourth best GT all time winning percentage - which is pretty good. Heisman was the best at 74% (108-29-7), Dodd was next at 72% (165-64-8), O'Leary next at 64% (53-30) and CPJ next at 62% (55-34). FWIW, the 62% includes the 8-2 start this year; CPJ teams were 59% through the end of last year. If CPJ can overtake O'Leary, that will be pretty impressive!
Where does Alexander fit in here?
 

GTNavyNuke

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@Northeast Stinger Alexander was about 55%. (134-95-15)

Maybe next year, I'll do GT football rankings starting in 1902 to 1965 (through Dodd). Can also do win/losses since 1892, but J Howell only has GT in the ranking data starting in 1902.

Looking back there were several decade long periods where we had the "alabama" of football. And like 6 times were statistically #1. Just in the last 70 years we were ranked by J Howell #1 - 1951, 1952 and 1990. So yes, ranking controversy has probably been around since 1892!
 

daBuzz

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I'm not Paul. I can and did use it. I always love it when someone tells me what I can't do! He has a valid point concerning how a service rates one player as the #21 guard prospect and there is no way of knowing the difference from #35 . Always love his thoughts on the experts that have never coached and if they were good they would have their on team. Not very sure you are very good at this evaluation game either.

Well, I'm not going to get into the CPJ good or bad pissing match. I've made my opinions on that clear before and I'm not sure anything I say will change anyone's mind so I'll hold that part in.

But I will weigh in on the "recruiting rankings" argument. In that case, I disagree with the statement above.

If you don't think recruiting rankings matter, I would offer Ole Miss as example of what highly ranked recruiting classes will do for your program. A program that has been miserable since Christ wore short pants is now one that has been a big part of the new playoff discussion for many weeks. Do you think that it's a coincidence that this happens after they pulled in a #1 and a #7 ranked recruiting class over the past 2 years?

Yes, the recruits are often graded by people like Kelly Quinlan and Jamie Newburgh who may have never played football. But there are also scouts and people on staff who have played and have played at very high levels. Also, learning to evaluate talent is a skill set that is most definitely learned and just having played the game does not ensure that you are any better at it than one who has not played the game.

Do the rankings miss on some players? Absolutely. Some they rank too high; many they rank too low. But remember that football doesn't have the advantages of baseball & basketball. Elite baseball players who play for small, private schools against potentially poor HS competition will usually also play on travel ball teams where they'll match up against players from the largest and/or best programs in the country. So college coaches get to see how they match up. The same happens for basketball with AAU. But with football, there's more uncertainty.

I remember reading that many college coaches weren't sure how good Herschel Walker would be when he got to college because he had played against Georgia single A high schools...where there weren't a ton of great players. A few were even famously quoted as saying, "Let's see how good he is when he can't just run over people like he does in high school". (Remember those were college coaches saying that...people who had "played the game".)

Finally, I'll add that top ranked recruiting classes don't guarantee success as a program. You still need good coaching, buy in from the players, hard work and a good bit of luck. But, do I think recruiting rankings matter? Yes, I do. And FWIW, Paul does too in private; although I'm fairly sure you won't hear him say that in public.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Well, I'm not going to get into the CPJ good or bad pissing match. I've made my opinions on that clear before and I'm not sure anything I say will change anyone's mind so I'll hold that part in.

But I will weigh in on the "recruiting rankings" argument. In that case, I disagree with the statement above.

If you don't think recruiting rankings matter, I would offer Ole Miss as example of what highly ranked recruiting classes will do for your program. A program that has been miserable since Christ wore short pants is now one that has been a big part of the new playoff discussion for many weeks. Do you think that it's a coincidence that this happens after they pulled in a #1 and a #7 ranked recruiting class over the past 2 years?

Yes, the recruits are often graded by people like Kelly Quinlan and Jamie Newburgh who may have never played football. But there are also scouts and people on staff who have played and have played at very high levels. Also, learning to evaluate talent is a skill set that is most definitely learned and just having played the game does not ensure that you are any better at it than one who has not played the game.

Do the rankings miss on some players? Absolutely. Some they rank too high; many they rank too low. But remember that football doesn't have the advantages of baseball & basketball. Elite baseball players who play for small, private schools against potentially poor HS competition will usually also play on travel ball teams where they'll match up against players from the largest and/or best programs in the country. So college coaches get to see how they match up. The same happens for basketball with AAU. But with football, there's more uncertainty.

I remember reading that many college coaches weren't sure how good Herschel Walker would be when he got to college because he had played against Georgia single A high schools...where there weren't a ton of great players. A few were even famously quoted as saying, "Let's see how good he is when he can't just run over people like he does in high school". (Remember those were college coaches saying that...people who had "played the game".)

Finally, I'll add that top ranked recruiting classes don't guarantee success as a program. You still need good coaching, buy in from the players, hard work and a good bit of luck. But, do I think recruiting rankings matter? Yes, I do. And FWIW, Paul does too in private; although I'm fairly sure you won't hear him say that in public.
Hard to argue with the points you made but I would want us to be careful not to set up straw arguments. I don't recall CPJ ever suggesting that getting a number one rated recruiting class was unimportant. All he has ever said is that these scouts do not have time to watch several thousand athletes in person and therefore we should take it with a grain of salt when a player is rated the 126th best player at his position in the country. You have to admit he has a point. After you get past the top twenty players at a given position you are kind of guessing on the small nuances of difference in the remaining 300 or so players. We have seen the last few years, with regard to Tech recruiting, that there is sometimes a little bit of group think by scouts when it comes to recruits. Some of this is directly related to the SEC hype machine. Simply put, if Alabama offers, the player must be good. If Alabama does not offer, the player must not be quite as good. Some teams in recent years have done an exceptional job of finding good players who were not highly ranked. Utah and Boise State have kind of made a thing out of beating big time college programs while stocking their rosters with recruiting classes that do not even make the top 50 in the nation.

Anyway, it is not either or, in my opinion. No one, not even CPJ, is saying recruiting rankings don't matter. Rather we have to recognize that Tech is probably going to be one of those schools that can occasionally get really good recruiting classes that are not actually rated as really good. In this regard one prediction that CPJ made a few years ago has come true. He said, basically, wait until we have a large number of players in our recruiting class and you will see us jump 20 places or so in the rankings." He was right.
 

Atomic Jacket

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I give us about a 15% chance of beating Georgia. This season has been better than expected. But who will be smiling after getting beaten down, possibly blown out, by Georgia in 2 weeks? In some ways, Tech's program is held down by having the Georgia game at the end of the season, because the last thing Tech fans remember before heading into post-season, more often than not, is a rude beating by the arch-rival Bulldogs. That can't be good for the overall psyche, and possibly helps explain Tech's pitiful numbers of fans as compared to teams with comparable overall records. If we're going to go ahead and settle for getting beat by Georgia 95% of the time, then we ought to at least insist the game be somewhere near the start of the season, so its memories can be replaced by victories by the season's end.
 

croberts

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If Johnson had been aware that recruiting was not good enough, why is the GTAA only now giving Johnson the "recruiting staff" he's asking for? These are problems that any coach should recognize early on and have acted on. If the GTAA is only now giving him what he needs, then obviously he wasn't doing his job early on to convince the GTAA what he needed. Guys, we're talking what, 7 years now?

But I'm not going to concede yet that Johnson has admitted recruiting has not been good enough. Where is a quote to this effect? If it's out there, I haven't seen it. All I've seen is praise for the recruiting classes and words to the effect that we've been getting what we needed every year.
I am done. Such a tool!
 

AtWork

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I like the fact that we are 9-2 and we still have a "sky is falling" person and "we won't win against UGA." Seriously, I don't know how these kids are winning! From watching 3 games in person and the rest on tv they pass the eyeball test. Maybe not all the time but they pass. Funny thing is uga has been doing the same thing we have. I would put our two losses above theirs but, just like Tech, uga has been up and down and defense has been an issue. I know we have more than a shot at beating uga and they should be concerned because we are playing better ball now than we have all year.

Go Jackets!

Beat the dawgs!
 

Animal02

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For a team that was picked to finish 13th in the ACC.....we are guaranteed to finish tied for first in the coastal and tied for 2nd overall in the regular season........I will be smiling about that straight through till next fall......regardless of what happens in two weeks, potentially in three weeks, and somewhere around the beginning of the year.
 

Boomergump

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I give us about a 15% chance of beating Georgia. This season has been better than expected. But who will be smiling after getting beaten down, possibly blown out, by Georgia in 2 weeks? In some ways, Tech's program is held down by having the Georgia game at the end of the season, because the last thing Tech fans remember before heading into post-season, more often than not, is a rude beating by the arch-rival Bulldogs. That can't be good for the overall psyche, and possibly helps explain Tech's pitiful numbers of fans as compared to teams with comparable overall records. If we're going to go ahead and settle for getting beat by Georgia 95% of the time, then we ought to at least insist the game be somewhere near the start of the season, so its memories can be replaced by victories by the season's end.
I forget how much of a chance you gave us to beat Clemson, but I am too lazy to go back and look. UGA is not a good match up for us. That is for sure. However, this is a rivalry game and the character of this team is that they find ways to win. I don't see us as a favorite, but I would at least double the percentage you quoted. I didn't bat 30% for TECH as a baseball player, but you know what, every time I stepped in the box I did it with the idea in mind that I was going to get a hit. It is just all in how you look at it.
 

ClydeBrick

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I give us about a 15% chance of beating Georgia. This season has been better than expected. But who will be smiling after getting beaten down, possibly blown out, by Georgia in 2 weeks? In some ways, Tech's program is held down by having the Georgia game at the end of the season, because the last thing Tech fans remember before heading into post-season, more often than not, is a rude beating by the arch-rival Bulldogs. That can't be good for the overall psyche, and possibly helps explain Tech's pitiful numbers of fans as compared to teams with comparable overall records. If we're going to go ahead and settle for getting beat by Georgia 95% of the time, then we ought to at least insist the game be somewhere near the start of the season, so its memories can be replaced by victories by the season's end.

Now I feel even better about the UGAg game.

I will even give you a like for your post because what you are doing, based on what Bud Light tells us; "it's only weird if it doesn't work".



THWG

Give 'em Hell Tech!
 
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Northeast Stinger

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Now I feel even better about the UGAg game.

I will even give you a like for your post because what you are doing, based on what Bud Light tells us; "it's only weird if it doesn't work".



THWG

Give 'em Hell Tech!

Funny you should say that. When I really want Tech to win I pick against them in "the office pool." That way the gods do not catch me wanting something too badly and jinx the team. I am glad we have someone on here who keeps predicting losses over and over and over and over again. If he had only been a little more consistent we would have been undefeated by now.
 

COJacket

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I give us about a 15% chance of beating Georgia. This season has been better than expected. But who will be smiling after getting beaten down, possibly blown out, by Georgia in 2 weeks? In some ways, Tech's program is held down by having the Georgia game at the end of the season, because the last thing Tech fans remember before heading into post-season, more often than not, is a rude beating by the arch-rival Bulldogs. That can't be good for the overall psyche, and possibly helps explain Tech's pitiful numbers of fans as compared to teams with comparable overall records. If we're going to go ahead and settle for getting beat by Georgia 95% of the time, then we ought to at least insist the game be somewhere near the start of the season, so its memories can be replaced by victories by the season's end.
I won't be smiling if we get beat in 2 weeks. BUT unlike you, what I will be is REALLY PROUD to be a Jacket and having this team and our coach represent GT. They have been exciting, hard working, resilient and getting better each week. This team is behind their coach and busting their butts for each other. That moment on the field when Broderick went down, and the whole team circled up around him says it all. Only you could be unhappy after beating a ranked Clemson team. You have been WRONG week after week and then you come on here and act like you are smarter than the average bear. UGA is really good this year. And, whatever happens, I LOVE THIS TEAM!
 

jeffgt14

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I give us about a 15% chance of beating Georgia. This season has been better than expected. But who will be smiling after getting beaten down, possibly blown out, by Georgia in 2 weeks? In some ways, Tech's program is held down by having the Georgia game at the end of the season, because the last thing Tech fans remember before heading into post-season, more often than not, is a rude beating by the arch-rival Bulldogs. That can't be good for the overall psyche, and possibly helps explain Tech's pitiful numbers of fans as compared to teams with comparable overall records. If we're going to go ahead and settle for getting beat by Georgia 95% of the time, then we ought to at least insist the game be somewhere near the start of the season, so its memories can be replaced by victories by the season's end.
Bump again...
 

ClydeBrick

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I give us about a 15% chance of beating Georgia. This season has been better than expected. But who will be smiling after getting beaten down, possibly blown out, by Georgia in 2 weeks? In some ways, Tech's program is held down by having the Georgia game at the end of the season, because the last thing Tech fans remember before heading into post-season, more often than not, is a rude beating by the arch-rival Bulldogs. That can't be good for the overall psyche, and possibly helps explain Tech's pitiful numbers of fans as compared to teams with comparable overall records. If we're going to go ahead and settle for getting beat by Georgia 95% of the time, then we ought to at least insist the game be somewhere near the start of the season, so its memories can be replaced by victories by the season's end.

Now I feel even better about the UGAg game.

I will even give you a like for your post because what you are doing, based on what Bud Light tells us; "it's only weird if it doesn't work".

THWG
Give 'em Hell Tech!

My man Atomic coming thru for GT! Keep up the good work.
 
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