Coaching Carousel 6 - You can't make everyone happy. You are not bacon.

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
I know I’ll get blasted, but I think we should extend Coach Pastner’s contract and give Wilkins and Reveno a raise. I’m not opposed to a two year extension for CJP.

You shouldn't be put on blast. I actually expect a new contract entirely (or maybe a big rework). Keep in mind an extension isn't just something we can unilaterally do. He'd have to agree to it and I expect he'd view now as a good time to go back to the table overall rather than just kick the can two years down the road. While I think its completely within his character normally, I do suspect that contract negotiations is one of the reasons he has been super eager to talk about things that we have done that we haven't accomplished in a decade plus. Pastner may be a goof, but he's meticulous and savvy in his own way.

All in all, a 2 year extension would probably give him pretty confident that he'd get 2 more years but not completely safe (it'd basically be akin to the chances he was going to get fired after year 3 when he was hired). I would expect him to push for terms that makes him feel safe in getting at least 3 more years. Of course, he could also kick the can down the road as somewhat of a bet on himself to overperform next year and set himself up for a big pay day. Who knows.

It'll be an interesting off season topic for sure. Regardless I think at this point some sort of extension is more or less guaranteed.
 

Pointer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,801
Nothing to 'blast' about that. The crew's done a good job these last 2 years, no denying that.

That said, I'd be more apt to take the entire tenure into account before making any crazy commitments.

Youngest coach in the conference with a very affordable contract. Recruiting is on the uptick. Back to back 10 win seasons. Current contract is through 22-23. New get old stay old recruits want to commit to a coach for 4 years (even though this is probably not important for high level recruits). I’m not ready to offer a Hewitt contract or anything.

Both good points. Leaning towards kg01's side just because I'm not sure there's a direct need right away. Even with the recent uptick, I don't think anyone is coming after Pastner soon.

And this is not meant as a slight towards him, its just we've had a history of ill-timed extensions here. I don't see the urgent need for one right now. I could see it being discussed more next year if things continue the way they have.

I really like CJP just fyi.
 

MountainBuzzMan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,707
Location
South Forsyth
Both good points. Leaning towards kg01's side just because I'm not sure there's a direct need right away. Even with the recent uptick, I don't think anyone is coming after Pastner soon.

And this is not meant as a slight towards him, its just we've had a history of ill-timed extensions here. I don't see the urgent need for one right now. I could see it being discussed more next year if things continue the way they have.

I really like CJP just fyi.
The only reason why I would add a 2 year extension is recruiting is picking up and he is showing really good signs of traction in the win catagory. You want the recruits to not worry about a coaching change while they are here. Anything that helps recruiting while not doing anything even close to a blewitt contract I am in favor of.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
And this is not meant as a slight towards him, its just we've had a history of ill-timed extensions here.

Our problems with extensions have been we've been cheap. We went cheap when trying to extend Hewitt which is what led to the roll over clause mistake. We made the mistake of going after a "proven" coach and trying to be cheap and that led to the Gregory mistake. At least with Pastner we went cheap in a smart way getting another party to help foot the bill.

Going cheap and telling Pastner to basically be happy with what he has because nobody else wants him is a great way to make another mistake and have him leave us at the first good offer if he overperforms next year the way he did in year 1. If that's our response after the last 2 years then we deserve to go back to the basement.

That doesn't mean we break the bank and treat him like he's Coach K or Roy Williams, but now is not the time to be cheap just as we have the most positivity surrounding our program probably since 2005.
 

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
Messages
15,170
Location
Atlanta
Both good points. Leaning towards kg01's side just because I'm not sure there's a direct need right away. Even with the recent uptick, I don't think anyone is coming after Pastner soon.

And this is not meant as a slight towards him, its just we've had a history of ill-timed extensions here. I don't see the urgent need for one right now. I could see it being discussed more next year if things continue the way they have.

I really like CJP just fyi.

Lean to kg's side 'cause kg's always right, amirite? :cool:

Seriously though, I could see other schools coming after him. Not that he'll be first on their list but, if AZ or KY (well, maybe not KY) make a change .... I'm just saying it wouldn't shock me that either one of those would want a guy as clean(ish) as Pastner. He's a good combo of clean(ish), high-level, and attainable.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,491
You shouldn't be put on blast. I actually expect a new contract entirely (or maybe a big rework). Keep in mind an extension isn't just something we can unilaterally do. He'd have to agree to it and I expect he'd view now as a good time to go back to the table overall rather than just kick the can two years down the road. While I think its completely within his character normally, I do suspect that contract negotiations is one of the reasons he has been super eager to talk about things that we have done that we haven't accomplished in a decade plus. Pastner may be a goof, but he's meticulous and savvy in his own way.

All in all, a 2 year extension would probably give him pretty confident that he'd get 2 more years but not completely safe (it'd basically be akin to the chances he was going to get fired after year 3 when he was hired). I would expect him to push for terms that makes him feel safe in getting at least 3 more years. Of course, he could also kick the can down the road as somewhat of a bet on himself to overperform next year and set himself up for a big pay day. Who knows.

It'll be an interesting off season topic for sure. Regardless I think at this point some sort of extension is more or less guaranteed.
Pastner stated publicly within the past few weeks that he's gotten tremendous support from Stansbury over the past few seasons. He didn't mention it, but there are a lot of ADs who would have cut him loose during the Ron Bell snafu.
However, it's a salary negotiation. A lot of warm fuzzy aspects will be put just a little to the side. I expect Pastner to ask for resources and maybe money and definitely time. It's a horrible time to negotiate, because virtually every program has been hit hard over the last 18 months. Very few athletic departments are flush, and the ones that are will probably have an entrenched and successful coaching staff.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
Pastner stated publicly within the past few weeks that he's gotten tremendous support from Stansbury over the past few seasons. He didn't mention it, but there are a lot of ADs who would have cut him loose during the Ron Bell snafu.
However, it's a salary negotiation. A lot of warm fuzzy aspects will be put just a little to the side. I expect Pastner to ask for resources and maybe money and definitely time. It's a horrible time to negotiate, because virtually every program has been hit hard over the last 18 months. Very few athletic departments are flush, and the ones that are will probably have an entrenched and successful coaching staff.

You are right that a lot of warm and fuzzies will be put to the side and it is really not a good time to be negotiating with Ga Tech's AA or most any other AA short of Ohio State. Pastner's timing is good in that this is the most optimism this program has had for a while, but a coach who took 5 years to get to the tourney (I expect we do this year) and had the Uh Ohs he did during that run is not going to be the prime contender for another P5 job - certainly not a "better" P5 job than GT so I don't think there is much risk that we are negotiating against anyone. And whatever gold colored lenses we want to use for the talent coming back/in next year, we are almost certainly seeing 80% of this year's production not coming back. Future results are a bit on the come.

Having said that, I do expect he will (and should) get an extension. But I don't think this is a time that GT is going to go all in or really very far in as far as big bumps or major commitments. They would have trouble doing that and quite honestly IMHO it isn't warranted yet. I expect he will get a couple of years with a nice bump over this year. In this environment I think that is actually pretty good for both sides and not being cheap.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
Pastner stated publicly within the past few weeks that he's gotten tremendous support from Stansbury over the past few seasons. He didn't mention it, but there are a lot of ADs who would have cut him loose during the Ron Bell snafu.

Well, yeah. He's going to say that regardless, and he probably has gotten a lot of support. I expect him to keep getting that support and that will include a sizeable extension/rework of a contract. I think TStan like Pastner and wants to keep continuity in the basketball program right now, so I doubt he would play hardball too much.

As far as the Ron Bell thing, you might be right. But without rehashing that entire saga, by now it's pretty obvious that Pastner was guilty of being naïve and trying to be a good person, while primarily being the victim of a con artist who tried to black mail, ruin his career, and frame him for rape. I'm not sure if I would view not firing him as some sort of charitable act. Seems to me basic decency would dictate that. Unfortunately at the time we had fans in our fanbase who wanted him gone so bad that they tried to distort the situation. Even more unfortunately those fans are still probably around waiting for a mess up just to pop back up.

It's a horrible time to negotiate, because virtually every program has been hit hard over the last 18 months. Very few athletic departments are flush, and the ones that are will probably have an entrenched and successful coaching staff.

It depends on what you are negotiating for. It's probably a horrible time if you're trying to get a flat raise. However, if you are trying to get job security it's probably a great time. Not only can you use the reluctance to give a raise to leverage more clauses that make early termination less appealing, but without the money it is harder to make an early termination to begin with so those clauses will be even more secure than they might normally.

Pastner's timing is good in that this is the most optimism this program has had for a while, but a coach who took 5 years to get to the tourney (I expect we do this year) and had the Uh Ohs he did during that run is not going to be the prime contender for another P5 job - certainly not a "better" P5 job than GT so I don't think there is much risk that we are negotiating against anyone.

I'm not sure if ADs would view it the same way. Pastner in year 1 won ACC CoY severely overperforming expectations. Year 2 and year 3 were regressions from that, but they seem so bad in large part because of the success in year 1. Had Pastner gone 0-18 year one, then 6-12, 6-12, 11-9, and now 10-6 it's a very clear building of a program from a terrible place. And logically, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to see it that sequence, with a worse year 1, as better than the sequence we got. Obviously with the benefit of retrospect we are less likely to view that year 1 success as a fluke now than we were 2 years ago but yeah, we have that advantage now. I also don't think taking 5 years is really that long. It obviously depends on the situation. When we fired Hewitt we did so because he didn't get enough out of the talent that was there. It shouldn't take 5 years in that situation. When we fired Gregory it was in large part due to the bad roster building that left us in a situation where we were projected to win 0 games. We've seen similar situations at a couple places in the ACC recently. Most of those times those projections are accurate for a reason. In that situation taking 5 years is understandable, especially when year 4 might have been a tourney year except for an untimely injury to our star PG.

Overall, I doubt he'd be the top choice for a top opening this year, but even top openings don't always get their top choice. Mike White at UF is a pretty good example. Arizona is the obvious biggest threat that would have reasons to be interested in him, but I wouldn't underestimate the appeal of a young coach who has 5 years of experience in a P5 conference and looks to have done a good job of building a program from a very low place. I also think that changes if he overperforms next year similar to year 1 when the program lost a lot of pieces. I think he would be a very hot commodity then especially if we do a small punt the decision type of move.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,917
Pastner needs a two year extension to give him 3 years for recruiting and reward for building this team. I think next year will be tough if most of his team leave. If Usher and Devoe come back we will be decent but nothing like this year. If Pastner is happy at GT with his situation and the city of Atlanta then that always helps . He needs to get his assistants $ bumps as well. Let's hope the staff likes being at GT as well. Overall team development has been good.
 

Backstreetbuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
520
I don’t get the feeling Pastner is out to get rich from Georgia Tech. I don’t think he has the super ego of a lot of coaches. I think being successful is more important to him than making huge money.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
Pastner gets a $500k retention bonus if he’s the coach at the end of next season. That’s on top of a $2.2M salary next year, $2.4M the next year. He’s not being paid poorly.

GT is notoriously bad at negotiating salaries of it’s Men’s Coaches, basketball in particular. We really should hire someone to keep us from getting our asses handed to us again. I was critical of the Pastner hire because we total botched the Gregory departure (2nd basketball coach debacle in a row, maybe 3 if you count Cremins’ ending) & found ourselves with no other option than him. Then he had trouble recruiting, we had the scandals including the Ron Bell ****show plus we were staring at a momentous rebuild in the aftermath of Gregory. Stansbury looks prophetic now because he retained Pastner (maybe he had no choice) when we probably could have released him for cause, we’ve had back to back good ACC seasons (been eons) & thankfully we’ve had no more off-court distractions.

$2.5M is about midpoint in the ACC. Before GT starts talking about anything other than extending Pastner’s contract he needs to start putting butts in the seats. This is a business after all & it’s not all love of the game. If he can add a couple thousand to our average attendance for the ACC games and another 1k for the nonconference games his share of that revenue probably warrants a midpoint ACC salary. Show me the money.

We’ve seen with the right support from his assistants he can coach competitively in the ACC when it’s not absolutely loaded with top tier talent. Can he recruit well enough to do well when the ACC is strong is another matter. There’s one thing that is proven, Pastner got this team playing as well as they’ve played in many moons. His teams play smart & hard, something we expect from GT teams but don’t always get. He deserves that credit for 2 consecutive successful years because it has been no easy feat. That is worth something, at least a modest extension as a show of support.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,917
We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that several ACC coaches are getting on in age. Coach K is 74 this year. I think Roy is around 70. Hamilton is over 70. Boeheim is over 70. Miami might make a change after this year so will leave them out. So if Pastner is still at GT with a highly competitive program in 3 to 4 years there will be several of these programs in transition just on age alone. Gets harder to recruit when kids don't know how long a coach will be there.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that several ACC coaches are getting on in age. Coach K is 74 this year. I think Roy is around 70. Hamilton is over 70. Boeheim is over 70. Miami might make a change after this year so will leave them out.

This is going to open up an interesting opportunity for the ACC power dynamic to really change. Several teams have relatively young coaches (in the 40s or early 50s) that could potentially establish those programs as long term top tier teams once the above leave (or even as they start to decline).
 
Top