Coaching Carousel 5 - You have to look through the rain to see the rainbow

Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,390
I'd take Beilein in a heartbeat. His system doesn't depend on 5 star one and dones...and I went back and checked on Michigan's recruits since 2009, and Beilein only signed one 5 star in that span: Glen Robinson JR. He's pretty consistent with getting one or two 4 stars a year, but his average class is usually around 4-6 ranked in the Big Ten. The guy has averaged 20+ wins during his time in Michigan, and only missed the tournament 3 of his 13 years there. We're talking NCAA tournament, not NIT. In fact, he's had as many 30+ win seasons as the number of years he's missed the NCAAT.

Only caveat is how those "thug" comments will play out in recruiting. Charles Barkley was pretty adamant that the players in Cleveland were more to blame for making it a bigger issue than it really was...and pretty much said Beilein wasn't all together wrong.

https://sports.yahoo.com/charles-ba...reatment-of-john-beilein-fired-045643610.html
 
Milwaukee

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Techster said:
I'd take Beilein in a heartbeat. His system doesn't depend on 5 star one and dones...and I went back and checked on Michigan's recruits since 2009, and Beilein only signed one 5 star in that span: Glen Robinson JR. He's pretty consistent with getting one or two 4 stars a year, but his average class is usually around 4-6 ranked in the Big Ten. The guy has averaged 20+ wins during his time in Michigan, and only missed the tournament 3 of his 13 years there. We're talking NCAA tournament, not NIT. In fact, he's had as many 30+ win seasons as the number of years he's missed the NCAAT.

Only caveat is how those "thug" comments will play out in recruiting. Charles Barkley was pretty adamant that the players in Cleveland were more to blame for making it a bigger issue than it really was...and pretty much said Beilein wasn't all together wrong.

https://sports.yahoo.com/charles-ba...reatment-of-john-beilein-fired-045643610.html
Click to expand...

I love Beilein and think he’s one of the best cbb coaches of our generation, but he’s out of touch with the current state of hoops. Not just the thug comment, the entire team in CLE stopped listening to him after only 3 weeks on the job. They were actively mocking him in his presence in the locker room and making fun of him in front of him. Now, is that a ****ty thing to do? Yes. But his players had zero respect for him since probably day 3 on the job which tells you all you need to know about his presence with current players. I’ve listened to multiple pods where they dive deep into this matter and it’s not good. He is completely old school/out of touch. It’s sad for the fans because he’s one of the best minds in all of hoops imo.
 

tbglover

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
741
Milwaukee said:
I love Beilein and think he’s one of the best cbb coaches of our generation, but he’s out of touch with the current state of hoops. Not just the thug comment, the entire team in CLE stopped listening to him after only 3 weeks on the job. They were actively mocking him in his presence in the locker room and making fun of him in front of him. Now, is that a ****ty thing to do? Yes. But his players had zero respect for him since probably day 3 on the job which tells you all you need to know about his presence with current players. I’ve listened to multiple pods where they dive deep into this matter and it’s not good. He is completely old school/out of touch. It’s sad for the fans because he’s one of the best minds in all of hoops imo.
Click to expand...
Those were NBA players some who have been in the league for a decade. They felt like there's a certain way that things are to be done at that level.
To say that he's out of touch with basketball is ridiculous when this time last year he was coaching the #9 team in the nation. The NBA wasn't the place for him. They thought they knew better than him and it didn't work out. Didn't work for Calipàri or Pitino(the 2nd time) or Hoilberg or Lon Kruger and each came back to college basketball and did well.
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,390
Milwaukee said:
I love Beilein and think he’s one of the best cbb coaches of our generation, but he’s out of touch with the current state of hoops. Not just the thug comment, the entire team in CLE stopped listening to him after only 3 weeks on the job. They were actively mocking him in his presence in the locker room and making fun of him in front of him. Now, is that a ****ty thing to do? Yes. But his players had zero respect for him since probably day 3 on the job which tells you all you need to know about his presence with current players. I’ve listened to multiple pods where they dive deep into this matter and it’s not good. He is completely old school/out of touch. It’s sad for the fans because he’s one of the best minds in all of hoops imo.
Click to expand...

I think there's a difference between coaching NBA and college basketball...in fact, I think there's a HUGE difference between coaching college and pros overall. You're not getting away with the stuff you would in college in the NBA. There's a reason Nick Saban high tailed it as fast as he could from the Dolphins. Coaches almost have no leverage in the pros, whereas they have all the leverage in college.

In the pros, you can't sit guys the front office is giving millions of dollars to and the fans expect to see when they pay for their tickets. In college, a star player gets out of line, that dude is on his butt until the coach has him towing the line again.

If you read the article I posted, the complaints against Beilein is basically what college basketball is revolved around: working on fundamentals and spending extra time watching film. Apparently the Cleveland players thought they were above it.

If you look at Beileins last two years at Michigan, he won 30 and 33 games. IMO, he may be out of touch with the NBA game, but he's perfect for the college game. Very few coaches do well going from college to NBA (see: Pitino, Calipari). You don't win that many games (he also won 26 and 23 games before that) if you're out of touch.

IMO, he'd be a home run hire for GT.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,272
I don't think Saban's issue was coaching pros per se. His issue was Drew Brees didn't end up in Miami. Regardless, the NBA is a different animal. Between the 24 second clock, extreme travel schedule with limited practice time and almost everyone on the team (not just the QB) making more than the coach - it is a lot more about managing egos and minutes than film room, etc. Not that these guys don't have systems - they do and their defensive systems are very sophisticated. But their offensive originates more often out of iso and not normally a "system". So I expect he lost them with trying to practice like college when they look more for rest and trying to put in a much more structured system than they are used to - and probably one that doesn't in their minds reflect the reality of the 24 second clock they have.

Having said that though, I would take him in a second back into the college game.
 
Last edited:
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,390
In case anyone is wondering, here is the math on Beilein's potential contract if GT is considering it:

When he left Michigan, he was making just under $2.5 million/yr.

Texas, which would be a frontrunner for Beilein's services, is currently paying Smart $3 million/yr.

Pastner is currently making just under $2 million/yr.

You would have to assume if Texas enters the race for Beilein, Beilein would probably command a figure over $3 million/yr. GT would be a tougher job than Texas, but the GT would give him a couple of years of almost no pressure until he gets his players and system in place. After paying off Smart and giving Beilein a contract probably north of $3million, Texas would probably expect more immediate success.

Of course, we also have to consider buyouts. Can GT even afford to buy out Pastner after this season AND give Beilien a contract north of $3million? I would think Beilein hitting the market this year as opposed to next year probably hurts our chances...the reality is, GT probably may not even register with Beilien given our smaller resources and how much harder it is to succeed at GT than other schools.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,272
If it is all/mostly about money then TX wins in a boatrace. If he took a ton of cash out of Cleveland and isn't motivated that way as much then we have a shot if TS could put together a real commitment to BB. I have hope but an expectation it is a year early for us to think about this.
 
Milwaukee

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
tbglover said:
Those were NBA players some who have been in the league for a decade. They felt like there's a certain way that things are to be done at that level.
To say that he's out of touch with basketball is ridiculous when this time last year he was coaching the #9 team in the nation. The NBA wasn't the place for him. They thought they knew better than him and it didn't work out. Didn't work for Calipàri or Pitino(the 2nd time) or Hoilberg or Lon Kruger and each came back to college basketball and did well.
Click to expand...

lol. Weird take but ok. Do you know his age? I love the guy actually.
 
Milwaukee

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Techster said:
I think there's a difference between coaching NBA and college basketball...in fact, I think there's a HUGE difference between coaching college and pros overall. You're not getting away with the stuff you would in college in the NBA. There's a reason Nick Saban high tailed it as fast as he could from the Dolphins. Coaches almost have no leverage in the pros, whereas they have all the leverage in college.

In the pros, you can't sit guys the front office is giving millions of dollars to and the fans expect to see when they pay for their tickets. In college, a star player gets out of line, that dude is on his butt until the coach has him towing the line again.

If you read the article I posted, the complaints against Beilein is basically what college basketball is revolved around: working on fundamentals and spending extra time watching film. Apparently the Cleveland players thought they were above it.

If you look at Beileins last two years at Michigan, he won 30 and 33 games. IMO, he may be out of touch with the NBA game, but he's perfect for the college game. Very few coaches do well going from college to NBA (see: Pitino, Calipari). You don't win that many games (he also won 26 and 23 games before that) if you're out of touch.

IMO, he'd be a home run hire for GT.
Click to expand...

There’s not a chance in hell Tech hires Beilein, just fyi.
 
kg01

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
Messages
15,345
Location
Atlanta
tbglover said:
Those were NBA players some who have been in the league for a decade. They felt like there's a certain way that things are to be done at that level.
To say that he's out of touch with basketball is ridiculous when this time last year he was coaching the #9 team in the nation. The NBA wasn't the place for him. They thought they knew better than him and it didn't work out. Didn't work for Calipàri or Pitino(the 2nd time) or Hoilberg or Lon Kruger and each came back to college basketball and did well.
Click to expand...

Well, minor correction, most of the problem guys were the 1-2 year guys. Sexton, Garland, Porter, etc.

Love had issues, to your point, but it was mostly the young guys.
 

TheSilasSonRising

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,729
Milwaukee said:
Todd is gonna can Josh regardless of what a few want. Josh actively carries the same philosophy that PJ had in football with the recruiting excuses. He thinks we are handcuffed and the ceiling is low. That’s the most frustrating thing in the world for me. Buck up dude, your path is even easier than Paul’s was and you’re still making excuses. I’m looking forward to the next coach, I don’t need a big name, just a new coach. I’m so happy that TStan has came to us.
Click to expand...

As was posted, in bold, IF
 

mstranahan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,561
Collin Sexton hates a coach? Sounds like a ringing endorsement to me. The Baby Bulls**t is emblematic of what’s wrong with hoops, from EYBL to the NBA
 
CuseJacket

CuseJacket

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
19,625
One random thought that I've had on Beilein.

If you look at Duke's recent success in recruiting, and I mean relative to overtaking Pay Pal Cal and Kentucky in rankings and top players, a lot of that timing mirrors K's time with Team USA. Could also be bags, but either his bags got bigger and/or his brand was enhanced by basically every NBA All-Star singing his praises for years. I've long thought the latter was big when LeBron, Kobe, etc. were incessant in their admiration of K publicly, regardless of any other variables.

Now take the inverse, which is Beilein. I wonder how much his brand is hurt and his ability to recruit will be hurt by what happened in Cleveland, fair or not. And I'm thinking specifically of the comment he made that really grabbed attention, not as much the "over-coaching" and bad fit. Some believe CPast is a tough fit at GT because of his quirkiness and inability to relate. It'll be interesting to see how Beilein rebounds in recruiting if he finds a landing spot somewhere. He'll certainly have options.
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,390
lv20gt said:
The hire itself would be a homerun. I'm not certain he'd actually do all that well here though as I question how good a fit he would be.
Click to expand...

I'm 100% good with taking a chance on Beilein if he wants to come here. He's a fundamentally great coach who wins with a good system and player development. He's not a coach that has to hit homeruns recruiting every season. He's a good to very good recruiter as well.

It's not often a coach that's been to the NCAAT 10 of 13 years, and has won 30 games various seasons in a P5 conference (including his last 2 years at Michigan) is available. You take that chance.

Of course, putting together an attractive package to even be in the conversation for Beilein may be a bridge too far this year...and maybe even next year.

Some team is gonna get a heck of a coach in Beilein.
 
Top