Coaching Carousel 5 - You have to look through the rain to see the rainbow

[dtm1997]

Yeah, the GT investigation was more towards #2 about being involved in conduct that hurts the universities reputation. Sexual assault rises to that level. Nothing else about the situation does though, no matter what some desperate posters might want to argue.

The NCAA investigation not naming him is what makes 4 not likely, and 5 doesn't hold because we did report in a timely manner (and not being named in the NOA will also probably go to that point).



I'll be honest, that list seems fairly underwhelming to me. There's a handful that I'd be okay with and think would have a decent chance of doing well but I'm not sure I'd be overly excited about any of them.

The door is open. I look forward to your list.

 

[RamblinRed]

If we want to play college basketball we are going to have to be willing to pay - and i don't mean under the table.

Only Jim Christian and his staff make less money in the ACC than Pastner and his staff.

Mack was hired at L'ville at $4M/yr for 7 years base salary before incentives.

Mike Anderson was making $2.55M per year at Ark before he left for St. Johns. Prohm is making almost $2.5M at Iowa St.

If you want to hire any coach that is not a mid major coach the salary starts around $3M for the HC and another $1M for his staff.

Even a good mid major coach will require a salary higher than what we are currently paying Pastner.

More importantly, until GT gets a final confirmation from the NCAA on its penalties no coach worth hiring is going to even give GT a listen.

Just due to money reasons and NCAA penalty reasons i fully expect GT will need to keep Pastner for at least 1 more season.

Also, GT isn't 100% clean, i'm not sure any major college BB program is, but if you think GT is swimming in the deep end of the pool that isn't even close to the truth. GT got hit overly hard for its transgressions because the NCAA needed someone to hammer with everything going on. But GT doesn't contribute anything significantly to the NCAA revenue wise (which makes 90% of its revenue off of March Madness) so there is no harm in hitting GT hard.

 

[lv20gt]

The door is open. I look forward to your list.

I don't have a better one and I think your list is a pretty good representation of what we'd be going after if we made a change this year. It's one of the reasons I think those calling for Pastner's head are short sighted, and that we'd be foolish just to start the cycle over again for no reason.

 

[dtm1997]

I don't have a better one and I think your list is a pretty good representation of what we'd be going after if we made a change this year. It's one of the reasons I think those calling for Pastner's head are short sighted, and that we'd be foolish just to start the cycle over again for no reason.

I agree with those statements.

That said, as much as I propose sucking up another year of CJP, regardless of how the year plays out, we'll still need the very large scale investment I've proposed earlier to do better than what I'm putting out there.

I will say, there are a couple of names on my list that I like regardless of investment level.

 

[TheAnonymous404]

This is interesting. Exhibit A, Termination for Cause is worth reading.

https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/g...ract-salary-buyout-georgia-tech-mike-bobinski

That article is from the original contract. Here is an article about some of the details of Pastner's contract extension, not as well written as the first article but the best I could find : https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/details-josh-pastner-contract-extension/YWSIQaan7KMkdNmRX5gPrI/

At the momental risk of making some people cry over spilled ice cream or having "my class" questioned on this illustrious SPORTS FORUM, this hero must break his silence. I think there is a common misconception that just keeping Pastner has no financial consequences, but that simply is not true. The value of his contract increases each year from $1.7 million in 2018 to $2.4 million in the final year of the contract. As well as a bonus if he is still the coach of the the team in 2021-2022 of $500,000. While some may say just ride it out with Pastner, there are other alternatives. I think we need to come to the realization that this program isn't as dead broke and financially helpless as some may believe, and there are a lot of strengths in this program that clearly our football program found a way to sell to high school players this year.

McCamish cost $50 million dollars. NBA players train in our facilities in the off season even non-Hawk players. We raised an extra $111 million dollars in the 2020 initiative that may have been used as a "slush fund" for the football program. I think we could reallocate some of these funds, such as the $9 million dollars going to the baseball stadium, $ 5 million to the O Keefe Center, or dial back on the $70 million for the edge center. Moreover, we are currently paying our coach $2 M a year, so jumping to a more competitive salary is not unfeasible. Also, maybe we a liquor license at games, so we can drink our whiskey clear. Once we have a coach who can take us to the tourney, we will generate more than enough revenue to improve Russ Chandler.

In regards to recruiting, we need to realize next year's class should be the norm, and not touted as a "good" recruiting class. We are ranked 44 per 247. It just appears "better" because we were 120 the year before. In 2017-2018, we were ranked 42nd in regards to revenue https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/. A normal class for us should be around the mid 40s. A "good" recruiting class would be a top 25 class. Collins showed it possible at Tech, and we don't need to settle in recruiting.

Also, Pastner has not beaten any of the last 18 top 25 teams that we have played, not sure what the record is though on moral victories please feel free to fill me in on that meaningful stat. Please let us not pity a man who makes millions of dollars to coach a game if he gets let go, I assure you he will be fine, and the sun will still rise tomorrow.

 

[Peacone36]

The door is open. I look forward to your list.

And you shall have it...

 

[Peacone36]

If you are referring to me in regards to the “ride it out” comment you may remember that I also said to ride it out for another 12 months Implying that I am aware of the $500,000 bonus

 

[orientalnc]

More importantly, until GT gets a final confirmation from the NCAA on its penalties no coach worth hiring is going to even give GT a listen.

The chances of us prevailing in our appeal are extremely low. It will be interesting to see what Stansbury does.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

We have a bona fide slush fund of $111 million?

I haven't seen that listed but hope it is true.

I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for a coach making millions per year, but rather hoping we don't go on the cheap again just for the sake of change.

 

[TheAnonymous404]

If you are referring to me in regards to the “ride it out” comment you may remember that I also said to ride it out for another 12 months Implying that I am aware of the $500,000 bonus

Lol! If I was talking to you, I would have had the common courtesy to comment on one of your posts or tag you. This is the problem with this board. You got a couple of Internet “big shot tough guys” that take everything so damn personally, and my god if you disagree with them then some how you are less of a fan. Then, they whip out the time the ran into Stansbury at some luncheon, and start swinging their dongs about any contribution they have made to the program. For the love of god, you or anyone else on this forum don’t have to proof your fanhood to me or quite frankly anyone else.

As far as calling you out, maybe just maybe I wasn’t talking to you, but simply expressing my opinion. Gasp! I can do that without it devolving into a brawl or having to examine your genitals like some wild animal. I get it that you want to wait another year before firing Pastner. That’s your opinion, and that is fine. I simply disagree.

Additionally, I’m sick of the poor pitiful me attitude that has plagued our fan base. Focusing on what we don’t have or making outlandish claims that we must produce a mountain of cash to afford a decent coach. I’m sick of what we can’t be. If we keep Pastner, we are choosing to keep him, but we can also choose to fire him. If we go down the path of finding a new coach or at least exploring our options as always the sun will rise the next day, I promise.

 

[RamblinRed]

We don't have a slush fund of $111M, that is a gross mischaracterization.

We had a fund of $6M which we used on the football program this past year. That fund is now mostly depleted.
A real decision will need to be made after next season when keeping Pastner would mean paying him an additional $500K.

His salary is not a huge deal in the sense that it is the second lowest in the ACC. After next season the terms of the buyout change more in GT's favor.

But until some of the recruiting restrictions are eased - which comes after next season - no coach worth paying is going to take this job.

We really can't afford to bungle another coaching search, so we need to make sure we are 100% ready before we make any move.

 

[GT_EE78]

since the last time we gave a coach a fifth year as the AD sung "Ain't got no money" , We've lost another half-decade.
guess we better start buying the gran-kids GT gear

 

[Peacone36]

Lol! If I was talking to you, I would have had the common courtesy to comment on one of your posts or tag you. This is the problem with this board. You got a couple of Internet “big shot tough guys” that take everything so damn personally, and my god if you disagree with them then some how you are less of a fan. Then, they whip out the time the ran into Stansbury at some luncheon, and start swinging their dongs about any contribution they have made to the program. For the love of god, you or anyone else on this forum don’t have to proof your fanhood to me or quite frankly anyone else.

As far as calling you out, maybe just maybe I wasn’t talking to you, but simply expressing my opinion. Gasp! I can do that without it devolving into a brawl or having to examine your genitals like some wild animal. I get it that you want to wait another year before firing Pastner. That’s your opinion, and that is fine. I simply disagree.

Additionally, I’m sick of the poor pitiful me attitude that has plagued our fan base. Focusing on what we don’t have or making outlandish claims that we must produce a mountain of cash to afford a decent coach. I’m sick of what we can’t be. If we keep Pastner, we are choosing to keep him, but we can also choose to fire him. If we go down the path of finding a new coach or at least exploring our options as always the sun will rise the next day, I promise.

I was just asking considering you used the exact terms I did in your reference. You don’t have to a ****ing ****

 

[TheAnonymous404]

We have a bona fide slush fund of $111 million?

I haven't seen that listed but hope it is true.

I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for a coach making millions per year, but rather hoping we don't go on the cheap again just for the sake of change.

We have a bona fide slush fund of $111 million?

I haven't seen that listed but hope it is true.

I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for a coach making millions per year, but rather hoping we don't go on the cheap again just for the sake of change.

No the $111 million is the 2020 athletic initiative. The “slush fund” was used sarcastically.

 

[GTsports1819]

Additionally, I’m sick of the poor pitiful me attitude that has plagued our fan base. Focusing on what we don’t have or making outlandish claims that we must produce a mountain of cash to afford a decent coach. I’m sick of what we can’t be. If we keep Pastner, we are choosing to keep him, but we can also choose to fire him. If we go down the path of finding a new coach or at least exploring our options as always the sun will rise the next day, I promise.

Eventually we do have to stop with the learned helplessness. In terms of finding the right coach, I firmly believe this is less about the money and more about the NCAA sanctions.

If we are talking about a long term commitment of 10-20 years then the extra 2-2.5MM to prevent further damage to the program is worth it. And don’t tell me there hasn’t been damage - we’re facing embarrassing NCAA sanctions and had a recruiting class ranked 120 last year. Not to mention the W-L record. At some point, if we are putting out feelers and the right coach (hopefully someone with a proven track record) is there, we gotta make it happen.

I’ll admit that I’d rather just keep Pastner than go take a flyer on Elon’s coach or another unproven midmajor guy. But I really think we can and should do better.

I’m sick of watching the losses pile up as this program continues to go downhill. It’s not fair to the players we have who are working their butts off every day to try and turn it around. And meanwhile our current coach comes up with a new excuse every day. Or calls out guys like Jose for s couple turnovers during the ND press conference. Now he says “well the schedule is more favorable.” We’ll see if it is. Here’s to hoping for more wins, but until we see them it’s just talk. How about some accountability from the man in charge?

 

[GT_EE78]

No the $111 million is the 2020 athletic initiative. The “slush fund” was used sarcastically.

If i understood a prior link about that $111 million, then it appears to already be allocated, but would seem to be a good indicator that TStan can successfully raise $125 million over 3 years for this athletic initiative. I don't see why they wouldn't use that fundraising skill toward the basketball program. The "Ain't got no money" song is getting over-played and bargain basement shopping for coaches has already cost us a decade.

 

[LibertyTurns]

The "Ain't got no money" song is getting over-played and bargain basement shopping for coaches has already cost us a decade.

The “ain’t got no money” is not a song it’s current reality. Now, to your point we should be able to fundraise out of it. The fact we’ve not done it says it’s one of the following options:
A. Tstan really can’t even if we wanted to. Appears easy to us but maybe he knows it’s not?
B. Tstan doesn’t want to. Maybe he’s happy with what we’ve got? We all assume he’d be displeased with our basketball program, but maybe we’re mistaken?
C. Tstan can’t figure out we need to do it. Maybe Tstan hasn’t realized we need to fundraise to get $$ for what we need? You’d have to believe him to be an imbecile for this option.
D. Others?
Maybe it’s B? We could probably fire Pastner for cause for getting us hammered by the NCAA with no buyout. We have not.

 

[YlJacket]

Or TStan is focused on the bigger picture with the current fundraising and can get that done without having to take on another major program rebuild while he is doing the fundraising (one rebuild at a time is generally a lot - two on top of a major fundraising would be mind blowing).

He also knows the economics of the contract and things like the ACCN change next year. Plus the retention bonus.

So I understand why next year would be the target date. Don't necessarily like it but I do understand it.

 

[dtm1997]

Or TStan is focused on the bigger picture with the current fundraising and can get that done without having to take on another major program rebuild while he is doing the fundraising (one rebuild at a time is generally a lot - two on top of a major fundraising would be mind blowing).

He also knows the economics of the contract and things like the ACCN change next year. Plus the retention bonus.

So I understand why next year would be the target date. Don't necessarily like it but I do understand it.

This.

Whether we like it or not, there are other projects & challenges to deal with, starting with the overall infrastructure to facilitate success across all GT athletics programs, as well as the massive investment in the football program.

We have to get through what's currently on the plate and then basketball will come to the forefront.

 

[orientalnc]

Earl Grant @ College of Charleston this season: 6-2 in the CAA; 6-6 OOC.

I am not sure how easy/difficult it is to recruit to Charleston. There is virtually no college campus and the gym is downtown pinched into a corner of a busy city block. Charleston is a great place to visit, but it has to be tough to lure kids to that campus. Give him good props for recruiting.