Coaching Carousel 5 - You have to look through the rain to see the rainbow

Buzzbomb

Mello Yellow-Jacket
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12,014
It's more about realizing that some people are complainers who do nothing.
Or some people care enough to want change.
Ultimately, TStan makes the decision, not you or I.
Doesn’t matter to him if I’m in his ear as a complainer of what the program is, or if you sit back quietly and give your donation. We are equal. It’s his behind on the line.
 

dtm1997

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Since I had to address your ardent defenders first, I will know turn my attention back to the financial discussions. The Athletics Initiative for 2020 was started in Jan 2018, and Colllins was hired in Dec 2018, this suggest that these funds are not set in stone. As per the slush funds comment, clearly how these funds are distributed are more fluid than they appear. The maintenance costs of which you speak (overhead etc) is already covered in the $12 million dollar budget. The excess $14 million may have gone to football quite literally as a "slush fund" for the new hire and staff. My point is we found the money for football. Why can't we find the money for basketball? The "bells and whistles" are at least partially accounted for in this budget by the pledged $3.5 million to the basketball locker room.

Back to the idea that we need $25-40MM for the next regime. You cited Chris Mack at 21MM over 7 years. So he's making ~$1MM more than Pastner per season...It's a long term contract. So we don't need to conjure up $25-40MM out of thin air. My point is this program has enough money to not have to be in the cellar of the ACC.

The $25MM-$40MM is a commitment. How much are we (the GTAA, its sponsors, its fans, etc.) willing to commit day one over the course of multiple years? The head coach's contract is part of that commitment. If we have to pay a coach similar to Mack, a proven winner, you've now committed $21MM. $4MM more and you hit the bottom of my range. How much is it gonna cost you to get real recruiters in here?

We found the money for football because football has been, currently, is, and will always be, the financial priority. Also, we got off light, not having to pay much for Paul Johnson's contract buyout.

A $4.5MM locker room has bells & whistles, but what about additional staff (recruiting, scouting, social media, etc.), private jets for recruiting, better nutrition, mental health on staff, strength & conditioning quality & equipment, better technology and data analytics. All of these things cost a lot of money and quality coaches now demand them to help them win.

I'm glad you agree Pastner has to go, and that it isn't a financially insurmountable task. The real question is how much money are we going to save by one lame duck season vs. the hit in recruiting, revenue and general support of the program? Is our program going to be drastically better off financially in one year? What about players transferring out of the program...

The hit in recruiting and players transferring out? We've done a pretty good job developing kids, but in all seriousness, I like the 2020 recruits we have coming in, but our recruiting should be better, hit already taken. Who are you really worried about leaving the program? I can count the number on 1 finger, Michael Devoe. I really like the potential of Moore & Price. Jose, Usher, Moses, Cole, & Bubba - all seniors next year, so unlikely to leave unless they graduate early and there is that possibility.

General support of the program? I'm literally not worried about it. Our fans are comparable to Atlanta fans as a whole. Start winning and they come back in droves. If the worst next season might be is on par with Hewitt or BG's last season, I'm not worried about it at all.

Between tickets to secondary market sellers and the opposing fan bases that already invade us during ACC season, I'm not really worried about a final year revenue hit, if it saves us $2MM we'd have to double dip on by paying CJP plus a new coach. More, if any assistants are under contract.

Net, net - It all comes back to the money and setting up the cost structure. We've never shown the desire to spend it because we haven't had the right leadership to support hoops since Homer Rice. I think we have that leader now in Todd Stansbury and I think when the finances align to make a major investment in GT Men's Hoops, we'll see the right moves.

Until then, we'll just have to numb the pain and suck it up. Many on here are avid bourbon drinkers that might be able to make a quality suggestion for that.
 

dtm1997

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Or some people care enough to want change.
Ultimately, TStan makes the decision, not you or I.
Doesn’t matter to him if I’m in his ear as a complainer of what the program is, or if you sit back quietly and give your donation. We are equal. It’s his behind on the line.

Here's a question I think you know the answer to... do you think I care?

I think we shouldn't fire Pastner after this year without the financial house being in order and we're ready to make a real commitment to GT Men's Hoops.

Do you think I care?
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
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1,106
Saying only chance the upcoming seniors have of transferring is if they graduate early is ignoring the giant elephant in the room
 

GTsports1819

Georgia Tech Fan
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69
Saying only chance the upcoming seniors have of transferring is if they graduate early is ignoring the giant elephant in the room

I think the transfer concern is real, especially if the postseason ban gets pushed to next year. I would worry about DeVoe, Moore, Price, and pretty much anyone else who is unhappy exploring their options. Moore is barely even playing right now, so it's hard to imagine he's happy.
 

GTsports1819

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
69
Also, as far as the decision to fire this year vs next year goes - Some of that should depend on our candidate pool.

If the right guy is out there this year, then we should take the extra 2-2.5MM hit and get the right coach. IMO that is worth it, and in the long run we will be able to make that money back. If the pool is not good or our top options are all passing over us for a different opportunity, then I think the argument for a lame duck year becomes stronger. Regardless, we can't botch this hire again. We have to be willing to make tough decisions and be aggressive about turning this around.

Or we can continue to accept unacceptable results...and watch cliche ridden press conferences about how we're so close and so much better than our record shows. At some point enough is enough.
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
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1,106
I think the transfer concern is real, especially if the postseason ban gets pushed to next year. I would worry about DeVoe, Moore, Price, and pretty much anyone else who is unhappy exploring their options. Moore is barely even playing right now, so it's hard to imagine he's happy.

I’m not sure how we field a team next year if the ban is in place
 

dtm1997

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15,704
I think the transfer concern is real, especially if the postseason ban gets pushed to next year. I would worry about DeVoe, Moore, Price, and pretty much anyone else who is unhappy exploring their options. Moore is barely even playing right now, so it's hard to imagine he's happy.

I like these kids and I hope they finish out their time at GT, but if the ban is next year and kids transfer, it almost assuredly seals Pastner's fate and clears out roster space for a new coach to build with his own guys, with no postseason ban looming.
 

YlJacket

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3,257
I think the transfer concern is real, especially if the postseason ban gets pushed to next year. I would worry about DeVoe, Moore, Price, and pretty much anyone else who is unhappy exploring their options. Moore is barely even playing right now, so it's hard to imagine he's happy.

The elephant in the room is that Moore, Price, Sjolund, even Cole are guys who aren't gaining PT for a team that is under .500 in the ACC. If they transfer it is to a mid major at best. There is not going to be a clamor for them at other ACC/legit P5 teams. The 3 that would have any options like that are Jose, DeVoe and Moses. But the elephant would tell you that IF we did bring in a legit ACC level / winner type coach the first or second question he would ask is how much roster flexibility he has to move current projects on the roster and bring in legit ACC level players.
 

Connell62

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@Buzzbomb

Since you quoted my post, I can assume you were responding to me. Stop being lame.

A. This isn’t social media

B. If you think telling someone they got their *** handed to them is using “big man, superior language” (whatever that is), then you really do need to grow a pair.
 

smokey_wasp

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5,486
I have given up on Pastner as the long term answer and would like a new coach as soon as such is financially feasible. On the surface, it looks like that may take another year or so, but AD's have been known to find a way to make things happen on an accelerated timetable if they feel strongly enough about it. So, we will see.
 

gtpi

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i thought tstan did great job wrt allowing cpj to leave on his own terms and the change over wrt the staffs and the direction. so far we have a top 30 recruiting class and things are looking up. we have a whole staff of mostly tech men. talking 'we can do this'.

and the way he handled the issues we had with the bb programs. .. the wbb fiasco and the ron bell issue. our lady program certainly landed on its feet running. i see no reason why he cant handle cpj and what ever that outcome needs to be wrt the mens bb program.

hes a tech guy which is more than i can say for any of the others weve had to deal with. i have confidence that tstan will make the right move if needed.

personally i hope cjp survives. hes only 42. give him some time to grow
 
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Peacone36

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Look at all you guys. In fighting like a bunch of high school girls over the quarterback. I stopped posting with the hope that my so-called negativity wouldn't drive things like this any further and turn it into GoJackets south but here we are.

1-I'm surprised by the line Buzzbomb has taken

2-Its in our best interest to simply ride it out. Budgets are made for a reason and after the Edge Center, the hiring of Coaches Collins and Fortner, any legal fees that correspond with the firing of Coach Joseph and her shenanigans, do we really think that the University as a whole is interested in dumping any additional funds into the athletic department? Nevermind into the specific program that has failed so miserably in the last two coaching searches when it can save millions of dollars by simply waiting 12 months?

3- You need to have the sanctions from the NCAA completely resolved so the new coach knows exactly what he is getting into. Who in their right mind wants to come to an ACC school against a half dozen hall of fame coaches and be limited immediately from a recruiting standpoint? The words you are searching for are "no one."

4-If we want to win we need have the necessary funds to overpay for a quality coach. Not a retread, or someone who needs a parachute. If you want a guy like Steve Prohm, Anthony Grant, Wes Miller, Steve Pikiell, Shaka (he's the only parachute candidate that would be acceptable), Ritchie McKay, etc then we need to be prepared to lock horns with other programs for their services and not have to bow out when the price hits $2.2MM

You all know me and where I stand on Pastner. However, I also want to win, and if it takes 12 more months in order to make the correct hire, I'll ride it out.

Hope you're well @GT11
 

Connell62

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3,080
Look at all you guys. In fighting like a bunch of high school girls over the quarterback. I stopped posting with the hope that my so-called negativity wouldn't drive things like this any further and turn it into GoJackets south but here we are.

1-I'm surprised by the line Buzzbomb has taken

2-Its in our best interest to simply ride it out. Budgets are made for a reason and after the Edge Center, the hiring of Coaches Collins and Fortner, any legal fees that correspond with the firing of Coach Joseph and her shenanigans, do we really think that the University as a whole is interested in dumping any additional funds into the athletic department? Nevermind into the specific program that has failed so miserably in the last two coaching searches when it can save millions of dollars by simply waiting 12 months?

3- You need to have the sanctions from the NCAA completely resolved so the new coach knows exactly what he is getting into. Who in their right mind wants to come to an ACC school against a half dozen hall of fame coaches and be limited immediately from a recruiting standpoint? The words you are searching for are "no one."

4-If we want to win we need have the necessary funds to overpay for a quality coach. Not a retread, or someone who needs a parachute. If you want a guy like Steve Prohm, Anthony Grant, Wes Miller, Steve Pikiell, Shaka (he's the only parachute candidate that would be acceptable), Ritchie McKay, etc then we need to be prepared to lock horns with other programs for their services and not have to bow out when the price hits $2.2MM

You all know me and where I stand on Pastner. However, I also want to win, and if it takes 12 more months in order to make the correct hire, I'll ride it out.

Hope you're well @GT11

Glad to see you back! One hell of a solid post in your return too! I agree with everything that you said here.
 
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