Clemson

[YlJacket]

Let me ask the basketball gurus a question that I can't figure out.... how are we winning games with this roster?

Couple of things

First parts of this roster are much better than anyone expected- especially Lammers and Okogie. I don't think anyone expected Lammers to be in all ACC discussion and Okogie is playing better than his rep would suggest. Still not an ACC level roster but it has pieces

Second the defense has been much better than anyone could have expected. While the zones CJP throws in are neat and at times effective this is still a man based team anchored by Lammers. Their help rotations last night were impressive

The third is the Princeton like offensive scheme has put them in position to attack and they have done so. We don't have real shooters so the alternative is to attack. It is a very nice scheme for this team and leads to the free throw advantage we have had

CJP and his staff get credit for this. It is well thought out and executed. It is the kind of stuff I did not think CJP could do based on watching his Memphis teams.

We are going to get athletically and talent overwhelmed in some games going forward. And teams are going to pack it in on us and force us to shoot - zone and packed man. So it will be interesting to see how we adjust. But without a doubt so far so good

 

[Peacone36]

Couple of things

First parts of this roster are much better than anyone expected- especially Lammers and Okogie. I don't think anyone expected Lammers to be in all ACC discussion and Okogie is playing better than his rep would suggest. Still not an ACC level roster but it has pieces

Second the defense has been much better than anyone could have expected. While the zones CJP throws in are neat and at times effective this is still a man based team anchored by Lammers. Their help rotations last night were impressive

The third is the Princeton like offensive scheme has put them in position to attack and they have done so. We don't have real shooters so the alternative is to attack. It is a very nice scheme for this team and leads to the free throw advantage we have had

CJP and his staff get credit for this. It is well thought out and executed. It is the kind of stuff I did not think CJP could do based on watching his Memphis teams.

We are going to get athletically and talent overwhelmed in some games going forward. And teams are going to pack it in on us and force us to shoot - zone and packed man. So it will be interesting to see how we adjust. But without a doubt so far so good

Yup. Bringing Ben to the perimeter and consistently hitting that 15-17 footer means they have to follow and guard him which opens up lanes for Okogie and JMo to make those hard cuts.

 

[YlJacket]

Yup. Bringing Ben to the perimeter and consistently hitting that 15-17 footer means they have to follow and guard him which opens up lanes for Okogie and JMo to make those hard cuts.

One other coaching subtlety is that those cuts keep defenders from doubling down hard onnLammers. So even when he does go to the block he has room to operate.

 

[kg01]

Couple of things

First parts of this roster are much better than anyone expected- especially Lammers and Okogie. I don't think anyone expected Lammers to be in all ACC discussion and Okogie is playing better than his rep would suggest. Still not an ACC level roster but it has pieces

Second the defense has been much better than anyone could have expected. While the zones CJP throws in are neat and at times effective this is still a man based team anchored by Lammers. Their help rotations last night were impressive

The third is the Princeton like offensive scheme has put them in position to attack and they have done so. We don't have real shooters so the alternative is to attack. It is a very nice scheme for this team and leads to the free throw advantage we have had

CJP and his staff get credit for this. It is well thought out and executed. It is the kind of stuff I did not think CJP could do based on watching his Memphis teams.

We are going to get athletically and talent overwhelmed in some games going forward. And teams are going to pack it in on us and force us to shoot - zone and packed man. So it will be interesting to see how we adjust. But without a doubt so far so good

Agree on all counts. I'd also add Moore to the list of unexpected positives. He's so much closer to being an ACC-level starter than I thought he'd be. If he could shoot/score, at all, he'd be tremendous. Look for a big jump from him in year 2.

Regarding your point about CJP's coaching prowess at MEM, I'd say the early returns lend credence to the notion that he may have been a little hamstrung w.r.t. style of play. Those teams looked like he just put the best athletes on the court and tried to out-athlete/talent teams. So far, we've looked much more well-coached and diverse than I expected.

 

[Techster]

This is a a ton more PRODUCTIVE motion... cuts to basket, off of screens, not just running in circles.

The motion on the backside and our ability to find the cutter is 1000% better than anything I've seen from GT going back even to the Cremins days.

Dare I say it...it's actually fun to watch just that during the game. I compare it to soccer...the give and go's, triangulated passes, 1-2's...it's pretty stuff. Our guys are SO much better about angles and finding the right guy than we've been since....? Really a joy to watch. Winning helps, but there really is a night and day difference with how we're playing.

 

[jeffgt14]

CJP has a good passing big man in Lammers. He brings Ben to the top of the key where he can set a ball screen, slip the screen, take the ball and perform a give and go or he can put the ball on the floor a little bit (Louisville game) AND he's smart enough to just wait for either of the Josh's or JMo to come back out and get it from him for a reset

Shades of Luke Schenscher

 

[orientalnc]

Maybe this has nothing to do with the outcome of last night's game, but the three largest newspapers in SC failed to mention the game on their websites this morning. Not a single article. Yet each one had numerous stories about the football team from various angles. It would be reasonable to assume the basketball was not as zoned in on the game as they should have been.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Agree on all counts. I'd also add Moore to the list of unexpected positives. He's so much closer to being an ACC-level starter than I thought he'd be. If he could shoot/score, at all, he'd be tremendous. Look for a big jump from him in year 2.

Regarding your point about CJP's coaching prowess at MEM, I'd say the early returns lend credence to the notion that he may have been a little hamstrung w.r.t. style of play. Those teams looked like he just put the best athletes on the court and tried to out-athlete/talent teams. So far, we've looked much more well-coached and diverse than I expected.

If so I hope CJP and his staff remember to keep up the good coaching work even when they get better recruits. I would hate to see a reversion to just tossing the best athletes the ball and telling them to go play.

 

[Peacone36]

If so I hope CJP and his staff remember to keep up the good coaching work even when they get better recruits. I would hate to see a reversion to just tossing the best athletes the ball and telling them to go play.

In the short term I am just hopeful we can keep this staff together.

 

[techgrad]

Agree on all counts. I'd also add Moore to the list of unexpected positives. He's so much closer to being an ACC-level starter than I thought he'd be. If he could shoot/score, at all, he'd be tremendous. Look for a big jump from him in year 2.

Regarding your point about CJP's coaching prowess at MEM, I'd say the early returns lend credence to the notion that he may have been a little hamstrung w.r.t. style of play. Those teams looked like he just put the best athletes on the court and tried to out-athlete/talent teams. So far, we've looked much more well-coached and diverse than I expected.

Can you elaborate on this? I tried to watch a couple of his memphis games when he was hired. They were brutal. Why would he be hamstrung to a style of play?

 

[scotts]

Given the improvement in Lammers this year, I wouldn't be surprised in Reveno gets an offer for either a HC position or a higher paid asst. coach.

 

[lv20gt]

Can you elaborate on this? I tried to watch a couple of his memphis games when he was hired. They were brutal. Why would he be hamstrung to a style of play?

Pure speculation, but I'm in the memphis area, and can say that local talent is not what I would call the most coachable. I would also guess that part of the problem at memphis might have been managing egos. One thing about this team is that prior to this year nobody had really done anything to have too big an ego. Just a guess though.

 

[kg01]

Can you elaborate on this? I tried to watch a couple of his memphis games when he was hired. They were brutal. Why would he be hamstrung to a style of play?

I was a little hesitant to post that because it's not really based on anything that's officially been said. This is all conjecture. Some people think the MEM HS bball scene kinda forced him to take certain recruits (or risk being cut off from the 'scene'), thus he had pressure to feature certain players which likely drove strategy to a degree. The city produced a lot of folks who had (or thought they had) a hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

Others feel like players at GT are generally more coachable whereas the MEM players were more likely to challenge a coach (due to the hands/cookie jar, etc.).

Him hiring the Lawsons' dad was IMHO a manifestation of this nonsense.

Dangit @lv20gt , beat me by a hair.

 

[techgrad]

I was a little hesitant to post that because it's not really based on anything that's officially been said. This is all conjecture. Some people think the MEM HS bball scene kinda forced him to take certain recruits (or risk being cut off from the 'scene'), thus he had pressure to feature certain players which likely drove strategy to a degree. The city produced a lot of folks who had (or thought they had) a hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

Others feel like players at GT are generally more coachable whereas the MEM players were more likely to challenge a coach (due to the hands/cookie jar, etc.).

Him hiring the Lawsons' dad was IMHO a manifestation of this nonsense.

Dangit @lv20gt , beat me by a hair.

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info. I've been scratching my head the past couple of months. Our team just has looked nothing like his memphis teams. I had come to the conclusion that it must be our assistants or just that our kids are more coachable. Never thought about behind the scene stuff. Like others have mentioned, I hope we don't devolve into his memphis style as we get higher ranked players.

 

[kg01]

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info. I've been scratching my head the past couple of months. Our team just has looked nothing like his memphis teams. I had come to the conclusion that it must be our assistants or just that our kids are more coachable. Never thought about behind the scene stuff. Like others have mentioned, I hope we don't devolve into his memphis style as we get higher ranked players.

To provide another side, MEM fans appeared to think CJP ran off any assistant coach with a pulse preferring to be the only 'voice' around. They thought his style/personality ran guys off.

His staff here is chock full of capable guys who appear to be having a significant impact so I hope that narrative proves to be false.

 

[GTHomer]

To provide another side, MEM fans appeared to think CJP ran off any assistant coach with a pulse preferring to be the only 'voice' around. They thought his style/personality ran guys off.

His staff here is chock full of capable guys who appear to be having a significant impact so I hope that narrative proves to be false.

All I care about is what CJP is doing and will do for our program. I learned a LOT from my first job and that benefitted me in my second one.

CJP is still a young guy and acknowledged that he has made mistakes in the past. He also indicated he has learned from them. Based on what we've seen thus far, with the assistants he hired, his relentless recruiting and the product he is putting out on the floor, I believe we are in capable hands.

 

[RamblinRed]

The Memphis angle is an interesting one to me as well.
keep in mind as i pointed out earlier this week that Pastner is 5 yrs younger than any other coach in this league. He's a young guy so he should learn.

His Memphis teams did tend to look like AAU ball. There definately was alot of Memphis local stuff in that program. BB is the big thing there and there are alot of people who think they have a say.

He generally was not considered to have a strong staff there, so having a strong staff here i think helps.

I have been impressed since his first day here of Pastner being willing to say he made mistakes at Memphis and would learn from them. One thing he mentioned was it cannot be just about the stars, you had to build a team. i think at Memphis he might have tried to hard to be like Cal and bring in stars.

 

[techgrad]

To provide another side, MEM fans appeared to think CJP ran off any assistant coach with a pulse preferring to be the only 'voice' around. They thought his style/personality ran guys off.

His staff here is chock full of capable guys who appear to be having a significant impact so I hope that narrative proves to be false.

Yeah, I heard about the control issues. Also, there was the player exodus. I'm very pleasantly surprised with what I've seen so far. If the trend continues, we are in for some fun basketball in the near future! I can't wait for Tech basketball to be great again!

 

[SteamWhistle]

No matter how we finish the rest of the year I feel good Knowing we are scrappy and competitive, and Josh Pastner has us heading in the right direction.

 

[YlJacket]

Lot of folks have lots of negative things to say about Cal - some valid and a lot not. But the thing they overlook about Cal and now about K as well is that it takes both a strong personality and a lot of gravitas to be able to mold a bunch of high talent thoroughbred players into a team. Get them to give up things they think are in their interest for the good of the team. It is a real skill.

Doesn't surprise me that CJP likely got caught up in that dynamic when he was there. And more to the point tells you a lot that Memphis went out and got someone like Tubby who would arguably be better equipped to handle the political dynamics. IMHO that adds some credibility to the idea of CJP getting in over his head.

As an AAU coach I do take umbrage at Memphis's past play being akin to AAU basketball. I would contend AAU has a lot more structure than they did