Clemson Post-game Thread

[Coloradojacket]

Look, only focusing on 5* players who represent a very small percentage of recruits(.01%) is not only myopic, it's a good case for how ridiculous your Geoff comments vs Saban and Dabo really are. We don't sign 5* except rarely. Only a handful of programs sign the majority of them. We have to sign high 3s and 5-6 4s on a consistent basis to even have a chance at becoming relevant again.
You make a good case for only recruiting 5*, but you make a lousy case for what matters to Tech's football future, which is what every comment I made in my post is related to, and said comments are dead on accurate.

Curious question. You make the comment about us being relevant again. What does relevant mean? Give me an example of when we were relevant.

 

[takethepoints]

I don’t think Dabo was sending a message to recruits. Do you really think he loses any sleep thinking about Tech?

I used to tell students in some of my courses about going to the Zesto on Peachtree (ah, the memories of those vanilla malts!) with my son to get dinner. Maynard Jackson, who was running for mayor at the time, came in and took his place in line behind us. He looked around the room and saw it was pretty full. He fidgeted for a minute, then went out to his car, got a sheave of campaign pamphlets, and started to work the room. Moral = for politicians in a democracy you never assume that you have anybody's vote.

So does Dabo worry about Tech? Of course he does. Every major college football coach knows how fast a program can hit the rocks these days and they all know it can happen through recruiting. They will never miss a chance to make a case with people they are recruiting, especially if the opposition is a new program that is trying to sell itself to the same people.

True, at present he may not worry much. But …

 

[jacketup]

Curious question. You make the comment about us being relevant again. What does relevant mean? Give me an example of when we were relevant.

Not GoldZ, but I'd say the O'Leary years when we were ranked in the top 25 five years in a row and beat the Dwags 3 years in a row. That's being relevant.

 

[Dottie1145]

Its just ignorance. Clemson only has 2 healthy QBs on their roster, and 1 is a walk-on. They had to play a non QB.

They had 3 QBs play. They didn’t have to play their punter, but they did, and the world knows it.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Not GoldZ, but I'd say the O'Leary years when we were ranked in the top 25 five years in a row and beat the Dwags 3 years in a row. That's being relevant.

So in those 3 years, only 1 we finished ranked, we were 10-2, 8-5, 9-3. Georgia was not what it is. Also we never won the ACC and could not beat Florida State. Not trying to start a fire here but when I see this saying relevant, in my years we have only been "relevant" 3 times, 1990, 2009, 2014. I go back to 1969.

 

[GoldZ]

Not GoldZ, but I'd say the O'Leary years when we were ranked in the top 25 five years in a row and beat the Dwags 3 years in a row. That's being relevant.

And narry a 5* or the equivalent at the time on the field! A number of "4*" for sure though.

 

[jacketup]

While I don't disagree with your comments in general, they are completely irrelevant to the point I was making. I'm commenting on why is so difficult to recruit 5*'s to Tech at all. And there are probably thousands of posts on this site by people that think Geoff is going to do that. He isn't. We have no selling proposition to 5*'s.

The strategy, articulated by TStan himself, is to recruit 3s and some 4s and develop them so that they become 5* and can be drafted.

Bottom line is that we aren't going to cheat. Does anyone really believe that 5 star players started flocking to Clemson because Dabo is a great coach or Clemson is such a great town? Dabo wasn't even a coordinator when he was named head coach at Clemson. A few years before that he was a commercial realtor in Alabama. Clemson has a tradition of cheating going back to Danny Ford, another Bama boy. Dabo was chosen because he would recruit by doing whatever it took, and Clemson is OK with that. Tech isn't.

I have a friend who has witnessed the $100 handshakes in the big donor parking lot at Clemson. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There is no other explanation for their recruiting success, especally in the early years of Dabo. They will always be the Chigers to me--the Cheating Tigers.

 

[Vespidae]

So does Dabo worry about Tech? Of course he does. Every major college football coach knows how fast a program can hit the rocks these days and they all know it can happen through recruiting. They will never miss a chance to make a case with people they are recruiting, especially if the opposition is a new program that is trying to sell itself to the same people.

I don't think it's that. Finebaum said he hates listening to Dabo because he whines. His theory (attributed to Dabo's own words) is that Clemson has to work twice as hard to be taken seriously because SEC schools are valued higher than Clemson due to Clemson's weak schedule.

So I don't think he worries about Tech. It's about making as big a claim possible that Clemson deserves it's ranking.

 

[Vespidae]

Bottom line is that we aren't going to cheat. Does anyone really believe that 5 star players started flocking to Clemson because Dabo is a great coach or Clemson is such a great town? Dabo wasn't even a coordinator when he was named head coach at Clemson. A few years before that he was a commercial realtor in Alabama. Clemson has a tradition of cheating going back to Danny Ford, another Bama boy. Dabo was chosen because he would recruit by doing whatever it took, and Clemson is OK with that. Tech isn't.

I have a friend who has witnessed the $100 handshakes in the big donor parking lot at Clemson. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There is no other explanation for their recruiting success, especally in the early years of Dabo. They will always be the Chigers to me--the Cheating Tigers.

I'm not opining on cheating or not cheating. I'm stating a fact ... 5* players are more likely to be drafted in the first round if they play for Alabama or Clemson than if they play for someone else.

In fact, you could argue that EVEN IF A 5* does enroll at Tech ... he will have a harder time being drafted in the first round than if he went to another school. And that decision is worth ... MILLIONS.

 

[FlatsLander]

We can’t get big , mean defensive players cause we’d rather be the MIT of the south instead of a football program

actually that's fine with me

 

[jacketup]

So in those 3 years, only 1 we finished ranked, we were 10-2, 8-5, 9-3. Georgia was not what it is. Also we never won the ACC and could not beat Florida State. Not trying to start a fire here but when I see this saying relevant, in my years we have only been "relevant" 3 times, 1990, 2009, 2014. I go back to 1969.

We were ranked in the AP final top 25 1997-2001. We beat Georgia 1998-2000. So your statement about being ranked 1 of those years is incorrect. And FSU was a lot better over that stretch than anyone in the ACC in 2009 or 2014. They were top 5 every year. The 1998 team with Joe Hamilton would have beaten the 2009 or 2014 teams.

I can't tell what your standard of relevance is by the years you have chosen. I'll stick with saying that being ranked 5 years in a row is being relevant. Being 11-3 one year and 3-8, like we were in 2014 and 2015 is not being relevant in my view.

 

[jacketup]

I'm not opining on cheating or not cheating. I'm stating a fact ... 5* players are more likely to be drafted in the first round if they play for Alabama or Clemson than if they play for someone else.

In fact, you could argue that EVEN IF A 5* does enroll at Tech ... he will have a harder time being drafted in the first round than if he went to another school. And that decision is worth ... MILLIONS.

We haven't had anything to gauge that on since we haven't had 5 stars. Calvin Johnson was taken number 2 overall in the draft, and he's the closest to a 5* we've had. And that cuts against what you are saying.
The bottom line is that we need to start sending players to the NFL no matter the draft position. That didn't happen much under Johnson, and we have to climb over that hill. Collins has his work cut out for him, but some people seem to just like to criticize him rather than being realistic about the state of the program when he took over. Those people need to spend more time looking at the ATL chart and who actually starts and less time throwing out unsubstantiated opinions about this staff.

 

[Ash]

Clem could have done what it did to us on Saturday any year since 2014. No one expected us to keep up with their 1s, but getting blown off the field in the 2nd half...that's on the coaching staff. All we had to do was slow them down a little but we didn't. Watching the 2nd half the announcers hardly ever said anything about our defense at all. Out of courtesy.

Collins may be in over his head, but I believe he know which direction to swim to get some air. His coordinators...they are outclassed and it shows.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

That is the most despicable and cowardly thing to do (although some would argue for freedom of speech I suppose). Just curious, on Instagram do people use their real names or is it psuedonyms like here or the other GT message boards? I guess I would find it a little more tolerable if people are expressing themselves under their real names. But to disparage someone anonomously is just low down. Especially people that are not yet full grown adults.

Players that are truly amateurs, like ours, should be off limits. The paid semi pros at Clemson, Alabama, UGA, etc. well, they are fair game it would seem on those teams sites. That may not be right either but most fan bases are not as restrained as ours. IIWII

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I’m thinking we need a little reality check up.
Dabo 9.3 m. His staff 7.4 m
Collins 3 m His staff 3.2 m

Clemson facilities #1 (1-3 depending on who you listen to)
Tech Top 50

Most of the time when you race a Ferrari on a road course with a Camaro you find your *** handed to you . Maybe you need to be reminded of your investment.
We have a lot of Camaro’s Regularly on our schedule.

Not actually the case. Saw a study that the highest rate of a 4 star to reach the NFL (in the SEC) was Kentucky. Two things are at work here. 1. Alabama has a very high rate of 4 star players never earning a starting position. 2. Nearly every 4 star at Kentucky is a multi year starter.
You could easily switch Tech in for Kentucky and that statement would be true. Would Clayton have set on the bench for 2-3 years at Tech?

Are our facilities really top 50? I have no idea. They look nice to an occasional visitor but it was within living memory (circa 1979) that our facilities were widely regarded as the worst in what was then called Division 1.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I don't understand why the discussion has to be only between whether CPJ was a bum or CGC is a bum.

In the last few years of CPJ, the offense was really good except for when we played Clemson (and the mutts, but I don't want to show them any respect). This year, the offense has been pretty good, except for when we played Clemson. Maybe that has more to do with where Clemson is as a program than it has to do with where GT was and is.

The defensive line has suffered numerous injuries this year, and I think that is having a large effect on the defense. Some things that do concern me about the defense though are: The DBs either can't cover receivers, or they get lost in zones and don't cover their area correctly. (Maybe @Ibeeballin can do a film study of the defense and point out such things, but I don't know that the TV angle will even show the coverage to analyze) The DBs also seem to have a tendency to either try to strip the ball, or try to knock the ball carrier down instead of wrapping up and tackling them. Trying to strip the ball is fine, but not if you give up an additional 10 yards especially if they only need another 3 yards for a first down. It was apparent to me from the stands that the Clemson defensive players were in the correct position and did fundamental tackling. The defensive backfield is supposed to be a strength. Are the blown coverages lapses from the players or too little training in practice? Are they trying knockdown blows instead of wrapping up because the players don't do what they are taught, or are they taught to not wrap up? I don't know the answer to that.

The difference in QBs was apparent. Just before the touchdown to the TE, my buddy pointed out to me that the right side of Clemson's offense was under covered. There were two receivers, to which we had one CB on the outside receiver and a safety deep and halfway between the TE and the second receiver. There wasn't a LB to that side of the formation. The safety moved out and down to cover the receiver. The TE went straight out and no LB moved out to cover him. That was an easy pass and score. I think Lawrence saw the formation, knew that the safety could only cover one of them, and knew he was going to throw the ball to whichever receiver the safety didn't cover before the ball was snapped. I don't think Sims sees those kinds of things at this point. That isn't a criticism of him, he just needs experience and film study to get there.

I don't buy into all of the hype, but comparisons the B*** L**** seem well outside of reality. The un-namable coach completely lost the locker room. He took a QB that the team had bought into and replaced him with a guy that the team didn't trust. Things got so bad that he players went to talk to the AD and President about him. I would like for the team to be winning more games, but I haven't seen any indication that he is anything like un-namable.

I resent the tone of this post. There is only one bum around here and that's me only because I am retired and living the proverbial "Life of Riley" according to my wife. I hear her now complaining that I have not cut the grass like I promised last week.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I don't understand why the discussion has to be only between whether CPJ was a bum or CGC is a bum.

In the last few years of CPJ, the offense was really good except for when we played Clemson (and the mutts, but I don't want to show them any respect). This year, the offense has been pretty good, except for when we played Clemson. Maybe that has more to do with where Clemson is as a program than it has to do with where GT was and is.

The defensive line has suffered numerous injuries this year, and I think that is having a large effect on the defense. Some things that do concern me about the defense though are: The DBs either can't cover receivers, or they get lost in zones and don't cover their area correctly. (Maybe @Ibeeballin can do a film study of the defense and point out such things, but I don't know that the TV angle will even show the coverage to analyze) The DBs also seem to have a tendency to either try to strip the ball, or try to knock the ball carrier down instead of wrapping up and tackling them. Trying to strip the ball is fine, but not if you give up an additional 10 yards especially if they only need another 3 yards for a first down. It was apparent to me from the stands that the Clemson defensive players were in the correct position and did fundamental tackling. The defensive backfield is supposed to be a strength. Are the blown coverages lapses from the players or too little training in practice? Are they trying knockdown blows instead of wrapping up because the players don't do what they are taught, or are they taught to not wrap up? I don't know the answer to that.

The difference in QBs was apparent. Just before the touchdown to the TE, my buddy pointed out to me that the right side of Clemson's offense was under covered. There were two receivers, to which we had one CB on the outside receiver and a safety deep and halfway between the TE and the second receiver. There wasn't a LB to that side of the formation. The safety moved out and down to cover the receiver. The TE went straight out and no LB moved out to cover him. That was an easy pass and score. I think Lawrence saw the formation, knew that the safety could only cover one of them, and knew he was going to throw the ball to whichever receiver the safety didn't cover before the ball was snapped. I don't think Sims sees those kinds of things at this point. That isn't a criticism of him, he just needs experience and film study to get there.

I don't buy into all of the hype, but comparisons the B*** L**** seem well outside of reality. The un-namable coach completely lost the locker room. He took a QB that the team had bought into and replaced him with a guy that the team didn't trust. Things got so bad that he players went to talk to the AD and President about him. I would like for the team to be winning more games, but I haven't seen any indication that he is anything like un-namable.

Comparisons to Bill Lewis? Christ, either Coach Collins or Paul on the worst day they ever had were better than he who should be named.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

They had 3 QBs play. They didn’t have to play their punter, but they did, and the world knows it.

And 1 of the 2 QBs broke his wrist. The 3rd Dabo calls a walk-on, but he was a 3-star recruit who didn’t get a scholarship offer and came anyway. Their other QB DJ has a shoulder stinger. They currently have 2 healthy QBs on the roster - they have 1 single QB on scholarship who is healthy.. The punter or a direct snap RB should have played the entire second half.

if anybody didn’t listen to Dabo’s post game press conference, he said that in previous games this season, when he has brought in the back up players they have performed really poorly and kept the other team hanging around. (For example, Clemson scored 0 against Citadel in the second half and the backups did nothing against Wake). So he told his team at halftime against us that once he starts rotating in the back ups, they were going to be on a short leash and he and they were going to keep their foot on the pedal.

 

[Vespidae]

We haven't had anything to gauge that on since we haven't had 5 stars. Calvin Johnson was taken number 2 overall in the draft, and he's the closest to a 5* we've had. And that cuts against what you are saying.
The bottom line is that we need to start sending players to the NFL no matter the draft position. That didn't happen much under Johnson, and we have to climb over that hill. Collins has his work cut out for him, but some people seem to just like to criticize him rather than being realistic about the state of the program when he took over. Those people need to spend more time looking at the ATL chart and who actually starts and less time throwing out unsubstantiated opinions about this staff.

Calvin Johnson was taken number 2 overall in the draft, and he's the closest to a 5* we've had. And that cuts against what you are saying.

Do you know what I’m saying? I don’t think you do.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

So back in Colorado.
Not going to dwell on this disaster this weekend because it was. But I have questions and concerns

1. We entered this year with 18 returning starters. People say we are young but how if you have 18 returning starters. We chose to play a Freshman at QB and Mason's injury forced us to play a Freshman at RB. But where are some really good players, BJS, Tobias, Jerry Howard, James Graham. One might say the young guys are better but is that true when we add back in age and experience
2. Why did Lee Transfer, this guy has been a player for us?
3. I think Clemson had 20 possessions, 3 turnover's so they scored on 11 possessions, that is north of 50%. Why in the world would we run any kind of hurry up offense? It isn't like we are going to wear them down. Slow down, make each possession at least 3 minutes.
4. As I sate many times, our offense is plain Vanilla, NFL style. Clemson was able to just T-off on anything we did. Maybe incorporate some Jets, Option etc....oh that's right we can't recruit NFL caliber if we do that.

I think CGC will need to make a very big decision about his offense at the end of the season and CDP may need to go.

Oh and with any comment about how good Clemson is....They beat the Citadel 49-0 and Lawrence played into the 3rd quarter of that game.

I will only comment about "how good Clemson is" Best Clemson team I have ever seen, better than last year as good as it was. I mean, how many teams have two legit Heisman contenders? That said, the team that impressed me just from the stand point of what I was expecting to see was Alabama. I thought UGA would beat them, I continued to think that at half time but the second half left no doubts as to who has the better team. Alabama's quarterbacks and receivers are far superior. The good old days of defense wins championships are gone. UGA had the better defense but got shredded the second half. Offenses are just too good these days. You have to score and keep scoring or the other guys will kick in gear and leave you in the dust which is what happened to the Dwags.