Clemson game thread

[MidtownJacket]

I think that's where I keep ending up too.

This team is obviously still behind CBG and each other. While we obviously continue to have offensive problems we also continue to rebound well and play good to very good defense for long stretches of the game. Our APR and off court measurables are also significantly improved (on short order) for where we were when he came in.

Believe me, as an alum and someone who continues to donate to both the Institute AND GTAA I want to see wins too. At this point in our progression as a program I believe we are further along in the off court areas than I expected and obviously short of where I'd hoped we would be in recruiting and record.

I think it is easy to over look a lot of the good - and I think that is a mistake. We are a few pieces away from being a significantly better team. I know he has to recruit better and obviously we have to get our offensive sets into a better place, but I think Tadric will develop to be an offensive threat next season.

As many have said we need a shooter to emerge and keep defenses honest but to me the lesson from these close losses is we are closer to being good than seems apparent from the record.

Forgive the typos and brevity, this is a post from my phone.

 

[dtm1997]

@Old South Stands so we should let him play out a final year of his contract and take the risk that he improves enough to fill 5 scholarships in a year we need to reload when he's shown a less than stellar record of landing top kids when he had the ability to sell hope?

Even the kids who legit would like to choose GT aren't likely to because of potential for coaching change and their advisors are even less likely to allow that.

Finally, there's a wealth of discussion about the current state of the Hewitt contract and how it impacts us. Summarily, it's much less of a factor than it once was.

 

[Peacone36]

@Old South Stands so we should let him play out a final year of his contract and take the risk that he improves enough to fill 5 scholarships in a year we need to reload when he's shown a less than stellar record of landing top kids when he had the ability to sell hope?

Even the kids who legit would like to choose GT aren't likely to because of potential for coaching change and their advisors are even less likely to allow that.

Finally, there's a wealth of discussion about the current state of the Hewitt contract and how it impacts us. Summarily, it's much less of a factor than it once was.

Thank you. It's not just next year to look at. 2016 is huge for this program when it comes to roster turnover, if we don't bring impact players, something CBG has shown time and time again he cannot do, this program is SCREWED until 2020.

The CPH buyout has been negotiAted down to manageable according to RR. To use that as a reason to keep a TERRIBLE in game coach and recruiter is blasphemy.

 

[Old South Stands]

@Old South Stands Finally, there's a wealth of discussion about the current state of the Hewitt contract and how it impacts us. Summarily, it's much less of a factor than it once was.

It will be even less of a factor next year than this year.

Don't know how it is with basketball, but in football, it's the assistants and behind-the-scenes folks who have a great individual impact on recruiting. So it's probably not all on Coach Gregory there. The immediate benefit of hiring a new coach will likely be a few more wins in close games, but there's still no telling how it will play out in the long run, or even if the next coach will be a good fit. When Coach Bobby Ross came in, there were a number of Curry's players who didn't like him or his style of discipline. There were all kinds of motivational problems and grumblings, and it took a couple seasons-and-a-half to iron it all out before the team started clicking. Terrible records in '87 and '88. Coach Curry was a very popular coach with the players and many of the fans. Even though he voluntarily left the program for a historic rival, people still revered him and resented the new coach.

The players seem to like Coach Gregory, and he represents Tech well. He even looks like a 'Tech' type of person (don't know how exactly to describe what that is... attitude, maybe. Cremins had that 'Tech' something, Coach Johnson has it... Coach Gailey didn't, Bill Lewis didn't). As Midtown Jacket mentioned above, it looks like this team is a couple ingredients away from being pretty good. Letting CBG coach out his last year is a good move, considering the intangibles. It's only another year.

 

[Peacone36]

Players like White, Prohm and Mack too. Almost I'm sure as much as they like winning.

Their kids also graduate. And they win

Those coaches recruit well. And they win

Those coaches are relatively cheap. And they win


What is the downside?
The only thing we have to lose is the losing.

 

[dtm1997]

It will be even less of a factor next year than this year.

Don't know how it is with basketball, but in football, it's the assistants and behind-the-scenes folks who have a great individual impact on recruiting. So it's probably not all on Coach Gregory there. The immediate benefit of hiring a new coach will likely be a few more wins in close games, but there's still no telling how it will play out in the long run, or even if the next coach will be a good fit. When Coach Bobby Ross came in, there were a number of Curry's players who didn't like him or his style of discipline. There were all kinds of motivational problems and grumblings, and it took a couple seasons-and-a-half to iron it all out before the team started clicking. Terrible records in '87 and '88. Coach Curry was a very popular coach with the players and many of the fans. Even though he voluntarily left the program for a historic rival, people still revered him and resented the new coach.

The players seem to like Coach Gregory, and he represents Tech well. He even looks like a 'Tech' type of person (don't know how exactly to describe what that is... attitude, maybe. Cremins had that 'Tech' something, Coach Johnson has it... Coach Gailey didn't, Bill Lewis didn't). As Midtown Jacket mentioned above, it looks like this team is a couple ingredients away from being pretty good. Letting CBG coach out his last year is a good move, considering the intangibles. It's only another year.

I started a response to discuss the pros & cons, but this response indicates you're either going to be steadfast in supporting another year of BG, you don't know how college hoops works, when there's already been so much discussion about it in the "Coaches On The Hot Seat" thread or both.

I wish you the best of luck with your view and respect the fact that we won't be agreeing on how the program should proceed.

 

[awbuzz]

Proud of the team to have fought back to force OT. Sucks that our FT shooting and FG shooting aren't just a tad better. If so this game and a few others would have been W's.
Thankful that the team didn't appear to "mail it in" at the end of the game.

 

[Old South Stands]

I started a response to discuss the pros & cons, but this response indicates you're either going to be steadfast in supporting another year of BG, you don't know how college hoops works, when there's already been so much discussion about it in the "Coaches On The Hot Seat" thread or both.

I wish you the best of luck with your view and respect the fact that we won't be agreeing on how the program should proceed.

I don't know the intricate ins-and-outs of how college hoops works, not nearly as much as football, I'll admit. If this were the football program, I'd probably be more inclined to want him replaced. Biased a little in that area. Because Tech is historically more of a football school than a basketball school (I remember the Duane Morrison years, prior to Cremins), I'm more inclined to want to keep a guy like Gregory for his enthusiasm and off-the-court intangibles, especially since it's only one more year and he's giving it his best. I certainly don't advocate keeping him forever, though! Definitely respect your opinion, and the fact that Tech basketball is equally important to many Tech sports fans. And I like winning, too, regardless of the sport. It feels very good that Tech's baseball program has done so well over the years!

 

[dtm1997]

@Old South Stands I certainly agree that BG has done a lot of good, the kids keep busting their ***, and the academic house is in order. I'd have loved to see him succeed here because I flat out want GT to be successful.

Here's the football comparison. If CPJ doesn't win last year like he did, great chance he'd have been replaced. That said, he has a history of better overall performance in regard to W/L record. For that reason, there was always a high likelihood he gets retained and this allowed business as usual in recruiting and in the program.

BG doesn't have that past performance track record to point to, he's got all his own players in the program now, and he's shown an inability to close the recruits assistants bring in or provide enough evidence to compete for better recruits. He came in to the season on much shakier ground and actually solidified things in the OOC schedule to a degree that he may not be going anywhere. ACC season starts and these kids have put forth massive efforts to hang with some great teams and awful teams, but generally speaking, moral victories are not the goal. Wins are. Doesn't matter how many times we stay in a close game if you can point directly to his coaching and say we lost because of it. In fact, that's more damning that being highly competitive. We'd have won if not for his coaching.

He certainly appears to be a good person and he's done good things for the program, but he's had his chance and he has not succeeded. It's time for a change in no uncertain terms at this point, in my opinion. The big question is whether Bobinski has that same opinion because his is the only one that matters now.

 

[Peacone36]

If this were the football program, I'd probably be more inclined to want him replaced. Biased a little in that area.

That doesn't make any sense


That says, it's ok to suck at basketball because we are a football school so let's not even try. Which makes your opinion dismissible.

 

[Old South Stands]

That says, it's ok to suck at basketball because we are a football school so let's not even try. Which makes your opinion dismissible.

Didn't say we shouldn't try to be good, just not as passionate as some about replacing him this year versus next if he doesn't improve. That's all. If my quote were dismissible, you wouldn't have responded to it, but simply dismissed it.

 

[Peacone36]

Haha, touche'

 

[Peacone36]

In short the recruiting class of 2016 could set the precedent for the program for the next 10 years and CBGS can't recruit and have proven that. The timing to replace him is perfect and costs us 650k. Increased revenue through season tickets and attendance by naming a new quality coach will eventuLly make the replacement look like a sound financial decision.

 

[MWBATL]

Didn't say we shouldn't try to be good, just not as passionate as some about replacing him this year versus next if he doesn't improve. That's all. If my quote were dismissible, you wouldn't have responded to it, but simply dismissed it.

As a disinterested bystander, I don't think you are hearing what they are telling you. A one year extension will have an impact for many years beyond that.

 

[franklinjacket]

You can't just let him play out his last contract year. If he were to go into next year without extending his contract one more year, we might not land a single recruit. If CBG doesn't have some semblance of job security, recruits aren't going to sign up for an uncertain future either. To give him one more year means extending him.

For those of you who don't want to fire him, do you think this year has earned him an extension?

 

[swampsting]

In short the recruiting class of 2016 could set the precedent for the program for the next 10 years and CBGS can't recruit and have proven that. The timing to replace him is perfect and costs us 650k. Increased revenue through season tickets and attendance by naming a new quality coach will eventuLly make the replacement look like a sound financial decision.

While I don't think the recruiting has been outstanding, it hasn't been terrible. MGH, Robert Carter Jr and Tadric Jackson were all prime time recruits. One's still here and playing his guts out every game, one bagged it and the other one ... well, here's hoping he gets better. Markedly better. He does have upside. I just hope he finds it. A lot of folks wanted Solomon Poole. We won that battle. Now, we all wish we hadn't.

But time is running out on finding some signees for next season, guys who could come in and help because help is needed. Gregory and staff were pretty close with Gant, the state player of the year who wound up signing with Mizzou. I don't know that they could have him gotten him into school, for one.

 

[Peacone36]

Compare the talent in our program to the talent that came up within 75 miles of any direction from campus. Carter leaving is a fail. If you get em you have to keep em for this guy to care. Taking Solo over Morris and potentially Quarterman is a terrible mistake. If I have to explain it, you don't get it.

 

[Peacone36]

I like Jorgy and Q but they are role player, you don't uild around them. Bolden hasn't developed and plays like he is baked half the time. Gueye, yeah ok. Apart from MGH zero impact players. Great role players though. Which is good for 4 ACC wins annually

 

[swampsting]

Bolden hasn't developed and plays like he is baked half the time.

Since Bolden hasn't played since getting kicked off two weeks ago, he's got all the time in the world to bake.

 

[bke1984]

2001 aCC/big10 challenge against Wisconsin? Big come back that year to win. Not sure the deficit.

I was at that game. We were down 20 at halftime. Akins hit a ton of deep threes in the second half. Great game.

I didn't get to watch this game, but it did seem impressive how we fought back. However, when you fight back from a deficit like that to force overtime you are supposed to win. I know it doesn't always turn out that way, but in those scenarios you have all the momentum. How do we manage just three points in OT?

Losing that way actually feels worse than just getting blown out...