Clemson Crossover Game

[Animal02]

It just felt to me like FSU was not being judged by the same standards as some other teams but that is just me. I could not for the life of me understand why Missy State was the top team in the nation for over five weeks. Except that the narrative last season was that SEC teams playing SEC teams are counted differently than other conference teams playing each other.

I agree completely......had the "selection" committee tried to exclude an undefeated FSU in favor of a SEC team that did not even win their division, the CFP would have ended quickly. The entire selection process halfway through the season is a farce to gin up TV ratings.

 

[WreckinGT]

So? What's your point? I was responding to assertion about simply being undefeated.

I thought my point was pretty clear. Sorry if you are confused. The reason that FSU was close to being left out was because they were under a microscope every week and every week they tried their best to look like a team that may not even deserve to be in the top 10. They did everything in their power to tempt the playoff committee into excluding them and even then they still made the playoffs.

 

[AE 87]

I thought my point was pretty clear. Sorry if you are confused. The reason that FSU was close to being left out was because they were under a microscope every week and every week they tried their best to look like a team that may not even deserve to be in the top 10. They did everything in their power to tempt the playoff committee into excluding them and even then they still made the playoffs.

OK. I understood what you said but didn't understand why you said it.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Not at all......the OoC schedule being strong is far more important. AS I have posted many times....I would like to see the FCS games eliminated for those who wish to contend for the CFP.
I would rather have Tech see FSU and Louisville as well as Clemp roll around in the schedule every 4 years......

I get that. And you make a strong case.

I just really like playing Clemson every year. Out of the 29 teams that Tech has regularly scheduled over the last hundred years or so they are our fourth most played team behind Georgia, Duke and Auburn. Of course, I am totally inconsistent at this point because I would trade Duke in a heart beat for another team.

 

[Skeptic]

Better that than 60% filthy dwags at BDS. There are of course always exceptions but for the most part Clemson's fans seem knowledgeable and decent.

Do we travel well up there? They should be able to say the same of us. Not far, decent drive.

Over the years I have been to three Tech games at Clemson. Because the guy giving me seats has them on the Clemson side, I get a first hand look, and sound, of them. You're right in my view. They are knowledgeable, and demanding, and because they are both can appreciate a good play even by the opposition. Courteous and helpful though not reluctant to sometimes not so gently stick a verbal finger in your ribs. Always enjoy the experience. And keeping say Duke with a 33,000 seat stadium and dumping Clemson with an 82,000 venue is just nutso. Think ND will be asked to dump Navy?

 

[Animal02]

I get that. And you make a strong case.

I just really like playing Clemson every year. Out of the 29 teams that Tech has regularly scheduled over the last hundred years or so they are our fourth most played team behind Georgia, Duke and Auburn. Of course, I am totally inconsistent at this point because I would trade Duke in a heart beat for another team.

I would not be opposed to flipping DuhU with Clemp in the Coastal and then doing away with the cross over rivalry game. It is not so much about having a tough game as it is teams like VT and Duke getting a free pass every year.

 

[deeeznutz]

It just felt to me like FSU was not being judged by the same standards as some other teams but that is just me. I could not for the life of me understand why Missy State was the top team in the nation for over five weeks. Except that the narrative last season was that SEC teams playing SEC teams are counted differently than other conference teams playing each other.

FSU was partly being judged more harshly due to the Jameis Winston situation. If he hadn't raped that girl the narrative around the team would have been completely different. He would have been seen as a hero who "just wins".

 

[dressedcheeseside]

All this talk of dropping teams is completely unnecessary. I said it earlier, only count the division games in the divisional race. In fact, I'd go so far to say after you schedule your 6 game Coastal slate, schedule anybody your heart desires, they won't count towards winning the division other than deciding ties. My tie breaker rules would be look at head to head and if that doesn't settle it, let the AP poll position decide. That way, you better schedule some quality opponents OOD.

 

[BabyJacket1990]

I wouldn't mind dropping Clemson from the schedule as long as we would schedule a very attractive Non Conference game.

 

[Squint]

I say no way we drop Clemson. No one seems to be pointing out the fact that recruits want to play the big boys. We used to play Auburn, Tennessee, Alabama, etc and you can bet your a$$ we would be filling up the stadium if we still played them regularly (given we are competitive). Clemson isn't as big as those, but they aren't far behind, and the stadium is full when they come. If we tell the recruits "yeah, you get to play Wake, NC St. and Duke this year" (for example) that probably doesn't impress. Clemson and Georgia are our attractive games to the recruits and sidewalk fans (maybe even VT and Miami as well), so IMO losing them scheduled regularly means taking a step down in recruiting, so would we then beat the Wake's and BC's? We can't afford to lose fan interest either. There certainly aren't any magic solutions but dang I am not looking forward to playing Alcorn State or Tulane. I have to travel around the southeast for work, and no one wants to talk about GT because we aren't in the SEC and we aren't Clemson or FSU. Gotta play somebody to be relevant and make it fun to watch.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I say no way we drop Clemson. No one seems to be pointing out the fact that recruits want to play the big boys. We used to play Auburn, Tennessee, Alabama, etc and you can bet your a$$ we would be filling up the stadium if we still played them regularly (given we are competitive). Clemson isn't as big as those, but they aren't far behind, and the stadium is full when they come. If we tell the recruits "yeah, you get to play Wake, NC St. and Duke this year" (for example) that probably doesn't impress. Clemson and Georgia are our attractive games to the recruits and sidewalk fans (maybe even VT and Miami as well), so IMO losing them scheduled regularly means taking a step down in recruiting, so would we then beat the Wake's and BC's? We can't afford to lose fan interest either. There certainly aren't any magic solutions but dang I am not looking forward to playing Alcorn State or Tulane. I have to travel around the southeast for work, and no one wants to talk about GT because we aren't in the SEC and we aren't Clemson or FSU. Gotta play somebody to be relevant and make it fun to watch.

I agree with the main jist of your post, but at the same time I'm so thankful for those two tune up games before ND to get the kinks worked out with all our noobs.

 

[bke1984]

So you are in favor of playing a particular team over obtaining the yearly goal of the team?

The goal of the team should be winning the ACC and getting in and winning the CFP.....I see no reason to handicap that goal by forcing a made up rivalry.

I'm probably going to sound like an a**hole here, but removing a tough team from your schedule so you can win more games is shameful. I want no part of that...ever.

I seem to remember Tech doing this once before (Alabama in the 60's). I know some of you may say leaving the SEC was because of the cheap shot in the '63 game or recruiting or something else, but read Dodd's Luck. He specifically says he planned on dropping them because we had a tough time competing. So we then leave the SEC and fall slowly into an abyss that took us nearly 25 years to crawl out of.

And btw... For those of you that think conference schedules don't matter, see TCU and Baylor from this season...or what about Boise State...they weren't even in the conversation when they were undefeated late in the season.

Made up rivalry? The games in this series have been some of the most exciting games Tech has played in the last 20 years. Clemson is a great game. Great games are what makes me love college football.

Hell, why stop at Clemson. Georgia is our biggest obstacle from going undefeated in any given season. Might as well drop that game too, right?

You want to watch us whoop 12 Presbyterians every year and win some FCS conference? If so then I recommend picking a Southern Conference team to pull for instead.

 

[Animal02]

I'm probably going to sound like an a**hole here, but removing a tough team from your schedule so you can win more games is shameful. I want no part of that...ever.

I seem to remember Tech doing this once before (Alabama in the 60's). I know some of you may say leaving the SEC was because of the cheap shot in the '63 game or recruiting or something else, but read Dodd's Luck. He specifically says he planned on dropping them because we had a tough time competing. So we then leave the SEC and fall slowly into an abyss that took us nearly 25 years to crawl out of.

And btw... For those of you that think conference schedules don't matter, see TCU and Baylor from this season...or what about Boise State...they weren't even in the conversation when they were undefeated late in the season.

Made up rivalry? The games in this series have been some of the most exciting games Tech has played in the last 20 years. Clemson is a great game. Great games are what makes me love college football.

Hell, why stop at Clemson. Georgia is our biggest obstacle from going undefeated in any given season. Might as well drop that game too, right?

You want to watch us whoop 12 Presbyterians every year and win some FCS conference? If so then I recommend picking a Southern Conference team to pull for instead.

It is not simply a matter of removing a tough team from the schedule to win more games......the goal is to win the ACC and get into the CFP. There is a big difference. With a 4 team CFP, you will need to be the ACC champ to make it in. The "cross over rivalry" is a handicap to achieve that goal compared to what Duke and VT play against.

No, conference schedules do not matter for the P5 when you are undefeated. The selection committee will not pass over an undefeated P5 team because of the in conference schedule.......they very well may for the OoC schedule however.

As for the made up rivalry...yes, it is a construct of the ACC divisions / scheduling

 

[bke1984]

It is not simply a matter of removing a tough team from the schedule to win more games......the goal is to win the ACC and get into the CFP. There is a big difference. With a 4 team CFP, you will need to be the ACC champ to make it in. The "cross over rivalry" is a handicap to achieve that goal compared to what Duke and VT play against.

No, conference schedules do not matter for the P5 when you are undefeated. The selection committee will not pass over an undefeated P5 team because of the in conference schedule.......they very well may for the OoC schedule however.

As for the made up rivalry...yes, it is a construct of the ACC divisions / scheduling

Here's a list of the teams we've played 10 or more times since 1975 sorted by average margin of decision. It's the closest series we play. They are a rival

 

[bke1984]

It is not simply a matter of removing a tough team from the schedule to win more games......the goal is to win the ACC and get into the CFP. There is a big difference. With a 4 team CFP, you will need to be the ACC champ to make it in. The "cross over rivalry" is a handicap to achieve that goal compared to what Duke and VT play against....

There is not a big difference...you can try to spin it any way that you want, but what you're suggesting is that we remove a tough team from our schedule so we can win one more game consistently.

Look, if that's really how you feel then that's OK. It's just your opinion.

I for one just want to see good college football games year in and year out. I think that if we have a team that's good enough to make the CFP then we'll probably make the CFP under our current schedule. I just don't see a reason to change it.

 

[Animal02]

Here's a list of the teams we've played 10 or more times since 1975 sorted by average margin of decision. It's the closest series we play. They are a rival

View attachment 874

Nothing like cherry picking the data......If anything, Duke is the more natural rival. The ACC created the "cross division rivalry" with Clemp when they went to division, with out THAT, the numbers would not be as high.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

I'm probably going to sound like an a**hole here.

Correct. You do sound like an ***hole. Nobody suggested playing 12 Presbyterians. Much ado about nothing. Were not going to the playoffs, but the set up, as is, is not in our favor compared to Va Tech, UNC, and Duke and their crossover games.

 

[Animal02]

There is not a big difference...you can try to spin it any way that you want, but what you're suggesting is that we remove a tough team from our schedule so we can win one more game consistently.

Look, if that's really how you feel then that's OK. It's just your opinion.

I for one just want to see good college football games year in and year out. I think that if we have a team that's good enough to make the CFP then we'll probably make the CFP under our current schedule. I just don't see a reason to change it.

Huge difference, the goal every year is to win the ACC and get to the CFP......not just play 'tough' games. You can ignore that all you want. but we should not have to play "tougher" teams every year than any other when competing for the same goal.

 

[bke1984]

Nothing like cherry picking the data......If anything, Duke is the more natural rival. The ACC created the "cross division rivalry" with Clemp when they went to division, with out THAT, the numbers would not be as high.

Not cherry picking data. I counted every game we've played since 1975. You want to see the numbers for all teams in the last 40 years rather than just those we play all the time? The top 20 or so are shown below. I originally filtered by teams we play often to give it a bit more context with regards to our typical schedule. It's not like I limited it to teams we've played 30 or more times.

Clemson is absolutely the closest series we play and one of the most exciting games on a constant basis. Why do you want to drop that? It's so much fun to watch that game and compete against them.

 

[presjacket]

Does anyone know why we did not play Clemson in the 1978-1982 seasons?