CGC's Pitt Postgame Press Conference

[ibeattetris]

Special teams success is dependent upon athleticism above all else. Also, the punts in the Pitt game left a ton to be desired.

True to a large extent. However, we have not had a a worse KRE since 2007. "Kickoff Return efficiency (KRE) and Kickoff efficiency (KE) are the average values generated per kickoff based on field position at the conclusion of the play."

I have a hard time believing our talent is 90+ ranks worse from last season, and this drastically worse than any team in the last 12 years.

 

[Boaty1]

True to a large extent. However, we have not had a a worse KRE since 2007. "Kickoff Return efficiency (KRE) and Kickoff efficiency (KE) are the average values generated per kickoff based on field position at the conclusion of the play."
View attachment 7120

I have a hard time believing our talent is 90+ ranks worse from last season, and this drastically worse than any team in the last 12 years.

I misunderstood and was referring to net punting. The KO return game was just awful against Pitt I know that and it looks like it has been that way all year according to your numbers. I will say that Thomas is an elite returner that we had last year and have not this year due to injury. With that said however it doesn't matter what you are doing if you are getting penalties on the amount of returns we have seen this year. Just brutal!

 

[ibeattetris]

I misunderstood and was referring to net punting. The KO return game was just awful against Pitt I know that and it looks like it has been that way all year according to your numbers. I will say that Thomas is an elite returner that we had last year and have not this year due to injury. With that said however it doesn't matter what you are doing if you are getting penalties on the amount of returns we have seen this year. Just brutal!

I have no idea what is going on with punting. We went from 4th overall in punt efficiency to 98th.

As for kickoffs, missing Juanyeh is killing us as you mentioned. I still wouldn't have expected this type of drop off.

 

[Boaty1]

I have no idea what is going on with punting. We went from 4th overall in punt efficiency to 98th.

As for kickoffs, missing Juanyeh is killing us as you mentioned. I still wouldn't have expected this type of drop off.

First let me say the data you bring to these discussions is awesome and much appreciated!

I don't have the year long data, but I walked away from the Pitt game thinking that Harvin performed really poorly. It seems he kicked a ton of really low returnable balls. Do you have any advanced metrics on a punters performance individually or is everything unit oriented?

 

[ibeattetris]

BCF just goes by unit. I can get the data for average punt distance and return, but it would take some time.
This is Harvin's current stats. Higher average punt by three yards but lower net by a yard.

For the Pitt game:
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 48 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 24 yds to the Pitt 45"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 46 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 16 yds to the Pitt 39"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 53 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for a loss of 2 yards to the Pitt 14"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 48 yds, downed at the Pitt 3"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 43 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for no gain to the Pitt 40"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 57 yds for a touchback"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 40 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 19 yds to the GTech 42"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 36 yds"

Apart from the final two, he had an okay day in total yards. Ffrench is supposed to be a pretty good returner, and we didn't do a good enough job containing him for sure.

 

[Boaty1]

BCF just goes by unit. I can get the data for average punt distance and return, but it would take some time.
This is Harvin's current stats. Higher average punt by three yards but lower net by a yard.
View attachment 7121

For the Pitt game:
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 48 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 24 yds to the Pitt 45"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 46 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 16 yds to the Pitt 39"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 53 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for a loss of 2 yards to the Pitt 14"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 48 yds, downed at the Pitt 3"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 43 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for no gain to the Pitt 40"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 57 yds for a touchback"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 40 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 19 yds to the GTech 42"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 36 yds"

Apart from the final two, he had an okay day in total yards. Ffrench is supposed to be a pretty good returner, and we didn't do a good enough job containing him for sure.

Good stuff and I certainly don't want you to go out of your way. You have done plenty!

I do believe there is more to a punters performance than just yards. For example hang time is key and effects the net return game. On Ffrench's 3 big returns I believe they all had a really low trajectory which made the coverage difficult. On the 19 yard return it even looked like he kicked it away from the design of the coverage. Even the 43 yard punt that had no return was simply a great play Cottrell. When the ball was in the air I actually told my son that we were in trouble but Nate bailed us out. If he missed that tackle there was nobody else around.

Maybe I'm holding Harvin to too high of a standard but I just wasn't impressed this past week.

 

[ibeattetris]

Good stuff and I certainly don't want you to go out of your way. You have done plenty!

I do believe there is more to a punters performance than just yards. For example hang time is key and effects the net return game. On Ffrench's 3 big returns I believe they all had a really low trajectory which made the coverage difficult. On the 19 yard return it even looked like he kicked it away from the design of the coverage. Even the 43 yard punt that had no return was simply a great play Cottrell. When the ball was in the air I actually told my son that we were in trouble but Nate bailed us out. If he missed that tackle there was nobody else around.

Maybe I'm holding Harvin to too high of a standard but I just wasn't impressed this past week.

I can’t find anything like hang time or “outside the numbers” like they keep for NFL. I know there are some proprietary stat dbs but I don’t have access to any of them.

 

[jacket_fan]

Good stuff and I certainly don't want you to go out of your way. You have done plenty!

I do believe there is more to a punters performance than just yards. For example hang time is key and effects the net return game. On Ffrench's 3 big returns I believe they all had a really low trajectory which made the coverage difficult. On the 19 yard return it even looked like he kicked it away from the design of the coverage. Even the 43 yard punt that had no return was simply a great play Cottrell. When the ball was in the air I actually told my son that we were in trouble but Nate bailed us out. If he missed that tackle there was nobody else around.

Maybe I'm holding Harvin to too high of a standard but I just wasn't impressed this past week.

We may hold him to too high a standard. I am glad he plays for Tech. His performance is one of the highlights of the year. He has had some of the most beautiful punts. You really have to be at the stadium to appreciate the heights and distance.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

BCF just goes by unit. I can get the data for average punt distance and return, but it would take some time.
This is Harvin's current stats. Higher average punt by three yards but lower net by a yard.
View attachment 7121

For the Pitt game:
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 48 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 24 yds to the Pitt 45"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 46 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 16 yds to the Pitt 39"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 53 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for a loss of 2 yards to the Pitt 14"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 48 yds, downed at the Pitt 3"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 43 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for no gain to the Pitt 40"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 57 yds for a touchback"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 40 yds , Maurice Ffrench returns for 19 yds to the GTech 42"
"play_text": "Pressley Harvin III punt for 36 yds"

Apart from the final two, he had an okay day in total yards. Ffrench is supposed to be a pretty good returner, and we didn't do a good enough job containing him for sure.

Thanks for the data. I hope to care enough at some point to get back into it. *

The KO return philosophy really bothered me on Saturday. It's a coaching thing to me.




* I'm glad we are transitioning to a new coach and really hope Collins works out. But working on ugly data is just depressing. I do it for a living and won't on my "free" time.

 

[SteamWhistle]

Man I have never seen someone move the goalpost so much. The backside guard only pulls on a rocket if the play side is covered. The A back only leads into the alley if the guy he needs to block is playing out there otherwise he arcs inside.

On the goal lline, usually both guards are covered, so the call is for the B Back to lead outside and the playside a back still arcs, his guy is just on the line of scrimmage. I know whistles a kid but damn watch some youtube.

Not moving the goal post they just don’t know what a real rocket toss is.

 

[jgtengineer]

Not moving the goal post they just don’t know what a real rocket toss is.

You are kidding me right. You habe chosen one very specific way of blocking the outside toss play in that offense to be your "real rocket toss" you would see the goal line blocking variation against any stacked box when short yardage is the goal. There are about 6 ways to block that play including the traditional scoop and crack until they outlawed it.

 

[SteamWhistle]

You are kidding me right. You habe chosen one very specific way of blocking the outside toss play in that offense to be your "real rocket toss" you would see the goal line blocking variation against any stacked box when short yardage is the goal. There are about 6 ways to block that play including the traditional scoop and crack until they outlawed it.

Imo if the AB is chipping on the outside instead of extending to the next level it’s a crack toss.

 

[ibeattetris]

Imo if the AB is chipping on the outside instead of extending to the next level it’s a crack toss.

You can't just use your opinion to change a set definition of what a play is...

 

[SteamWhistle]

You can't just use your opinion to change a set definition of what a play is...

Most crack toss include a WR or in our case an AB doing a crack block block on the LOS which is why it’s called a crack toss. That’s not an opinion.

 

[slugboy]

Thanks for the data. I hope to care enough at some point to get back into it. *

The KO return philosophy really bothered me on Saturday. It's a coaching thing to me.




* I'm glad we are transitioning to a new coach and really hope Collins works out. But working on ugly data is just depressing. I do it for a living and won't on my "free" time.

After the first punt, and more strongly after the second, I wondered why we didn’t sacrifice a couple of yards and punt it out of bounds.

After the first two, it wasn’t as bad, though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jgtengineer]

Most crack toss include a WR or in our case an AB doing a crack block block on the LOS which is why it’s called a crack toss. That’s not an opinion.

Mate rocket refers to the type of motion and where the ball is dished to the back. the rocket toss is a farther toss than the Toss Crack not the blocking scheme at all. It's ok to be wrong. If you really are attending Tech that is a lesson you are going to learn very very quickly.

 

[WrongShadeOfGold]

I have no idea what is going on with punting. We went from 4th overall in punt efficiency to 98th.

As for kickoffs, missing Juanyeh is killing us as you mentioned. I still wouldn't have expected this type of drop off.

Juanyeh was back there with Tobias for one of the kickoff returns. Which brings me to another gripe of mine...why do we have a revolving door of returners back there? Much like the 3 QB rotation, it just makes no sense. Put the 2 best back there ON EVERY KICKOFF RETURN!!!

 

[stech81]

Juanyeh was back there with Tobias for one of the kickoff returns. Which brings me to another gripe of mine...why do we have a revolving door of returners back there? Much like the 3 QB rotation, it just makes no sense. Put the 2 best back there ON EVERY KICKOFF RETURN!!!

But what about the ATL

 

[SteamWhistle]

Mate rocket refers to the type of motion and where the ball is dished to the back. the rocket toss is a farther toss than the Toss Crack not the blocking scheme at all. It's ok to be wrong. If you really are attending Tech that is a lesson you are going to learn very very quickly.

I still thought the difference in Toss and Crack was more of blocking then then the toss.

 

[jgtengineer]

I still thought the difference in Toss and Crack was more of blocking then then the toss.

Its about play design, both plays are designed to do the same thing. In johnson's offense the Rocket Toss can be a Toss Crack, or it can be blocked like a sweep, or power toss, or lead toss. Depending. Rocket refers to the motion of the A back and the concept of where the ball is recieved.

In a Toss Crack out of single back you may or may not pull. Same in a Rocket toss. The rocket you are referencing is the "optimal" way to block the play against a 4-3 or 4-4 optimal alignment.