CGC reminds him of Butch Jones

Augusta_Jacket

Augusta_Jacket

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Gtbowhunter90 said:
What he failed to mention in his story is how those guys were snapped up by none other than Geoff Collins.
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It seems the story has changed somewhat. Several years ago the narrative was that we needed to get Gif Smith back as he was the architect of the 2007 class, and to be fair, he was the primary recruiter of most of the heavy weights in that class. CGC was on the staff, but I don't think it's fair to say he was the primary source of the success. To me, he has enough recruiting prowess on his on without having to rewrite the history books to prop him up. He's doing just fine so far.
 
vamosjackets

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GTrob21 said:
I read the article and said "So what", there were numerous threads on this very topic over the GT boards.

Coach Collins gets the importance of recruiting... what hasn't been set is his ability to coach the X's and O's.

I remember when they were calling Dabo, a clown, for his recruiting antics...those same people are calling Clemson a dynasty.

You need to have both parts of a great salesperson and a great tactician if you want to be a legend. Far too often a coach only has one.
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Dabo is not a tactician. He hired tacticians, and he took his unlimited resources and made the best hires in the country - Morris (and Morris' protege's), and later Venables (after a failed first attempt at DC). If he doesn't have those resources and make those hires, there is no Clemson dynasty. I give him credit for making those hires - great job. But, we don't have the resources to make those hires (and make mistakes on hires) like he did. We can't afford to pay a great cheerleader as the HC AND pay the best OC in the country AND pay the best DC in the country. Add in the recruiting-academics factors, and we are fooling ourselves in trying to do anything like Clemson. If we're going to do it, it's going to have to be a different way. HOW?? One way that could have been a possibility (and was even a partial reality for us in a few recent years) was to do the CPJ-route - quite arguably the best OC in the country (give him just 2 or 3 pieces and it can't be stopped) - be different than everybody else and be the absolute best in the country at it, paying a guy the blue-bloods wouldn't hire just because of the recruiting-perception - then you get the two-for-one, and then use what we have to find and pay the best DC in the country. That would've also worked for Jeff Monken. Oh well ... we'll see what happens. I think our ceiling with CGC is the George O'Leary era - which could be pretty darn good ... but O'Leary's success was very linked to having the best OC in the country. Will CGC have the best coordinator in the country on one side of the ball (himself, Thacker, & Burton on defense)? That would be cool, and I'm hoping for it.
 
vamosjackets

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I thought that was a very good article, pretty much CPJ-centric rather than being CGC-centric. And, I think he insightfully nailed some points eloquently on the head. The Butch comparison is pretty weak, but not entirely off base with the branding/recruiting-centric approach. But, with CGC, the more insightful comparison was less about Butch Jones and more what he termed the "neo-coach" - the upbeat, out-front, marketer. The question, then is whether CGC is unique in this regard of if he is a pretty typical "neo-coach". He seemed pretty unique to me, extremely strong on connecting with players, recruits, and fans and constantly churning with ideas in this regard. The fact that he (along with Thacker and Burton) could also bring elite coordination on the defensive side of the ball gives me hope. What folks tend to underestimate is 1. luck - there's stuff that happens that can make or break a game/season/era that is out of your control ... and also the head guy surrounding himself with greatness, finding other coaches/leaders that can be difference makers. I realllly like what CGC has done with the staff - Thacker, Burton, Choice, Caralla - these guys are unique and could become a crew that is the best staff in the business. I'm not sold on the OC - is there any uniqueness (anything special) there? I'll be hoping so and giving a few years to make determinations.

The most illogical point of the article was this:
In 2008 and 2009 and 2014 and 2016, his teams won nine or more games. (“They haven’t done that very often around here,” Johnson would note.) Later results showed a marked decline, a sign the rest of the ACC had begun to catch on, and it was with some relief the Institute accepted Johnson’s resignation in November.
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That makes no sense ... all you have to do is look at the years to determine there is no "pattern" of "catching on" there. Great, GREAT, middle, middle, good, middle, GREAT, bad, Great, middle, middle ... No pattern at all. It all had to do with having or not having just a couple of good pieces (especially at QB), and some luck. Crap, if we had any defensive prowess at all, there is no "catching on", there's just straight dominance.
 
TooTall

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Very true. Remember the 6-7 clemson record in 2010? Neither do they, too much RINGing in their halls...But seriously, Dabo is a great general because he give his guys enough rope to hang themselves on. He got the best young guys, Morris and Venables, in the country and let them do what they do. All the credit that Dabo gets is justified. He isn't as hands on as Saban, but he's behind the scenes and knows whats going on. The coordinators earn respect by the paychecks they cash every month.
"I ain't never seen a coordinators name in the paper after a loss." Herman Boone Remember the Titans
 

YJMD

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Dabo worked well with their athletic department and focused on building facilities and making the place great for players and loving on his guys. He always points to the future and growing and making his decisions with intention to move in that direction at every turn. He is different than CGC and Tech is different than Clemson, but that basic working relationship and intentional growth focus is the same.
 
AE 87

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Weirdest, Longest, off-season

Our new head-coach has never led a power 5 team. Neither our Defensive Coordinator nor our Offensive Coordinator has coordinated a squad of a power 5 team.

We're entering into 2019 with a team almost entirely recruited by CPJ people. So, our success for this year is dependent on coaching, not recruiting (yes, recruiting is an aspect of college coaching, but you know what I mean).

What we see on the field THIS year, will tell us a lot about what we can expect in the years to come, imo. Only after we see that will we be able to tell how apt the comparisons to Butch really are.
 
Gtbowhunter90

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AE 87 said:
Weirdest, Longest, off-season

Our new head-coach has never led a power 5 team. Neither our Defensive Coordinator nor our Offensive Coordinator has coordinated a squad of a power 5 team.

We're entering into 2019 with a team almost entirely recruited by CPJ people. So, our success for this year is dependent on coaching, not recruiting (yes, recruiting is an aspect of college coaching, but you know what I mean).

What we see on the field THIS year, will tell us a lot about what we can expect in the years to come, imo. Only after we see that will we be able to tell how apt the comparisons to Butch really are.
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Im just ready for whatever is to come... Ive personally beaten this forum to death lol
 
okiemon

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GTRambler said:
Here’s Butch Jones’s record as head coach at Tennessee, for what it’s worth (if any):

2013-2017 (5 years)

2013: 5-7 (2-6 SEC)
2014: 7-6 (3-5 SEC)
2015: 9-4 (5-3 SEC)
2016: 9-4 (4-4 SEC)
2017: 4-6 (0-6 SEC)

TOTAL: 34-27 (14-24 SEC)
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This will probably be said elsewhere in this thread, but I don't have the time right now to read through it all. But Bradley clearly did not say he was comparing on-field results to Butch Jones (and I'm not implying that you are either, @GTRambler). He was just talking about the positive talk from Jones when he first took the job, similar to CGC. The problem is Jones did not follow the talk with results. It's our expectation that CGC will do that.
 
UpperNorth

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LargeFO said:
Butch Jones had no clue how to recruit the southeast. It’s an extremely flawed comparison beyond both guys have energy.
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okiemon said:
This will probably be said elsewhere in this thread, but I don't have the time right now to read through it all. But Bradley clearly did not say he was comparing on-field results to Butch Jones (and I'm not implying that you are either, @GTRambler). He was just talking about the positive talk from Jones when he first took the job, similar to CGC. The problem is Jones did not follow the talk with results. It's our expectation that CGC will do that.
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I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that Geoff Collins is, and will prove to be, about a million times cooler than Butch Jones. That guy lacked the IT factor like no other. Either his recruits were highly overrated or he lacked what it took to motivate. Again, it’s speculation that CGC will outperform him, but I like his chances to evaluate and sign talent better and motivate results better.
 
iceeater1969

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AE 87 said:
Weirdest, Longest, off-season

Our new head-coach has never led a power 5 team. Neither our Defensive Coordinator nor our Offensive Coordinator has coordinated a squad of a power 5 team.

We're entering into 2019 with a team almost entirely recruited by CPJ people. So, our success for this year is dependent on coaching, not recruiting (yes, recruiting is an aspect of college coaching, but you know what I mean).

What we see on the field THIS year, will tell us a lot about what we can expect in the years to come, imo. Only after we see that will we be able to tell how apt the comparisons to Butch really are.
Click to expand...
Agree that Tstan was not ready when coach suddenly decided to retire/quit..

Maybe we are getting some suzpension or forgiveness on or 12,000,000 per year interest only payment. ( Not un common in business to help the major debtor avoid default).

Hope cgc can get fans in the stands.
 
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