CFP Discussion

[GTNavyNuke]

Am I wrong? Last night felt like a regular, degular old game. The announcers didn't help, sounded kinda bored since no-ess-ee-see.

Glad I missed it. Watched "Welcome to Wrexham" to watch real futbol. I really like the leagues where teams are promoted and relegated based on performance every year. I think performance based is better than advertising $ based.

 

[Root4GT]

No. His point was a 9-3 SEC team that wasn’t in their league championship game was already ranked higher than a 10-2 ACC team in the ACCCG. That’s exactly the point. They already elevated an SEC also-ran over a team that could have been the ACC champion. It was a valid point.

No one’s getting butt-hurt, but you seem to keep ignoring the facts as if they’re not relevant, when they are.

So at that point Louisville had lost to Pit (3-9) a very bad team and UK (7-5). LSU was 9-3 with Losses to FSU (#5), Alabama (#4) and Ole Miss (#11).

It's pretty easy to make a case that at that point LSU was a better team based on wins and losses. Of course Louisville had a chance in the ACC Championship game but they lost to a compromised FSU so they ended up 10-3.

This whole woe is me ACC argument is silly. This board all year said Louisville was not very good and GT should have beaten them. don't lose games to 3-9 or 7-5 teams if you want to be highly rated at season' end.

Do you honestly think ranking LSU over Louisville would have been a big deal based on their losses? Of course LSU would not have made the CFP either so what exactly is the point?

Then the poster went on to say the best way to get teams in is to have 2 teams in the same division have good records and the team not in the Championship game would get in. As I pointed out no P4 Conferences will have Divisions next year so his point was pointless. The top 2 teams in the Conference will play for the Conference Championship.

And yes many on this board are butt hurt that the SEC is a better football Conference than the ACC! It is impossible to make a case the ACC is a better football conference than the SEC!

Next year the ACC has some opportunities to make statements against the SEC:
31 August: Miami at Florida / Clemson vs Georgia (Atlanta) / ND at Texas A&M / VT at Vanderbilt
7 September: Cal at Auburn / Tenn vs NCST (Charlette)
14 September: Ole Miss at Wake / BC at Missouri
30 November: Florida at FSU / GT at Georgia / Louisville at Kentucky / USC_E at Clemson

Clemson needs to beat UGA. NCST needs to beat Tenn, FSU needs to beat Fla, Miami needs to beat Fla and Louisville needs to beat Kentucky. Win those games and the ACC gets some respect. Bonus would be BC over Missouri

 

[stinger78]

Glad I missed it. Watched "Welcome to Wrexham" to watch real futbol. I really like the leagues where teams are promoted and relegated based on performance every year. I think performance based is better than advertising $ based.

Can I get an Amen!?

 

[Root4GT]

Can I get an Amen!?

Welcome to Wrexham is a great show! Relegation/promotion works in European soccer in that teams play 45 or so games. That is more than College BB teams play. Should College BB teams be relegated/promoted? Of course not. Doing that on 12 football games is silly when there are 130 FBS teams.

This year the SEC has mandated that all their teams play a minimum of of one game against a team from one of the other P4 conferences. Texas and OU are going to make wining the SEC harder for Georgia and Alabama. That is a step in the right direction. With the 4 former PAC 12 teams going to the B1G that Conference will have more competitive games, No longer just OSU, Mich and PSU. USC, Oregon and Washington are all capable of wining the B1G.

 

[CEB]

Absolutely. They certainly would not have lost by 3 touchdowns.

So, how to compare? Washington, to be fair, had an off night for several reasons. Their star running back was limping through the whole game. Their QB missed two open touchdown passes earlier in the game. By later in the game he was too banged up to be of any use. Off night for the whole offense.

FSU’s second string QB would not have played any worse and a different type of offense might have done better against Michigan. FSU’s defense would have made Michigan work a lot harder to score and could have kept the game close.

I’m noticing that it’s not uncommon for a team to have a bad game during the playoffs and, potentially, an almost perfect game. Michigan’s bad game was against Alabama where they tried multiple different ways to give the game away but still had the horses to win. Their game against Washington had view mistakes and was executed close to perfection.

This tells me two things. A team with a strong defense is more likely to survive a playoff, especially a 12 team playoff where everyone is subject to one off night or bad game. This year’s FSU team was built for such a playoff.

I’m gonna disagree.

Its acceptable to state that FSU should’ve gotten their shot regardless of how they would’ve performed. They didn’t have to “keep it close” to warrant being there, and neither did Washington (or TCU last year).

Michigan would’ve beaten whatever team FSU put out there at least as badly as they beat Washington…. Likely worse. Michigan dominated both LOS all night. Michigan defensive front four just decimated Washington and would’ve done the same to FSU. Penix is super experienced and great avoiding the rush and he couldn’t move without grimacing in the 4th quarter. I don’t think FSU OL did as good a job protecting QBs as Washington either. I am quite confident that FSU would not have had enough QBs to finish that game. FSU O certainly wouldn’t put up 13.

As for FSUs D, it think it would fare about as well as Washington’s. Maybe FSU is better out of the gate and doesn’t dig a 17-3 hole but Michigan still runs all over them down the stretch.

The spread would still be 21-ish, but it would be more like 24-3

 

[57jacket]

Entertaining game between 2 good teams.
Would you like to have Mich.'s DL?
QB that throws side arm? I have never seen that. Looked like a baseball pitcher.

 

[Root4GT]

I’m gonna disagree.

Its acceptable to state that FSU should’ve gotten their shot regardless of how they would’ve performed. They didn’t have to “keep it close” to warrant being there, and neither did Washington (or TCU last year).

Michigan would’ve beaten whatever team FSU put out there at least as badly as they beat Washington…. Likely worse. Michigan dominated both LOS all night. Michigan defensive front four just decimated Washington and would’ve done the same to FSU. Penix is super experienced and great avoiding the rush and he couldn’t move without grimacing in the 4th quarter. I don’t think FSU OL did as good a job protecting QBs as Washington either. I am quite confident that FSU would not have had enough QBs to finish that game. FSU O certainly wouldn’t put up 13.

As for FSUs D, it think it would fare about as well as Washington’s. Maybe FSU is better out of the gate and doesn’t dig a 17-3 hole but Michigan still runs all over them down the stretch.

The spread would still be 21-ish, but it would be more like 24-3

Interestingly Washington's Oline was voted the best Oline in college football this year with Michigan;s as the #2 OL. Michigan DL simply destroyed Washington's OL. That was a surprise for sure. Penix was under immense pressure all night.

 

[CEB]

Entertaining game between 2 good teams.
Would you like to have Mich.'s DL?
QB that throws side arm? I have never seen that. Looked like a baseball pitcher.

Penix changes his delivery angle a lot. He’s good at seeing lanes and particularly on screens to the left side he drops sidearm frequently to keep the ball behind pass rushers.
I was surprised by how much pressure Michigan got on him without really blitzing to do it. YES; I would LOVE to have Michigan's DL!*

*Disclaimer; I know nothing about any of those guys personally and I don’t care to find out that they are criminals or worse yet, bad students and/or yankees. My reply simply conveys that I would like to have a DL of the CALIBER of Michigan’s.

 

[stinger78]

Welcome to Wrexham is a great show! Relegation/promotion works in European soccer in that teams play 45 or so games. That is more than College BB teams play. Should College BB teams be relegated/promoted? Of course not. Doing that on 12 football games is silly when there are 130 FBS teams.

This year the SEC has mandated that all their teams play a minimum of of one game against a team from one of the other P4 conferences. Texas and OU are going to make wining the SEC harder for Georgia and Alabama. That is a step in the right direction. With the 4 former PAC 12 teams going to the B1G that Conference will have more competitive games, No longer just OSU, Mich and PSU. USC, Oregon and Washington are all capable of wining the B1G.

Why harder? Conf champs don’t matter anymore. The SECheat will
Have a minimum of 4 teams in the “CFP.” Save this post, mark it down, whatever.

 

[iceeater1969]

Glad I missed it. Watched "Welcome to Wrexham" to watch real futbol. I really like the leagues where teams are promoted and relegated based on performance every year. I think performance based is better than advertising $ based.

My pastor is a super bama fan. He posted that he really enjoyed watching the cooking channel.

The game was boring due to ol for washinton being out schemed and over matched.

Michigan played the Clemson defense - dl pressure, man defense on perimiter, and contest intermediate routes. The pressure made RT -73 have a terrible game against fast DE. The DT 98 for washington had zero foot speed and often guessed wrong.

I am trying to imagine how bad this would look in a soccer match. Lots of WTF

 

[Root4GT]

Why harder? Conf champs don’t matter anymore. The SECheat will
Have a minimum of 4 teams in the “CFP.” Save this post, mark it down, whatever.

They likely will deserve 4 teams in the CFP. So what! If the ACC wins the big games against the SEC and has 4 teams with 10+ wins they could get 4 teams in the CFP. Of course the ACC rarely gets 2 teams with 10+ wins. Win more games against top competition! Or heck since you like G5 teams just beat them.

 

[bobongo]

Interestingly Washington's Oline was voted the best Oline in college football this year with Michigan;s as the #2 OL. Michigan DL simply destroyed Washington's OL. That was a surprise for sure. Penix was under immense pressure all night.

Washington's right tackle, number 73, committed two crucial penalties when the Huskies still had a chance. The first wiped out a long pass completion and the second was on a fourth-down play that would have resulted in a first down on a PI penalty against Michigan had it not occurred. Those two penalties were killers, but of course were committed because the right tackle got beat by Michigan's DL.

 

[stinger78]

They likely will deserve 4 teams in the CFP. So what! If the ACC wins the big games against the SEC and has 4 teams with 10+ wins they could get 4 teams in the CFP. Of course the ACC rarely gets 2 teams with 10+ wins. Win more games against top competition! Or heck since you like G5 teams just beat them.

More weak sauce. I must say, you’re not disappointing this AM.

The undefeated ACC champ was just excluded. Do you recall that?

 

[Root4GT]

More weak sauce. I must say, you’re not disappointing this AM.

The undefeated ACC champ was just excluded. Do you recall that?

2023 G5 Conference Champions:

American Athletic Conference: SMU – lost to P5 teams – Oklahoma (28-11), TCU (34-17) and BC (23-14) bowl game. No P5 wins

CUSA: Liberty – no regular season games against P5 teams lost to Oregon their Bowl Game 45-6

MAC: Miami of Ohio – lost to Miami (38-3), lost to Cincy (31-24) – no P5 wins

Mountain West: Lost to Washington (56-19), lost to UCF (18-16), UCLA (35-22) Bowl Game

Sun Belt: JMU – they beat UVA (36-35)

Summary: G5 Conference Champions were 1-9 against P5 teams. Yea lets put these losers in the CFP! Back to your Lost Causes - at least come up with some reason this makes sense than you personally think's it's fair!

 

[stinger78]

2023 G5 Conference Champions:

American Athletic Conference: SMU – lost to P5 teams – Oklahoma (28-11), TCU (34-17) and BC (23-14) bowl game. No P5 wins

CUSA: Liberty – no regular season games against P5 teams lost to Oregon their Bowl Game 45-6

MAC: Miami of Ohio – lost to Miami (38-3), lost to Cincy (31-24) – no P5 wins

Mountain West: Lost to Washington (56-19), lost to UCF (18-16), UCLA (35-22) Bowl Game

Sun Belt: JMU – they beat UVA (36-35)

Summary: G5 Conference Champions were 1-9 against P5 teams. Yea lets put these losers in the CFP! Back to your Lost Causes - at least come up with some reason this makes sense than you personally think's it's fair!

LOL. You seem to forget that I’ve actually advocated for two separate 8-team playoffs. I don’t think the best solution is to pack a bunch of G5 teams into a playoff with a bunch of P4/5 teams. To the contrary, I think the better solution is for those teams, rather than to be told to sit down, shut up, and like the few shekels we toss your way, should be able to play for a championship that represents them.

 

[CEB]

Washington's right tackle, number 73, committed two crucial penalties when the Huskies still had a chance. The first wiped out a long pass completion and the second was on a fourth-down play that would have resulted in a first down on a PI penalty against Michigan had it not occurred. Those two penalties were killers, but of course were committed because the right tackle got beat by Michigan's DL.

I thought the second one that was “offsetting” on 4th down was pretty a BS call. Especially given how the rest of the came was officiated.
… but I’d expect nothing less from an ACC crew.

 

[stinger78]

I thought the second one that was “offsetting” on 4th down was pretty a BS call. Especially given how the rest of the came was officiated.
… but I’d expect nothing less from an ACC crew.

Oh geez! Was it an ACC crew? How embarrassing. Please tell me it wasn’t Jeff Flanagan.

 

[Root4GT]

LOL. You seem to forget that I’ve actually advocated for two separate 8-team playoffs. I don’t think the best solution is to pack a bunch of G5 teams into a playoff with a bunch of P4/5 teams. To the contrary, I think the better solution is for those teams, rather than to be told to sit down, shut up, and like the few shekels we toss your way, should be able to play for a championship that represents them.

That I am ok with a separate G5 playoff though I am not sure the G5s would be.

Several posters think the G5 Champs should get auto “bids” to the CFP. G5 teams are not on the level of the top P5 teams. This year the top G5 teams were lousy against all the P5 teams they played against.

I still like to 12 team format better than 8 but 8 is fine.

Your format would likely do away with a number of Bowl Gsmes and teams like this year’s GT team would possibly not be in a bowl game. The unintended consequences would need a deeper look than I care to do.

My point all along has been only 1 auto bid for G5 in the 12 team CFP.

As for who the other teams are, P5 champs auto bid and home 1st game seeded1-4. As for the 7 teams left (G5) got Bid #5, there is no perfect way. Some group of humans with input from computer models will have to make those decisions.

Do you think the G5 teams would actually want their own playoff? I am not sure they would want that. That would formally stratify them as “lesser” teams with no chance.

Interesting idea though.

 

[stinger78]

That I am ok with a separate G5 playoff though I am not sure the G5s would be.

Several posters think the G5 Champs should get auto “bids” to the CFP. G5 teams are not on the level of the top P5 teams. This year the top G5 teams were lousy against all the P5 teams they played against.

I still like to 12 team format better than 8 but 8 is fine.

Your format would likely do away with a number of Bowl Gsmes and teams like this year’s GT team would possibly not be in a bowl game. The unintended consequences would need a deeper look than I care to do.

My point all along has been only 1 auto bid for G5 in the 12 team CFP.

As for who the other teams are, P5 champs auto bid and home 1st game seeded1-4. As for the 7 teams left (G5) got Bid #5, there is no perfect way. Some group of humans with input from computer models will have to make those decisions.

Do you think the G5 teams would actually want their own playoff? I am not sure they would want that. That would formally stratify them as “lesser” teams with no chance.

Interesting idea though.

Have they been asked? Maybe they determine their champ by having the top 2 play it off for a slot in the CFP. I dunno. Anything is better than being told to shut up, sit down, and like it though.

 

[forensicbuzz]

So at that point Louisville had lost to Pit (3-9) a very bad team and UK (7-5). LSU was 9-3 with Losses to FSU (#5), Alabama (#4) and Ole Miss (#11).

It's pretty easy to make a case that at that point LSU was a better team based on wins and losses. Of course Louisville had a chance in the ACC Championship game but they lost to a compromised FSU so they ended up 10-3.

This whole woe is me ACC argument is silly. This board all year said Louisville was not very good and GT should have beaten them. don't lose games to 3-9 or 7-5 teams if you want to be highly rated at season' end.

Do you honestly think ranking LSU over Louisville would have been a big deal based on their losses? Of course LSU would not have made the CFP either so what exactly is the point?

Then the poster went on to say the best way to get teams in is to have 2 teams in the same division have good records and the team not in the Championship game would get in. As I pointed out no P4 Conferences will have Divisions next year so his point was pointless. The top 2 teams in the Conference will play for the Conference Championship.

And yes many on this board are butt hurt that the SEC is a better football Conference than the ACC! It is impossible to make a case the ACC is a better football conference than the SEC!

Next year the ACC has some opportunities to make statements against the SEC:
31 August: Miami at Florida / Clemson vs Georgia (Atlanta) / ND at Texas A&M / VT at Vanderbilt
7 September: Cal at Auburn / Tenn vs NCST (Charlette)
14 September: Ole Miss at Wake / BC at Missouri
30 November: Florida at FSU / GT at Georgia / Louisville at Kentucky / USC_E at Clemson

Clemson needs to beat UGA. NCST needs to beat Tenn, FSU needs to beat Fla, Miami needs to beat Fla and Louisville needs to beat Kentucky. Win those games and the ACC gets some respect. Bonus would be BC over Missouri

I don't have a problem with this logic, but that's not the argument that was put forward. You pointed out the losses, but what about good wins? I haven't looked at their schedules, so I don't have an opinion. Hard to knock a 10-win team though, regardless of who the losses were to. No, I don't think Louisville was that good, but they were as good as LSU in my opinion. SEC wasn't that great this year. Their best OOC win was Kentucky over Louisville. (unless you count bowls, which I can't really wrap my head around whether they mean anything or not).

If we would have had a 12-team playoff this year, who would have been in the playoff? Would that have been based on performance on the field or a popularity contest? I don't know.