CFP Discussion

[Northeast Stinger]

This is exactly my issue. When B1G champ OSU was left out in 2017, who benefited? Non-division winner Alabama and the SEC (with two of four entries). When undefeated conference champ FSU is left out in 2023, who benefited? Alabama and the SEC. I’m tired of the SEC bias.

In the new 12-team setup give all conference champs an auto bid and then build an unbiased computer algorithm to select at-large teams. Take it out of the hands of the humans who are bought and sold to the highest bidder. Then let the computer algorithm seed them. No more this team “would do this or that,” and no more “this team is really better.”

Yes!

The original models for an expanded playoff years ago had conference champions getting the byes. Make conference championships important. Additional teams added without byes would be based on won-loss records not poll rankings or subjective arguments over which conference was stronger. If a good team is left out, which would happen far less with this approach, that team just gets motivated to have a better record next time but accepts the transparency of the rules.

 

[Jacket05]

the fix next year will be which top 4 teams get byes and teams 5 thru 8 which get home games in the first round. The conversion will change from which teams get in to how to arrange the bracket to make sure the RIGHT TEAMS have the advantages.

Agreed it will still be drastically flawed until they define clear and fair rules as to who gets seeded where (like how conference championship teams are determined). However in the end of you go undefeated through the season and playoffs you will be the champion. Therefore you as a team control your destiny. Will the "best team" win every year? Probably not, but they don't in college basketball either and few complain about that because everyone has a fair shot from the start of the season.

 

[bobongo]

But in FSU’s case it completes an undefeated season which gives them a claim to the now, again MNC.

There's a silver lining in all this, because I believe it will lead to the pups suffering their second straight defeat.

 

[gte447f]

Growing up in the South it was a point of pride when we finally started to win games regularly against the northern schools. Anyone who doesn’t recognize the natural inferiority complex in many southerners going back to the civil war has skipped reading a lot of history. Even Bear Bryant saw Alabama’s first matchup with Notre Dame as a chance to strike a blow for southern legitimacy. Some of that attitude evolved into today’s SEC chauvinism.

I think you’re on to something here. I know many mutt fans, some of them are family members ( my in-laws), who seem to have a much more visceral resentment and dislike, almost hatred, for northern teams like Michigan, Ohio State, and Notre Dame, than they do for any of their southern opponents or rivals. Among their southern opponents or rivals, their level of dislike is directly proportional to the perceived level of quality or status of the opponent. For example, they would be less bothered by a loss to KY or Vandy or GT than a loss to bama, because they can hand wave away such losses as a fluke that doesn’t really threaten their self image of superiority.

 

[Root4GT]

This is exactly my issue. When B1G champ OSU was left out in 2017, who benefited? Non-division winner Alabama and the SEC (with two of four entries, seeded in opposite brackets no less). When undefeated conference champ FSU is left out in 2023, who benefited? Alabama and the SEC. I’m tired of the SEC bias.

In the new 12-team setup give all conference champs an auto bid and then build an unbiased computer algorithm to select at-large teams. Take it out of the hands of the humans who are bought and sold to the highest bidder. Then let the computer algorithm seed them. No more this team “would do this or that,” and no more “this team is really better.”

Back to the unbiased algorithm made by a human. Maybe AI should just pick 4 teams at random.

Bias will always exist. Bias clearly favors the SEC currently. That likely won’t change as long as ESPN owns the CFP.

Now if Fox gets part of the CFP going forward with the 12 team playoff the B1G will have equal bias.

If we had the 12 team playoff this year based on next year’s conferences realigned have the ACC & Big 12 Champs plus 5 SEC and 5 B1G teams.

That is likely not far off of what we will see in the future.

 

[stinger78]

Back to the unbiased algorithm made by a human. Maybe AI should just pick 4 teams at random.

Bias will always exist. Bias clearly favors the SEC currently. That likely won’t change as long as ESPN owns the CFP.

Now if Fox gets part of the CFP going forward with the 12 team playoff the B1G will have equal bias.

If we had the 12 team playoff this year based on next year’s conferences realigned have the ACC & Big 12 Champs plus 5 SEC and 5 B1G teams.

That is likely not far off of what we will see in the future.

Yes, but you can control for bias in objective metrics. It may be to remove the SOS component or mitigate it down so that the *perceptions* of SECheat teams doesn't unfairly impact the result. The unintended consequence of that might be that teams can play weaker OOC schedules. The SECheat already does this, so might the rest. The truth will be when a team that's puffed itself up with a weaker schedule faces an actual good team in the playoffs. That will sort itself out on the field.

See, this is my observation: Committees and administrators constantly have the urge to fix things - it's a function of the human condition that seeks control, IMPO. We don't really need that if our focus is to get to a champion. It should be understood that certain factors will arise that allow what we consider to be a bit lesser team and that we don't have to fix that. Those things will get fixed on the field of play, as they should. Example: FSU 2023. The problem is, as we discussed ad nauseum yesterday, that the goal of the committee is not a true championship won by conference champions on the field, it is to have the best TV ratings leading to the most money ($$$) that can possibly be manipulated out. Money is the driver, not a championship won on the field. That is purely incidental.

So, you put together an algorithm, mitigate the bias as best you can, let everyone know how this is being determined so everyone is informed and there are no back room deals, and let the programs have at it. The thing cranks out what it cranks out and you have your playoff where "lesser teams" often win.

Didn't any of you guys watch Hoosiers?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I think you’re on to something here. I know many mutt fans, some of them are family members ( my in-laws), who seem to have a much more visceral resentment and dislike, almost hatred, for northern teams like Michigan, Ohio State, and Notre Dame, than they do for any of their southern opponents or rivals. Among their southern opponents or rivals, their level of dislike is directly proportional to the perceived level of quality or status of the opponent. For example, they would be less bothered by a loss to KY or Vandy or GT than a loss to bama, because they can hand wave away such losses as a fluke that doesn’t really threaten their self image of superiority.

This is true because when the southern teams pulled even with the northern teams the media (AP, Scripps, and other polls) continued to vote for the northern schools. This artificially kept the southern teams down for an additional 20plus years. Eventually, the southern teams (post integration) simply began dominating to the point even the corrupt polls couldn’t overcome. And ever since the northern schools have just been beaten down to the point they lost hope and their fanbases no longer care.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Good thoughts except any NFL game still gets more viewers than nearly every college football game by a large margin. The NFL now owns Saturday as well.

True but it’s different fanbases so it’s not the same money. The Falcons fanbase is a lot different from GT and UGA. The money is still there even if other sports attract fans. You could have the Masters, the Daytona 500, an NFL game, an NBA game, and a college football playoff game all on the same day and the money would flow.

 

[TooTall]

Back to the unbiased algorithm made by a human. Maybe AI should just pick 4 teams at random.

Bias will always exist. Bias clearly favors the SEC currently. That likely won’t change as long as ESPN owns the CFP.

Now if Fox gets part of the CFP going forward with the 12 team playoff the B1G will have equal bias.

If we had the 12 team playoff this year based on next year’s conferences realigned have the ACC & Big 12 Champs plus 5 SEC and 5 B1G teams.

That is likely not far off of what we will see in the future.

So when will the CW get a stake in the CFP and earn the ACC some biased points?

 

[WreckinGT]

Back to the unbiased algorithm made by a human. Maybe AI should just pick 4 teams at random.

Bias will always exist. Bias clearly favors the SEC currently. That likely won’t change as long as ESPN owns the CFP.

Now if Fox gets part of the CFP going forward with the 12 team playoff the B1G will have equal bias.

If we had the 12 team playoff this year based on next year’s conferences realigned have the ACC & Big 12 Champs plus 5 SEC and 5 B1G teams.

That is likely not far off of what we will see in the future.

This would be pointless. Why would any recruit or transfer go to the ACC or Big 12 unless they had no P2 options? This would effectively kill those conferences. Why would they even agree to be a part of it? The ACC and B12, along with the G5 conferences should refuse to be a part of the playoff if there are no limits placed on conference members. A conference with 5 teams in would be utterly stupid.

 

[gte447f]

This is true because when the southern teams pulled even with the northern teams the media (AP, Scripps, and other polls) continued to vote for the northern schools. This artificially kept the southern teams down for an additional 20plus years. Eventually, the southern teams (post integration) simply began dominating to the point even the corrupt polls couldn’t overcome. And ever since the northern schools have just been beaten down to the point they lost hope and their fanbases no longer care.

I don’t agree with your last sentence. This is exactly what all the SEC front runner fans say to pump themselves up, but the reality is that the size and fervor of Michigan and Ohio State fanbases rivals or surpasses u(sic)ga and Alabama. Your last sentence sounds like the southern, butt hurt, little brother syndrome propaganda that I hear from mutt fans.

P.s. I’m a dyed in the wool southerner myself.

 

[Root4GT]

This would be pointless. Why would any recruit or transfer go to the ACC or Big 12 unless they had no P2 options? This would effectively kill those conferences. Why would they even agree to be a part of it? The ACC and B12, along with the G5 conferences should refuse to be a part of the playoff if there are no limits placed on conference members. A conference with 5 teams in would be utterly stupid.

What do you think will happen next year when the CFP goes to 12 teams? It likely will look similar to this years Top 12 with a G5 team tossed in to make it look more reasonable.

 

[stingerman]

This would be pointless. Why would any recruit or transfer go to the ACC or Big 12 unless they had no P2 options? This would effectively kill those conferences. Why would they even agree to be a part of it? The ACC and B12, along with the G5 conferences should refuse to be a part of the playoff if there are no limits placed on conference members. A conference with 5 teams in would be utterly stupid.

A conference with 5 teams also devalues the regular season. An LSU win or loss to Alabama is irrelevant. Both will have their playoff slot regardless of outcome. Remember when they used to tell us that every week is a playoff game in college football? Not true. A well-designed playoff would make a conference championship the primary path to entry. I'm okay with a few wild cards, but the last few weeks of the regular season become very compelling when most games could have an impact on final conference standings. The pro leagues have this figured out. Maybe the TV execs driving this train will eventually figure it out for NCAAF.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

So you’re saying that our 2014 team would have won the natty because who can prepare in a week to take on that offense? Is it too late to get t-shirts made?

I definitely believe if we had a playoff in 2014 that we would have had as a good a chance as any team in a 12 or 24 team format. Johnson made his career winning college football playoffs and we were playing our highest level of football at that time since 1990. I’m not saying we would have but that’s what makes playoff special - you have a chance.

 

[WreckinGT]

What do you think will happen next year when the CFP goes to 12 teams? It likely will look similar to this years Top 12 with a G5 team tossed in to make it look more reasonable.

I think you are right, I just don't understand why the ACC and Big 12 would ever accept this when the vast majority of years, they won't have any chance of getting more than one team in while the SEC/Big10 get 9 in. You can't pretend to be competitive with that kind of system. You would be better off not being a part of it.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I don’t agree with your last sentence. This is exactly what all the SEC front runner fans say to pump themselves up, but the reality is that the size and fervor of Michigan and Ohio State fanbases rivals or surpasses u(sic)ga and Alabama. Your last sentence sounds like the southern, butt hurt, little brother syndrome propaganda that I hear from mutt fans.

P.s. I’m a dyed in the wool southerner myself.

I’m not talking about Michigan or Ohio State or ND. Those are the 3 northern schools who survived. I’m talking about all those teams who have fallen off when the southern teams rose. Illinois, Rutgers, BC, Syracuse, Minnesota, Maryland, Iowa, etc. Heck, GT is a victim of it. We fell off the map after integration and the powerhouse southern teams arose.

I have zero emotion in most things other than GT. But outside of Columbus, Ann Arbor, and South Bend the north is dead regarding college football. My family is from central PA so I have a ton of Penn State and Pitt cousins, Uncles, Aunts, etc. None of them follow the sport like they did in the 80’s because, like GT, they can’t truly compete on this unlevel field of money and that players don’t go north.

 

[ThatGuy]

Yeah, the problem is whoever wins will prove nothing because either team can claim they weren’t motivated having been cheated out of the playoffs.

Right - but that sort of thing is only "true" for the SEC and B1G teams.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Right - but that sort of thing is only "true" for the SEC and B1G teams.

What! There’s a double standard in how the media treats teams based on conference?

 

[slugboy]

DeSantis is asking the Florida Legislature to fund a lawsuit.

DeSantis pledges $1 million for any FSU football lawsuit after snub

Florida will “put aside $1 million and let the chips fall where they may on that” after the Seminoles aren’t one of the four College Football Playoff teams.

www.tampabay.com

 

[ThatGuy]

What! There’s a double standard in how the media treats teams based on conference?