Bobinski Q&A

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
I don't remember it that way northeast. Mbob had plenty of opportunities to voice his support of CPJ before the season started, into it, and up until the extension. He by and large refrained from voicing that support. I don't know CPJ. I don't know anyone who does know CPJ. But I know a lot of reasonable people. Most reasonable people wouldn't have many reasons to appreciate Mbobs lack of public support throughout.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
Fwiw, I have no doubt that CPJ said wtte of "Well, you can buy me out" as reported. However, I don't think it was an expression of his discontent with GT or a desire to leave, as reported, but a reaction to someone expressing discontent with results. That comment did not come out of the blue.

We also heard about the same time MBob downplaying the impact of coach's contract on recruiting. The idea that CPJ was happy in winter 2014 without a renewal seems odd to me.

MBob also gave an extension with a reset of the buyout to CBG in early 2014. Then, he waited to announce CBG was coming back until after this past season. Our team did nothing special at the end. If you're going to keep the guy for financial reasons, then why not express support sooner?
 
Messages
13,443
Location
Augusta, GA
Yeah, so here's the deal. It LOOKED like CPJ was being left on the hot seat far too long and I was not happy about it in real time. However, with what little news we got, and what we found out after the fact, it sounded like CPJ and MBob came to an understanding behind closed doors long before the the final deal was concluded in public. In retrospect not so sure the hot seat stuff was much more than a media creation fueled by a small sub group of Tech fans. I know the narrative of hot seat got repeated, and is still repeated, by the national media but maybe MBob never saw it that way and was just being deliberate and careful in making sure the contract was as good as he could get it all along.

Just offering an alternative explanation based on the same general lack of knowledge about what actually happened behind closed doors.
Fair enough
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,178
For what is is worth, I am willing to revisit my discontent at the time when MBob and CPJ were in contract negotiations. I certainly did not like it as it was happening and I continue to be a little defensive for CPJ because Tech has a long history of not always treating coaches well and we currently have, in my opinion, one of Tech's top four or five coaches of all time. And it would not be hard for me to slip over into the hate MBob camp as a result.

But what gives me pause is that I never heard CPJ squawk about it afterward and everyone acted like the whole process had been on time and on point all along. Now, to be sure, it would not be in CPJ's interest to make a stink and I can think of a few reasons why he might go passive in this process and play nice. But if MBob handled this as badly as I first thought then it seems something would have leaked out by now about that. And, as I indicated, before the official deal was made public there were persistent rumors that everything was in the bag. It was about that time there was also a rumor that the final sticking point had to do with raises for the other coaches and staff.

But I have never heard anything confirmed on any aspect of how this deal went down except that no one has leaked anything untoward or bad that happened in the process. That I know of.
 

BerryGT

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
96
As far as the Gregory situation goes, there are far more factors there than I think you are considering. I'm no fan of Gregory, but I'm also no fan of paying 3 coaches when 2 are no longer employed by Tech. You can blame DRad for that as much as you can blame MBob.

I don't want to rehash it all, but you're assuming that my quibble is that we didn't fire him, when it's actually everything else.
 

BerryGT

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
96
No matter what the reason, our assistant coach salaries are near the bottom of the ACC. I know we get a break because we only have 1 coordinator, and our offensive guys are system guys with less places to go but we should do better. As we have more success, more teams come calling. We got lucky with Pelton and Oklahoma.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Thx for posting...will read it tomorrow. First Q should be....Why don't you pay your head fb coach, and his staff, more.... and place Tech at a competitive level with regards to coaching staff quality and stability? 2nd Q.....are you too much of a dufus to understand that their value to the athletic dept is greater than your value? :)

Really? You are calling mb a dufus based on that. Allow me to pose some questions to you

1. What is CPJs pay rank among head coaches

2. What is Ted Roofs pay rank among assistants

3. What is GTs home attendance rank

4. What is GTs athletic department revenue rank

5. What is GTs athletic department profit rank

6. By how much has Bobo expanded the recruiting office in the last few years


The answer to those questions more than amply answers yours
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
No matter what the reason, our assistant coach salaries are near the bottom of the ACC. I know we get a break because we only have 1 coordinator, and our offensive guys are system guys with less places to go but we should do better. As we have more success, more teams come calling. We got lucky with Pelton and Oklahoma.

Pelton has coached at a major school for a mere 8 years. That's why he's not getting more than he is. If you start by buying up the tickets for every game that aren't sold I'm sure we could pay Pelton more. Or you could just find a team with more resources to cheer for.

Complaining about Techs resources is, imo, wasted breath. We do more with less.
 

BerryGT

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
96
Pelton has coached at a major school for a mere 8 years. That's why he's not getting more than he is. If you start by buying up the tickets for every game that aren't sold I'm sure we could pay Pelton more. Or you could just find a team with more resources to cheer for.

Complaining about Techs resources is, imo, wasted breath. We do more with less.

Football coaches salaries are an investment. They have the best ROI in increasing resources for the whole athletic department. Hiring good coaches and retaining them is the #1 factor in winning. Winning consistently leads to more resources. There are many expenses that should be dictated by your current revenues but football and men's basketball staff expenses should be about where you want to get to in the future (within reason of course). While short term results will vary, over time we will become what we pay. CPJ allows us to hit above our weight class but he won't be here forever.
 

Boomergump

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,284
Whatever camp you find yourself in with regards to MBob and his handling of CPJ's contract, you have to give CPJ a ton of credit for how he handled it publicly. It was a question that was asked of him pretty often by a lot of people who were digging. Heck, it even came up on the radio show. I thought his responses were very professional and wise.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Football coaches salaries are an investment. They have the best ROI in increasing resources for the whole athletic department. Hiring good coaches and retaining them is the #1 factor in winning. Winning consistently leads to more resources. There are many expenses that should be dictated by your current revenues but football and men's basketball staff expenses should be about where you want to get to in the future (within reason of course). While short term results will vary, over time we will become what we pay. CPJ allows us to hit above our weight class but he won't be here forever.
I'm not that pessimistic, though "forever" I suppose is hyperbole. But it's probably fair to say '14 success and the rave TV performances of his offense in December would make it more likely than not another major would take a chance on the option. But at 58 or 59, to start all over again, from the ground up because of its uniqueness, kind of doubtful. But the thought that he could out to keep Tech honest.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Football coaches salaries are an investment. They have the best ROI in increasing resources for the whole athletic department. Hiring good coaches and retaining them is the #1 factor in winning. Winning consistently leads to more resources. There are many expenses that should be dictated by your current revenues but football and men's basketball staff expenses should be about where you want to get to in the future (within reason of course). While short term results will vary, over time we will become what we pay. CPJ allows us to hit above our weight class but he won't be here forever.

While that sounds nice in a vacuum, it's just not true here. We have the third or fourth longest bowl streak in the country. Currently we have the best coach we've had in 50 years (who is, by the way, very well paid compared to other coaches). And, within the last 10 or so years, we've had the best WR in the history of the sport, a host of great running backs, 4 trips to our conference championship, and a number of huge home games. Yet, even though our school is also in a city of 6 mil +, we can't sell out our relatively tiny football stadium.

Simply put, we just don't have a lot of money to go around. And we choose to pay our head coach and defensive coordinator more, comparative to their respective markets, than we do assistants. That was the complaint - that we don't pay our assistants more. My point is that we can't pay them much more while staying solvent, especially recently where we've been paying for 2 coaches in both basketball and football. It's much more important to have a great head coach than great assistant coaches - that's why they are paid so much more. And it's not like we are paying our assistants peanuts, they are getting high 100k low 200k and are around #3-400 in terms of assistants (counting coordinators). Not to mention that most of our guys are specialists for our offense and there are only a few jobs they could go to - thus showing a lower demand and corresponding lower salary.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Really? You are calling mb a dufus based on that. Allow me to pose some questions to you

1. What is CPJs pay rank among head coaches

2. What is Ted Roofs pay rank among assistants

3. What is GTs home attendance rank

4. What is GTs athletic department revenue rank

5. What is GTs athletic department profit rank

6. By how much has Bobo expanded the recruiting office in the last few years


The answer to those questions more than amply answers yours

1. CPJ is, IMO, one of the elite coaches in the country. Definitely top 20. I'd put him in the top 10. And I honestly don't think a Saban, Meyer, Spurrier, etc could have done much better than CPJ has thus far. So I'd say his pay should correspond to that.

2. Ted's pay should be whatever CPJ thinks he deserves. No one else in the program has a better understanding of Roofs value to the program. I think this is true for the entire staff. And it should be something CPJ and Mbob work closely together on. I doubt this to be the case however.

3. You really want to tie home attendance to coaching salary??? Say hello to unending mediocrity. Actually this would make mediocre tough to achieve. There are other streams of revenue to utilize. That's a simple and clear fact.

4 & 5. I don't expect Mbob to fart out money to pay coaches. Mbob is being very well compensated himself, to manage 4 and 5 though.

6. I've already given him a kudo for this. But it honestly was a no brainer. We were probably at about the level of Rice. Which was inexcusable. So yay for Mbob. He now has us, maybe, in the middle of the pack here.

Even if the coaches are being paid the absolute most Tech can afford financially, which isn't true, it still doesn't excuse the shoddy way Mbob handled the whole "hot seat" issue.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
1. CPJ is, IMO, one of the elite coaches in the country. Definitely top 20. I'd put him in the top 10. And I honestly don't think a Saban, Meyer, Spurrier, etc could have done much better than CPJ has thus far. So I'd say his pay should correspond to that.

2. Ted's pay should be whatever CPJ thinks he deserves. No one else in the program has a better understanding of Roofs value to the program. I think this is true for the entire staff. And it should be something CPJ and Mbob work closely together on. I doubt this to be the case however.

3. You really want to tie home attendance to coaching salary??? Say hello to unending mediocrity. Actually this would make mediocre tough to achieve. There are other streams of revenue to utilize. That's a simple and clear fact.

4 & 5. I don't expect Mbob to fart out money to pay coaches. Mbob is being very well compensated himself, to manage 4 and 5 though.

6. I've already given him a kudo for this. But it honestly was a no brainer. We were probably at about the level of Rice. Which was inexcusable. So yay for Mbob. He now has us, maybe, in the middle of the pack here.

Even if the coaches are being paid the absolute most Tech can afford financially, which isn't true, it still doesn't excuse the shoddy way Mbob handled the whole "hot seat" issue.

I was responding to the point about us underpaying our assistant coaches.

1. This is precisely my point. Paul Johnson last year was fourth behind only Fisher, Dabo, and Petrino in terms of school salary ($2.588 mil I believe, although if you count "other pay" he falls slightly behind Beamer). This year I believe he will make around $3.02 mil (average yearly salary under his new contract), which would put him in the top 25 nationally and top 3 in the conference, jumping Petrino. We chose to pay Paul well, because he is the most important cog, which probably prevents us from paying the assistants more than we otherwise would with a cheaper HC.

2. Roof made $623 last year, good for 30th in the country (which is really more like 15th seeing as there are coordinators on both sides of the ball, e.g. LSU, Clemson, and Bama each had both assistants ranked higher in terms of pay last year). Roof, for example, made more than Mike Bobo last year. Again, the point being we choose to pay our coordinator relatively more than we pay the other assistant coaches.

3. Of course ticket sales factor into how much money we have to pay out coaches. We could hire a Saban type coach otherwise - just throw $15 million at someone. I'm not tying them directly together, but we can't just cut a blank check to all of our coaches when we can't afford that. It would be foolish.

Let's consider it this way. Assume the average ticket price for a football game is $40. Last year our home attendance was a total of 291,113 people. Let's take a look at how much the top programs are raking in - Ohio State was tops with 744,075 people. That's about $29.76 million in ticket revenue, compared to (my estimation of) ours at about $11,644,520. Georgia would have been about $25.97 million. In our conference, both Clemson and FSU made around $23 million.

How can we possibly keep up with other schools when they are making more than double what we are on ticket sales? Especially since, as noted above, we do try to keep up with them in head coaching and coordinator salaries. In terms of attendance, we are closer to Maryland, Utah, Rutgers, Minnesota, and East Carolina than we are to major programs.

We have 8 assistant coaches. Say Ohio State has the same number of coaches and sets aside an additional $1 million (of the $18 million more than us it makes in ticket sales). They would, on average, have $125k more to pay each assistant. And I'm sure they set aside more than that to pay their assistants, since that is still a small fraction of their ticket revenue.

Simply put - we can't pay our coaches with money we don't have. Since other schools have that money, they don't have the same problem as us.

4. We are 47th in athletic department revenue at $68 million. Right in front of Iowa State. That's LAST in reporting schools (Duke, for example, doesn't have to publish its revenues since it is a private school). Again, let's compare. Oregon had a revenue of $196 million. Texas, $161. In conference, FSU had $104.8 million in revenue. North Carolina had $83.8. Again, its pretty tough to be competitive in coaching salary when the other schools have more money than us. We can say things like "well coaching is an investment, so we should pay them a lot," but the truth is that other schools don't feel differently than us, and can (and do) pay more than we can afford.

5. Without subsidies from the school, the athletic department LOST $9 million last year. That puts us 105th in profits, behind Morehead State and Cal State-Fullerton, just ahead of North Carolina A&T and Louisiana Tech.

On the other hand, Ohio State MADE $23.6 million. Bama? $21.4 million. Without subsidies, schools like FSU, Clemson, and UGA are much closer to breaking even than we are (and, of course, that is counting the greater expense presented by their assistant coaches). Again, we can't pay our coaches more with money we don't have.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Legal...I agree funds aren't unlimited. You are comparing some apples and oranges though. Heck, I don't think the stadium at Oregon is much bigger than Bobby Dodd. Ticket revenue is a piece of a much bigger pie. TV revenue is huge.

Tech revenue is much smaller than universities like Michigan. Our expenses are also. We don't field as many teams as they do.

But put money aside. Let's say, for arguments sake, that there is just no more money available for any additional salaries. Wouldn't it then make sense, to do everything possible P.R wise, to support the current coaching staff? But Mbob didn't. He left CPJ twisting in the wind over the speculation he might get the boot with a "sub par" win loss last year. And when it became obvious we were having an above par year....he gave only a modicum of support. That is piss poor leadership unless you plan on firing the coach. If you call it shrewd business to bargain for the best deal for the school. Congratulations on saving a penny and opening the "feel free to look for greener pastures" door.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Legal...I agree funds aren't unlimited. You are comparing some apples and oranges though. Heck, I don't think the stadium at Oregon is much bigger than Bobby Dodd. Ticket revenue is a piece of a much bigger pie. TV revenue is huge.

Tech revenue is much smaller than universities like Michigan. Our expenses are also. We don't field as many teams as they do.

But put money aside. Let's say, for arguments sake, that there is just no more money available for any additional salaries. Wouldn't it then make sense, to do everything possible P.R wise, to support the current coaching staff? But Mbob didn't. He left CPJ twisting in the wind over the speculation he might get the boot with a "sub par" win loss last year. And when it became obvious we were having an above par year....he gave only a modicum of support. That is piss poor leadership unless you plan on firing the coach. If you call it shrewd business to bargain for the best deal for the school. Congratulations on saving a penny and opening the "feel free to look for greener pastures" door.
Which ever side of the debate one comes down on, and it has been a thorough and thoughtful exchange, I for one appreciate that it has been conducted with courtesy and civility. That is not the norm for most message boards, so thanks to all.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Great thing here is we can agree to disagree. And we tend to do a good job of identifying the difference between our opinions and facts. Other boards tend to confuse their opinions as facts.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Legal...I agree funds aren't unlimited. You are comparing some apples and oranges though. Heck, I don't think the stadium at Oregon is much bigger than Bobby Dodd. Ticket revenue is a piece of a much bigger pie. TV revenue is huge.

Tech revenue is much smaller than universities like Michigan. Our expenses are also. We don't field as many teams as they do.

But put money aside. Let's say, for arguments sake, that there is just no more money available for any additional salaries. Wouldn't it then make sense, to do everything possible P.R wise, to support the current coaching staff? But Mbob didn't. He left CPJ twisting in the wind over the speculation he might get the boot with a "sub par" win loss last year. And when it became obvious we were having an above par year....he gave only a modicum of support. That is piss poor leadership unless you plan on firing the coach. If you call it shrewd business to bargain for the best deal for the school. Congratulations on saving a penny and opening the "feel free to look for greener pastures" door.

Last couple of points on finances - Autzen stadium isn't very big, but their fans exceed capacity on a pretty regular basis. Look at last year - they averaged nearly 58k with a 54k person capacity. We, on the other hand, average significantly under capacity. There are a few ways of making money - selling tickets, selling eyeballs (TV/image), and selling physical stuff. Oregon is amazing at the last two, especially with Nike's support, even if they don't sell a whole lot of tickets. We aren't really good at any of those categories, mostly because our market is saturated with fans of other schools who refuse to support the city they live in. And, for big schools, TV revenue is smaller than ticket revenue, especially when factoring in the indirect benefits associated with ticket sales, like donations, parking, concessions, etc.

Sure our costs may be less than other schools, but isn't that kinda the point? Other schools can afford to spend more than we can, which drives the value of their products. Not all of the money Michigan spends is on its hockey team - I'm sure a good deal is spent on the football team, facilities, etc.

Not disagreeing that they mishandled the CPJ situation. I've loved CPJ since day one, though I recognize that 2010-2013 seasons (and our 28-25 record those years) made it tough to extend his contract. It was a tough situation all around with CPJ's contract, particularly in light of our having to pay for both Hewitt and Gailey long after they were fired. So in that sense I don't blame Mbob too much for waiting, though I agree he should have acted faster. Had we thrown up another 7 win season last year, the last five years certainly would have looked Gailey-esque and would have raised legitimate questions as to our future. Not saying we should have canned Johnson with a bad season, but I very much remember how I felt in the fourth quarter against Georgia Southern. Again, to be clear, I'm very much a Johnson supporter. I love his sense of humor. I love his offense. But there remain questions about recruiting (we seem to be picking up there) and defense (TBD).
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Mbob waiting to extend could have been a non factor altogether if he had played the PR differently. And if he had played it differently I probably would have no complaint with him. But he didn't, so I do have a big problem with him.

Packed or not....you ain't getting more than 60k inside Autzen. Know does Oregon get the max out of that 58k? With higher per ticket prices? Maybe. Probably. They have had a very high level of success lately so demand should be high.

Oregon TV revenue, like most schools outside of Notre Dame. Is dictated by ESPN contracts with affiliated conferences. TV revenue is the biggest piece of the pie by far. Both for total revenue and for head coach salary. Head Coach can get a big chunk from post game coaches shows also. Which brings me to another disadvantage at Tech.

Tech coaches will never be able to compete with other schools when it comes to football post game shows. Our piece of the media pie is what? 20%? The vast majority of sidewalk fans are butt sniffers or affiliated with out of state schools. And Tech coaches will never be able to compete when it comes to ad revenue selling F150 commercial ads or bellawood. That being the case, do you not want to level the playing field for our head coach, whoever he is, with a higher annual salary? If not you better think of some way to make them want to stay.

I don't honestly think Oregon gets huge revenue from merchandising or merchandise licensing. I may very well be wrong as I have not researched this at all. What Oregon does have is a very special relationship with the founder of Nike. There isn't much chance Tech, or any school other than Under Armour or OK St., can equal that. My understanding of Tech though is that it has always been very...selective....when it comes to licensing merchandise. Maybe this is a revenue stream that could be expanded. I dunno. Again the problem here is the relatively small number of fans we have purchasing said merchandise.


Bottom line regardless is this. If we really want to compete at an elite level, we have to spend accordingly. We will never be able to outspend the big programs. I concede that. What we can do is create other forms of incentives. Giving your head coach assurances in job security, more control of the football program (staff salaries etc) are some easy examples. Otherwise you better get damn creative. Or......assume defeat and embrace .500 seasons going forward.
 
Top