Blocking coordination

Deltajacket

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I'm curious if anyone who has played in this system, has coached this system, or has a child in this system, could shed some light on blocking coordination. How much do our AB's, OL, and WR's communicate at the line about assignments? I've seen a lot of what looks like miscommunication on busted plays about who blocks who and wondered if it's lack of experience or poor communication between these groups. Just trying to learn here, not point fingers. Thanks.
 
jeffgt14

jeffgt14

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Just following up with a question. How much is Freddie Burden to blame? I think he's a fantastic center but maybe he's terrible at calling the blocking schemes. It seems like we've always had one great leader as a lineman to call the shots every year CPJ has been here and maybe Burden just isn't capable of doing it.
 

takethepoints

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I think part of this is caused by the decision to signal in plays. When we were huddling, there was no doubt among the OLs about what play we would try to run. Now they are making blocking scheme decisions at the LOS and you can see that they are sometimes puzzled. I understand that checking plays after sending them in makes it harder for Ds to set up to blitz. I wonder if we aren't causing more confusion on our side of the field then on theirs, however.

As I keep saying, all this would be secondary if we could set the dive. We haven't done that for a whole game yet. Let's hope we can manage it Saturday.
 
jeffgt14

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FatPat said:
Guards also call out what they see- tackles communicate with the guards, Qb's also communicate with the center-
Team game- win or lose----Let's not try and isolate a name and position to walk the plank!
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I'm not pointing him out as the reason just saying that we may not have a leader on the line like a Shaq or Bedford. For some reason the line is lost every play and the only player missing between the line and QB is Shaq.
 
Boomergump

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takethepoints said:
I think part of this is caused by the decision to signal in plays. When we were huddling, there was no doubt among the OLs about what play we would try to run. Now they are making blocking scheme decisions at the LOS and you can see that they are sometimes puzzled. I understand that checking plays after sending them in makes it harder for Ds to set up to blitz. I wonder if we aren't causing more confusion on our side of the field then on theirs, however.

As I keep saying, all this would be secondary if we could set the dive. We haven't done that for a whole game yet. Let's hope we can manage it Saturday.
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I really don't know what the root cause of our problems have been in this regard and I haven't even considered the effect of calling plays from the sideline. It is an interesting thought, one that, on the surface might have some merit. I just wonder what the players think. Does it affect them at all? Is there something lost in translation?
 
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steebu

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My first inclination would be, "no".

For simplicity's sake, let's say TaQuon runs in and tells Justin, "Spread, Triple Option, Right". Will Bryan knows he needs to release to get the Mike. Errin Joe calls out "Ace" saying he's blocking the 3-technique in front of him. Will sees the DE lined up outside his right shoulder and knows he can't take an outside release, so he calls out "Lion" indicating he will take an inside release. The A-Back acknowledges the call.

Now let's say we go hurry-up and do the "Check With Me" thing. Justin gets the signal and yells out, "Jabroni Macaroni!" which is the signal for Triple Option Right.

What changes? Nothing.

Unless the call for "Rocket Sweep, Right" is "Jabroni Macaroon" and sounds too similar to the call for the triple ... I dunno. I know there was one instance (can't remember the game) where our A-Back looked super-confused and stayed in his stance the whole play ... but ...

By piecing together little bits of PJ's radio show and post-game pressers, my opinion is a bit different. I think what's happening is Errin calls "Ace" saying he's blocking the 3-technique in front of him ... but the defense is in a 50-front and there's no 3-technique ... so Will's like, "Yo, what the heck? There's no 3-tech ... who's he blocking? And the DE is lined head-up on me. Am I releasing inside or out, because I dunno where Errin's going ... did I mis-hear the play? And ... crap ... I gotta Clinton something ..."

BTW, I'm not blaming Will or Errin as these examples are clearly made up. Except the call for "Rocket Sweet, Right" really is "Jabroni Macaroon".
 
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Buzz776g

Buzz776g

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steebu said:
My first inclination would be, "no".

For simplicity's sake, let's say TaQuon runs in and tells Justin, "Spread, Triple Option, Right". Will Bryan knows he needs to release to get the Mike. Errin Joe calls out "Ace" saying he's blocking the 3-technique in front of him. Will sees the DE lined up outside his right shoulder and knows he can't take an outside release, so he calls out "Lion" indicating he will take an inside release. The A-Back acknowledges the call.

Now let's say we go hurry-up and do the "Check With Me" thing. Justin gets the signal and yells out, "Jabroni Macaroni!" which is the signal for Triple Option Right.

What changes? Nothing.

Unless the call for "Rocket Sweep, Right" is "Jabroni Macaroon" and sounds too similar to the call for the triple ... I dunno. I know there was one instance (can't remember the game) where our A-Back looked super-confused and stayed in his stance the whole play ... but ...

By piecing together little bits of PJ's radio show and post-game pressers, my opinion is a bit different. I think what's happening is Errin calls "Ace" saying he's blocking the 3-technique in front of him ... but the defense is in a 50-front and there's no 3-technique ... so Will's like, "Yo, what the heck? There's no 3-tech ... who's he blocking? And the DE is lined head-up on me. Am I releasing inside or out, because I dunno where Errin's going ... did I mis-hear the play? And ... crap ... I gotta Clinton something ..."

BTW, I'm not blaming Will or Errin as these examples are clearly made up. Except the call for "Rocket Sweet, Right" really is "Jabroni Macaroon".
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@steebu

For someone like me with very little knowledge of the nuts and bolts of line play, your post is fascinating and very educational. Thank you!

Taking your example one step further (as you say, nothing on Will or Errin, we're just borrowing them): what went wrong there? Did the D shift after Errin's call? Did Errin simply misread the 3 tech? What would the correct call have been for a 50 front, and what should Will have called in reply?
 

gtg936g

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The more I watch, the less I think (at this point in the season) that our problems are pre-snap. Let's say the MLB is assigned the dive, but Justin is reading the DE and the OLB, Instead of scraping the MLB is coming down hill. The RT/LT would have a hard time getting a hat on the MLB if the LT/RT is expecting him to scrape. I am not sure what the proper thing for the tackle to do in that instance.
 
Jacket prime

Jacket prime

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takethepoints said:
I think part of this is caused by the decision to signal in plays. When we were huddling, there was no doubt among the OLs about what play we would try to run. Now they are making blocking scheme decisions at the LOS and you can see that they are sometimes puzzled.
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i actually thought it was the opposite: that we started calling plays in from the sideline because we were confused in our assignments. If i recall, we fit started running the Not In Such a Hurry No Huddle (NISAHNH) at the UNC game, and we were just as confused at Notre Dame and Duke in the preceding weeks.
 
Wrecking Ball

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IronJacket7 said:
What is different from 2014 to 2015?

Answer: Personnel (Players)
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This isn't even an intelligible argument, unless you assume coaching should have no input into development. We returned 19 years of cumulative experience in the 4 returning starters, and saw REGRESSION. It IS a coach's job to motivate, teach, and improve their players, it's why CMS makes more money than I'll ever make.
 

Deltajacket

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Unlike a lot of teams that signal in plays, our OL are all down the entire time in a 3 point, weight forward stance. It's tough to hold the position for long, tough to get your head up to see deep LB's, and very tough to pop up and pass block. I'd also imagine it doesn't help with communication. Watch the linemen in Spread teams pointing out their assignments and talking while in a two point stance and you'll see a drastic difference. Any former college linemen have any war stories or thoughts?
 
IronJacket7

IronJacket7

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Wrecking Ball said:
This isn't even an intelligible argument, unless you assume coaching should have no input into development. We returned 19 years of cumulative experience in the 4 returning starters, and saw REGRESSION. It IS a coach's job to motivate, teach, and improve their players, it's why CMS makes more money than I'll ever make.
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Inexperience is my point. No coach can coach what we currently have on the field and make it an 11 win team.
 

stinger 1957

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I've wondered if maybe we're getting Will or Klock or one of the younger players ready for that job next year by playing them a lot now.
 

steebu

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Jacket prime said:
i actually thought it was the opposite: that we started calling plays in from the sideline because we were confused in our assignments. If i recall, we fit started running the Not In Such a Hurry No Huddle (NISAHNH) at the UNC game, and we were just as confused at Notre Dame and Duke in the preceding weeks.
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Not so sure I would agree with this; PJ said after the game that we executed better than we had at Notre Dumb and Puke. Probably a function of being at home and a little bit more of a comfort level for freshmen skill position guys.

FWIW, Johnson said after each of our first two games that we needed to improve big-time. I re-watched the Tulane game and (of course) he's dead on: all the things we are seeing now with missed assignments were apparent in that game. There's a stretch in the 2nd quarter where we run triple right and we miss the mike and he blows the play up. We run triple left and we miss him again and he makes the tackle. The difference was guys like Qua (we miss you, young man, get better quick) simply out-ran or made guys miss. Watch our first TD, for instance. Tulane <<<<<<<< Duke, so the skill guys were able to mask the missed assignments and whiffs.
 

steebu

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Buzz776g said:
@steebu

For someone like me with very little knowledge of the nuts and bolts of line play, your post is fascinating and very educational. Thank you!

Taking your example one step further (as you say, nothing on Will or Errin, we're just borrowing them): what went wrong there? Did the D shift after Errin's call? Did Errin simply misread the 3 tech? What would the correct call have been for a 50 front, and what should Will have called in reply?
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A lot of things can happen that can confuse the blocking schemes, but without sounding snarky or pointing fingers, particularly since The Man himself said it, during a radio show he commented, "Some of our guys can't recognize a 4-3 vs. a 3-4 or a 3-technique or a shade ... my daughter was doing that when she was 5. We've got to coach it better."

So ... take from that what you will.
 

Jay Alexander

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Wrecking Ball said:
My point was that it's not inexperience at all. In the slightest. This was the deepest, most experienced line we've had at Tech since.... O'Leary? Dodd?
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2013? Pretty sure Ray Beno, Will Jackson, and Jay Finch were Seniors and Shaq Mason was a Junior. Morgan Bailey should have been the Senior Tackle, but I don't think he ever played. Didn't Chamberlain start in his place?
 
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