Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[RonJohn]

What I’m saying is if you’re hurt & you cannot compete instead of taking a roster spot you get a medical scholarship. You don't have to go full on Saban but to purposefully pass on opportunities to help yourself you’d rather try to claim some Ethical National Championship trophy instead? How in the world is that unethical & who is it unethical to? There’s some serious GT delusion going on. You’re probably going to claim our football players don’t take the monstrously difficult beat your chest Calculus classes up the road where they’re much easier. Right, we’re GT and we’re ridiculously elitist.

GT does put players on medical scholarships when they are warranted. GT does not keep players who actually cannot play on athletic scholarships. There are several examples on the football team in the last few years. I am not advocating for keeping a player on the football team if doctors won't sign off on him playing, I haven't seen any posts from anyone who has suggested that.

 

[LibertyTurns]

So what do you do with the kid you want to get rid of that is healthy as a horse with nothing so much as a hangnail and still thinks he can win a spot on the team and wants to try? Oh and loves the school and the value of his degree?

He’s also the same kid you sold he and his parents on the 40 year plan and the GT family for life song and dance.

You honor the 4 year scholarship you committed to when he signed. It may be athletic or otherwise but if you guaranteed 4 years that’s what he gets.

Nobody’s answering the question about the length of the commitment. We are guaranteeing 4 years at signing day, correct?

 

[LibertyTurns]

GT does put players on medical scholarships when they are warranted. GT does not keep players who actually cannot play on athletic scholarships. There are several examples on the football team in the last few years. I am not advocating for keeping a player on the football team if doctors won't sign off on him playing, I haven't seen any posts from anyone who has suggested that.

How many do we have on medical now?

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

Cheating reference was asked to gauge how far you and others will go to win. I think I see it is sort of a “screw ethics...so long as it’s not illegal” mentality. Certainly within the rules to revoke a scholarship for any reason right now I guess.

What about commitment and promises? Answer this please. Does your word mean nothing?

I understand what you are saying but it then begs the question -

The players and parents want the school to commit for 4 years, but then the player declares after 3 or graduated after 3 and leaves.

Nothing against the rules in doing it, but what about them keeping their word to the school?

 

[RonJohn]

How many do we have on medical now?

Not sure how many on the team right now, but Gray and Stickler were put on medicals last Spring(May 2018). Gray released his heart condition to the public. Stickler did not release his condition which was described as an injury.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I understand what you are saying but it then begs the question -

The players and parents want the school to commit for 4 years, but then the player declares after 3 or graduated after 3 and leaves.

Nothing against the rules in doing it, but what about them keeping their word to the school?

What word? Do they promise x years?

 

[LibertyTurns]

Not sure how many on the team right now, but Gray and Stickler were put on medicals last Spring(May 2018). Gray released his heart condition to the public. Stickler did not release his condition which was described as an injury.

I was aware of those. I’m not sure there’s any others. You’d figure on a roster with 85 players spread over 5 years the number would be somewhere in the teens. I can’t remember where I saw it but I think the number was 3.

Hell my daughter’s cheerleading team not at GT has 2x more than that per year on a team of 30. I suppose it’s a more physical activity and everyone participates. There is no bench.

It’s a bit harsher deal. If you can’t make the team you lose your scholarship. I’m not sure they even do medicals. My daughter got hurt at the last competition and she had two months until tryouts to get her butt rehabbed and win a spot. Otherwise once healthy and cleared by the school she’d have been on the alternate list waiting for an opportunity to win her spot back.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Not sure how many on the team right now, but Gray and Stickler were put on medicals last Spring(May 2018). Gray released his heart condition to the public. Stickler did not release his condition which was described as an injury.

And Ratliffe as well.

 

[RonJohn]

I was aware of those. I’m not sure there’s any others. You’d figure on a roster with 85 players spread over 5 years the number would be somewhere in the teens. I can’t remember where I saw it but I think the number was 3.

Hell my daughter’s cheerleading team not at GT has 2x more than that per year on a team of 30. I suppose it’s a more physical activity and everyone participates. There is no bench.

It’s a bit harsher deal. If you can’t make the team you lose your scholarship. I’m not sure they even do medicals. My daughter got hurt at the last competition and she had two months until tryouts to get her butt rehabbed and win a spot. Otherwise once healthy and cleared by the school she’d have been on the alternate list waiting for an opportunity to win her spot back.

A medical scholarship isn't a DL. it means that you are signing a paper that says your condition is so severe and permanent that you will never be able to play again. If every team had four players injured so bad every year that they could never play again football would have a hard time staying a sport.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

What word? Do they promise x years?

Obviously the notion that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Pretty simple.

If they expect a 4 year commitment, why is it unreasonable for the schools to expect the same in return?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

First, I’d be upfront with the players. They’re competing for roster spots. If they get hurt & can’t compete at the level necessary to make the field, well that’s unfortunate but do you keep that guy around and take a scholarship from someone that can? How’s that ethical to the kid that doesn’t get a scholarship? You’re able to play, Johnny can’t, but we’re keeping Johnny on athletic scholarship & you can pay your way.

This is where recruiting expertise comes in. Plan ahead. Take fewer reaches if necessary. Sell a SA on a 4 year degree and 40 year plan, and family...then fail to honor that living room promise and you will get your butt handed to you on the recruiting trail eventually when word gets out. And it will through the kids high school coaches etc.

What I’m saying is if you’re hurt & you cannot compete instead of taking a roster spot you get a medical scholarship. You don't have to go full on Saban but to purposefully pass on opportunities to help yourself you’d rather try to claim some Ethical National Championship trophy instead? How in the world is that unethical & who is it unethical to? There’s some serious GT delusion going on. You’re probably going to claim our football players don’t take the monstrously difficult beat your chest Calculus classes up the road where they’re much easier. Right, we’re GT and we’re ridiculously elitist.

Getting a medical for a true medical issue benefits all. Abusing that loophole to kick a good kid off the team for an extra scholarship for next year is crappy.

Secondly, I don’t believe GT has ever granted a 4 year scholarship. Maybe I’m mistaken. You know what implied contracts are- not worth the paper they’re written on. I couldn’t find a CGC scholarship offer but did see one from CPJ. No mention of 4 years. No where in the offer did it say 4 years so you telling me we’ve got high & mighty pure as the driven snow Mr moral superiority GT representatives, assistants, coaches, etc wandering around misleading potential student athletes? Say it isn’t so. I hope we’ve been clearly stipulating 4 years, but I’d be surprised if that’s the case.

Most schools honor their SA scholarships as 4 year agreements. Bama can apparently get away with screwing kids over and still recruit at an elite level because they are playing for nattys every year and the kids they recruit think they are all gods of football who that will never happen to until it does. There is only one Bama. But maybe Clem has been winning some recruits because of this. Dunno. But I’m pretty certain Tech can’t play by these rules and succeed.

Now I’m back to reality. You guys can carry on in fantasy land. @Milwaukee takes 2 more victory laps.

Let’s hope Milwaukee doesn’t stop suddenly as he circles the track...you might not ever get your head out. See above inside quote for answers to your post.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I understand what you are saying but it then begs the question -

The players and parents want the school to commit for 4 years, but then the player declares after 3 or graduated after 3 and leaves.

Nothing against the rules in doing it, but what about them keeping their word to the school?

Tech has previously not accepted graduated SAs into graduate programs even when they had a year of eligibility left and a desire to stay on the team. So graduate transfers are fair. If an undergrad transfers it frees up a scholly and the SA is supposed to sit a year.

What’s unfair to Tech here?

 

[jojatk]

Tech has previously not accepted graduated SAs into graduate programs even when they had a year of eligibility left and a desire to stay on the team. So graduate transfers are fair. If an undergrad transfers it frees up a scholly and the SA is supposed to sit a year.

What’s unfair to Tech here?

I agree completely with you on this one. I've always felt that if you can graduate from GT in less than 4 years then you've earned the right to leave at that time... hah hah

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

Tech has previously not accepted graduated SAs into graduate programs even when they had a year of eligibility left and a desire to stay on the team. So graduate transfers are fair. If an undergrad transfers it frees up a scholly and the SA is supposed to sit a year.

What’s unfair to Tech here?

The same that is unfair to the players - nothing. Jeez we are just talking concept here.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I’ll ask again a different way and maybe someone knows.

Do we sign 4 year scholarship agreements with our players ? If not, why if it’s a 4 yr commitment GT’s making?

 

[smokey_wasp]

The funny thing about this thread is that we had a ton of attrition over the last decade, including transfers and guys simply graduating early and moving on. Yet, this conversation never happened. The only reason it is happening now is because CGC decided to practice some (very modest and very conservative) oversigning like the vast majority of coaches do. With just the average attrition we have had, we are going to easily be under the limit without any proactive actions taken.

 

[Animal02]

In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason. Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance.

Here are several facts about this rule:
– This new rule was voted in by the universities of the “Power 5” conferences – the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC-12, and SEC, as well as Notre Dame. This rule must be followed by these 65 universities.
– Other Division I schools and conferences can choose to follow this rule, but are not required to do so. So, an athlete receiving an athletic scholarship from a university that is NOT one of the 65 mentioned here might still receive a one-year scholarship which a coach can choose not to renew for the following academic year.
– The “protection” provided by this rule only applies to athletes who signed their National Letter of Intent and scholarship agreement after the new rule was approved in January of this year (at the NCAA Convention), will be enrolling in a Division I university as a freshman or new transfer this Fall, AND who will be receiving an athletic scholarship in their first year of enrollment.
– The rule will NOT apply to athletes who are not receiving an athletic scholarship in their first year of enrollment at their university. (Example: a volleyball player not receiving an athletic scholarship in their freshman year, but promised one in the following three years, will not receive the protection of this new rule.)
– It is still possible for universities to cancel or choose to not renew a scholarship for reasons that are NOT related to athletic performance.

Cancellation or non-renewal IS possible if an athlete:

• 
  
• Is ruled to be ineligible for competition;
  
• Provides fraudulent information on an application, letter of intent, or financial aid agreement;
  
• Engages in serious misconduct that rises to the level of being disciplined by the university’s regular student disciplinary board;
  
• Voluntarily quits their team; or
  
• Violates a university policy or rule which is not related to athletic conditions or ability (such as a university policy on class attendance, or an athletic department policy regarding proper conduct on a team trip).

https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

I’ll ask again a different way and maybe someone knows.

Do we sign 4 year scholarship agreements with our players ? If not, why if it’s a 4 yr commitment GT’s making?

Sorry, but I know I can not give you the answer.

My understanding, flawed as it may be, is that by the “letter of the law” the agreements are for one year, but that GT (and perhaps other schools) will say to parents and S/As that they will be honored “x 4”. If that makes sense.

But I am not the expert on this. I am under the impression that, perhaps by NCAA edict, the one year ship at a time rule is the standard. IDK.

Animal02 has a good read on it above but not sure if it says the ship is for just 1 year or not.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@Animal02 Thanks. Explains why different schools have different rules despite being governed by the same NCAA.

 

[GoldZ]

Sorry, but I know I can not give you the answer.

My understanding, flawed as it may be, is that by the “letter of the law” the agreements are for one year, but that GT (and perhaps other schools) will say to parents and S/As that they will be honored “x 4”. If that makes sense.

But I am not the expert on this. I am under the impression that, perhaps by NCAA edict, the one year ship at a time rule is the standard. IDK.

Animal02 has a good read on it above but not sure if it says the ship is for just 1 year or not.

It definitely covers the essence of the thread debate. Notice the language on "athletic performance". Of course the Bama wannabes here say, if Saban can do it, why don't we. Well, they are totally losing sight of Tech's historical uniqueness. The core prob is the hapless ncaa can't/won't enforce it's own rules. It will take the FBI to unravel it, like they are starting to in basketball.
Bama etal are basically reducing the players to corporate serfdom. I for one want nothing to do with it---or signing 3rd grade readers and reducing our program to ugag's graduation rates. If doing so means we win 7 vs 9 and beat ugag 3 vs 4 times a decade---I'm Juiced for it. Z