Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[dressedcheeseside]

Lets see. The player gets the option of staying and getting the degree or transferring somewhere to play. Who suffers? Is that not all any of us are asking for?

If the white lie offends you, tell the ncaa to fix the rule.

So you’re ok with factories having a defacto higher scholly limit than everyone else including us?

 

[smokey_wasp]

So you’re ok with factories having a defacto higher scholly limit than everyone else including us?

I said the loophole should be closed. Until it is, it is what it is.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I said the loophole should be closed. Until it is, it is what it is.

It’s not a loophole, it’s simply the NCAA looking the other way for the chosen few. We’d get busted in a heart beat.

 

[knoxjacket]

I have a coworker who had a son that played for USCe under a well known coach. His son lost his scholarship because he fell off the depth chart. That certain "beloved" coach flat out told him his scholarship was not being renewed. Another coworkers sons played for uga and GaSo. The one who played for uga never lost his scholly, but a buddy of his did, so when the time came for son two to play, he wouldn't even let the uga recruiter call him.

Interesting tidbit, we actually were recruiting son two hard as a back up, and offered him PWO but he went with GaSo over several P5 offers. Loved the coach who was fired after his freshman year. This last bit is why I'm big on protecting player scholarships.

A biased account and hearsay indicates this happens a “good bit.”

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Why am I not surprised?

Win first...ethics 2nd....this be big boi futbal....

 

[LibertyTurns]

A medical scholarship is just like a flimsy worker’s comp claim. You just need 1 doctor to write down on a piece of paper the player should never play again with that hurt knee, etc & you got your ticket to ride. We allege we have all student athletes on the team, so if you were faced with 3 more years of practicing through whatever was ailing you plus working out/ rehabbing & going to school all day or just going to school with a handful of desired activities on the side wouldn't some elect to take the latter if you knew there was no way you were finding the field at GT?

What’s the real difference between a guy riding the pine on scholarship and standing on the sidelines in a GT shirt getting a medical scholarship to finish his degree? Answer- some other athlete gets a chance at a scholarship.

Why is everyone so against what everyone else is doing? I really just don’t get it.

 

[bobongo]

A medical scholarship is just like a flimsy worker’s comp claim. You just need 1 doctor to write down on a piece of paper the player should never play again with that hurt knee, etc & you got your ticket to ride. We allege we have all student athletes on the team, so if you were faced with 3 more years of practicing through whatever was ailing you plus working out/ rehabbing & going to school all day or just going to school with a handful of desired activities on the side wouldn't some elect to take the latter if you knew there was no way you were finding the field at GT?

What’s the real difference between a guy riding the pine on scholarship and standing on the sidelines in a GT shirt getting a medical scholarship to finish his degree? Answer- some other athlete gets a chance at a scholarship.

Why is everyone so against what everyone else is doing? I really just don’t get it.

As long as it's all done on a level playing field, I don't see anything wrong with it. The only problem that I could see coming into this is that some athletic departments don't have the money for it and some do, so it's another way for the rich athletic departments use to get and maintain the upper hand. Like you, I don't see how it hurts the player who isn't going to see the field, anyway.

On the one hand, different levels of finance are determinants of athletic prowess that we all accept to an extent as part of the game. The question is whether scholarships should be yet another area where the ones with the most money win out. Some schools have the money to stick umpteen underperforming players on medical scholarships and some only have room for the one or two who are actually, medically unable to play. But some would say that's the same thing as some schools having money for (fill in the blank) and some not. I don't have an answer, but that seems to me to be the question.

 

[LibertyTurns]

As long as it's all done on a level playing field, I don't see anything wrong with it. The only problem that I could see coming into this is that some athletic departments don't have the money for it and some do, so it's another way for the rich athletic departments use to get and maintain the upper hand. Like you, I don't see how it hurts the player who isn't going to see the field, anyway.

On the one hand, different levels of finance are determinants of athletic prowess that we all accept to an extent as part of the game. The question is whether scholarships should be yet another area where the ones with the most money win out. Some schools have the money to stick umpteen underperforming players on medical scholarships and some only have room for the one or two who are actually, medically unable to play. But some would say that's the same thing as some schools having money for (fill in the blank) and some not. I don't have an answer, but that seems to me to be the question.

Well you’re the first person that nailed why we’re not doing it. We’ve been under-resourced for as long as I’ve been associated with GT. We want to drive the Bentley but pay for the Fiat.

 

[RonJohn]

A medical scholarship is just like a flimsy worker’s comp claim. You just need 1 doctor to write down on a piece of paper the player should never play again with that hurt knee, etc & you got your ticket to ride. We allege we have all student athletes on the team, so if you were faced with 3 more years of practicing through whatever was ailing you plus working out/ rehabbing & going to school all day or just going to school with a handful of desired activities on the side wouldn't some elect to take the latter if you knew there was no way you were finding the field at GT?

What’s the real difference between a guy riding the pine on scholarship and standing on the sidelines in a GT shirt getting a medical scholarship to finish his degree? Answer- some other athlete gets a chance at a scholarship.

Why is everyone so against what everyone else is doing? I really just don’t get it.

With the way the FBI and federal prosecutors are interpreting federal fraud statutes, they could make it a federal crime. The player, the coach, the trainer, the team physician, and the school's compliance officer all sign a document that states that the player is "injured or ill to the point that he or she apparently never again will be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics". If the player is not actually injured so drastically, then the people who sign the document are causing:

• The school to pay for two scholarships instead of one
• The player receiving the scholarship vacated by the player put on medical to be ineligible since he is receiving a scholarship that puts the team over the 85 scholarship limit.

These are frauds against the university and the people who sign the form should be prosecuted. (TIC regarding the basketball prosecutions, but not by much. There is virtually no difference in the two situations.)

 

[LibertyTurns]

With the way the FBI and federal prosecutors are interpreting federal fraud statutes, they could make it a federal crime. The player, the coach, the trainer, the team physician, and the school's compliance officer all sign a document that states that the player is "injured or ill to the point that he or she apparently never again will be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics". If the player is not actually injured so drastically, then the people who sign the document are causing:

• The school to pay for two scholarships instead of one
• The player receiving the scholarship vacated by the player put on medical to be ineligible since he is receiving a scholarship that puts the team over the 85 scholarship limit.

These are frauds against the university and the people who sign the form should be prosecuted. (TIC regarding the basketball prosecutions, but not by much. There is virtually no difference in the two situations.)

The easiest route is to do what we’ve been doing. Nothing.

I work in the land of judgment calls every day. I have the full spectrum of people working for me, those that are fraidy cats & literally paralyzed at putting their name on anything without enough analysis to land a man on the moon to those that nearly run out of ink rubber stamping stuff. Neither one’s correct in their approach nor advocated as the right tactic. They both get dealt with just in different ways & if they can’t figure it out the door’s in the same direction. There’s a middle ground that normal people operate in that have normal amounts of risk. You’re neither being reckless or imprudent but making rational decisions most people would deem acceptable. There is nothing risk-free except inaction & even with that there’s often consequences that are frequently as bad if not worse. To this point, GT largely has decided to fail to act & it’s part of the reason we are who we are in the college football world.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Well you’re the first person that nailed why we’re not doing it. We’ve been under-resourced for as long as I’ve been associated with GT. We want to drive the Bentley but pay for the Fiat.

When coaches go to recruit in living rooms are they selling a 4 year commitment or one year renewable agreement?

If other programs cheat Tech should too? If other people steal does that justify theft?

Make a commitment then follow through on that commitment. Our society is in shambles.

 

[LibertyTurns]

When coaches go to recruit in living rooms are they selling a 4 year commitment or one year renewable agreement?

If other programs cheat Tech should too? If other people steal does that justify theft?

Make a commitment then follow through on that commitment. Our society is in shambles.

Who said cheat? There are rules. Use them to your advantage or disadvantage or neither. The world is not black & white. I thought once you made it past 10 that would have been self-evident Man, some of you guys are hellbent on interpreting everything to the disbenefit of GT. And you wonder why we can’t compete?

 

[stech81]

And happy Easter to all of you.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

A biased account and hearsay indicates this happens a “good bit.”

Hearsay? I know these kids. It happens a lot more than you know, but keep defending unethical processes all you want. The coworker whos son played at uga wasn't biased. He saw it happen to teammates, not him. For the father, it was enough to turn him off to uga and factories. He encouraged his second son to look at the bigger picture. Had GT come through, he would have picked us because of our reputation in taking care of student athletes. Unfortunately, we had enough LBs at the time, and he didn't want to play AB.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Lets see. The player gets the option of staying and getting the degree or transferring somewhere to play. Who suffers? Is that not all any of us are asking for?

If the white lie offends you, tell the ncaa to fix the rule.

Why is everyone so against what everyone else is doing? I really just don’t get it.

I know I am a bit of an anachronism, but this sums up my frustration. To me, the white lie is just as bad as the non-white lie. Maybe it's my military academy education, but the Honor Code was drilled into us.

"WE WILL NOT LIE, CHEAT, STEAL, OR ATTEMPT TO DECEIVE, NOR TOLERATE AMONGST US THOSE WHO DO."

Honor and integrity mean something to me. I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with this type of thinking.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Who said cheat? There are rules. Use them to your advantage or disadvantage or neither. The world is not black & white. I thought once you made it past 10 that would have been self-evident Man, some of you guys are hellbent on interpreting everything to the disbenefit of GT. And you wonder why we can’t compete?

Cheating reference was asked to gauge how far you and others will go to win. I think I see it is sort of a “screw ethics...so long as it’s not illegal” mentality. Certainly within the rules to revoke a scholarship for any reason right now I guess.

What about commitment and promises? Answer this please. Does your word mean nothing?

 

[LibertyTurns]

Cheating reference was asked to gauge how far you and others will go to win. I think I see it is sort of a “screw ethics...so long as it’s not illegal” mentality. Certainly within the rules to revoke a scholarship for any reason right now I guess.

What about commitment and promises? Answer this please. Does your word mean nothing?

First, I’d be upfront with the players. They’re competing for roster spots. If they get hurt & can’t compete at the level necessary to make the field, well that’s unfortunate but do you keep that guy around and take a scholarship from someone that can? How’s that ethical to the kid that doesn’t get a scholarship? You’re able to play, Johnny can’t, but we’re keeping Johnny on athletic scholarship & you can pay your way.

What I’m saying is if you’re hurt & you cannot compete instead of taking a roster spot you get a medical scholarship. You don't have to go full on Saban but to purposefully pass on opportunities to help yourself you’d rather try to claim some Ethical National Championship trophy instead? How in the world is that unethical & who is it unethical to? There’s some serious GT delusion going on. You’re probably going to claim our football players don’t take the monstrously difficult beat your chest Calculus classes up the road where they’re much easier. Right, we’re GT and we’re ridiculously elitist.

Secondly, I don’t believe GT has ever granted a 4 year scholarship. Maybe I’m mistaken. You know what implied contracts are- not worth the paper they’re written on. I couldn’t find a CGC scholarship offer but did see one from CPJ. No mention of 4 years. No where in the offer did it say 4 years so you telling me we’ve got high & mighty pure as the driven snow Mr moral superiority GT representatives, assistants, coaches, etc wandering around misleading potential student athletes? Say it isn’t so. I hope we’ve been clearly stipulating 4 years, but I’d be surprised if that’s the case.

Now I’m back to reality. You guys can carry on in fantasy land. @Milwaukee takes 2 more victory laps.

 

[Animal02]

First, I’d be upfront with the players. They’re competing for roster spots. If they get hurt & can’t compete at the level necessary to make the field, well that’s unfortunate but do you keep that guy around and take a scholarship from someone that can? How’s that ethical to the kid that doesn’t get a scholarship? You’re able to play, Johnny can’t, but we’re keeping Johnny on athletic scholarship & you can pay your way.

What I’m saying is if you’re hurt & you cannot compete instead of taking a roster spot you get a medical scholarship. You don't have to go full on Saban but to purposefully pass on opportunities to help yourself you’d rather try to claim some Ethical National Championship trophy instead? How in the world is that unethical & who is it unethical to? There’s some serious GT delusion going on. You’re probably going to claim our football players don’t take the monstrously difficult beat your chest Calculus classes up the road where they’re much easier. Right, we’re GT and we’re ridiculously elitist.

Secondly, I don’t believe GT has ever granted a 4 year scholarship. Maybe I’m mistaken. You know what implied contracts are- not worth the paper they’re written on. I couldn’t find a CGC scholarship offer but did see one from CPJ. No mention of 4 years. No where in the offer did it say 4 years so you telling me we’ve got high & mighty pure as the driven snow Mr moral superiority GT representatives, assistants, coaches, etc wandering around misleading potential student athletes? Say it isn’t so. I hope we’ve been clearly stipulating 4 years, but I’d be surprised if that’s the case.

Now I’m back to reality. You guys can carry on in fantasy land. @Milwaukee takes 2 more victory laps.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

How’s that ethical to the kid that doesn’t get a scholarship?

That's not a question of ethics. Lots of kids are not offered scholarships.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

So what do you do with the kid you want to get rid of that is healthy as a horse with nothing so much as a hangnail and still thinks he can win a spot on the team and wants to try? Oh and loves the school and the value of his degree?

He’s also the same kid you sold he and his parents on the 40 year plan and the GT family for life song and dance.