Attrition and Scholarship Limits

Milwaukee

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I hear crickets.

Lord this is exhausting. How about 30 years of examples. Look at GT fb transfers from the past. There's a lot of them there, not all, but a lot. What do you think players are leaving for? Personal reasons every time? Do you expect the coach/admin to say "We're running a business here"? when in reality they are.

It doesn't make us bad, it's just the reality of division 1 sports. The 2016 mass exodus stands out as a recent purge I can recall, but just look at the past 30 years of transfers and there's many of your answers. The cute part is a couple of you drawing a line in the sand about "If we ever do that sort of thing here I'm not gonna be a fan any longer".

Everyone's laughing like "Dude are you blind?"

It doesn't mean GT is the boogeyman. But please don't tell me you think 129 schools do this in day to day operations "except for us, we're different".

Say it with me...it's okay. It's okay.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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Lord this is exhausting. How about 30 years of examples. Look at GT fb transfers from the past. There's a lot of them there, not all, but a lot. What do you think players are leaving for? Personal reasons every time? Do you expect the coach/admin to say "We're running a business here"? when in reality they are.

It doesn't make us bad, it's just the reality of division 1 sports. The 2016 mass exodus stands out as a recent purge I can recall, but just look at the past 30 years of transfers and there's many of your answers. The cute part is a couple of you drawing a line in the sand about "If we ever do that sort of thing here I'm not gonna be a fan any longer".

Everyone's laughing like "Dude are you blind?"

It doesn't mean GT is the boogeyman. But please don't tell me you think 129 schools do this in day to day operations "except for us, we're different".

Say it with me...it's okay. It's okay.

I think we have different definitions of “processing”

Let me ask a hypothetical. If we over sign and no players decide to transfer out or quit football, what do we do about the extra number of SAs? And please don’t obfuscate by saying “it will all work out...say it with me...it’s okay.” Because that leaves an awful amount of hypothetical wriggle room to include completely screwing over a SA.
 

takethepoints

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I am simply curious - does Tech, or any other school for that matter, really make a “deal” with athletes that they will get 4 (or even 5) year scholarships? I thought they were one year scholarships that were renewable at the option of the school. At the risk of being legalistic, I am speaking about enforceable “deals”, not simply an unspoken way of doing things. With the growing freedom of athletes to transfer, one has to wonder if such an historical “understanding” can and will survive. What would happen if an entire team, or some large number of players, transferred and the team lacked the numbers and talent to compete in an upcoming season? That’s an extreme and unlikely example, of course, but if athletes gain the unfettered ability to transfer, one might expect an increasing adherence to the existing one-year, renewable scholarship model.
All contracts have explicit and implicit (the "spirit" of the contract) terms and, unless I'm mistaken, you can sue over both.

Sure, Tech could, within legal limits, pull a scholarship if the player doesn't perform. Indeed, at some schools we know, that's par for the course. But think of what that says to incoming students. It says that Tech never really cared whether they got an education or not and that there is no reason for them to think that if they don't see the field they will still be in school. I know that if I was a parent, I'd never send my son to a place like that unless I was pretty sure he was going to be a pro and he was too. (Hence, why it works at Bammer.)

This is also a feature of what has become a truly corrupt system. "Corrupt" is a word used far too loosely these days, but it fits here. What are publicly supported post-secondary institutions for if not to educate all who can get into them? Originally, athletic scholarships were conceived to expand opportunities for education for poor, but talented students. The way the factories behave has twisted the idea to fit another goal altogether: winning at all costs. Including the future of most of the players they recruit. They do this so that the coaches can justify immense salaries and satisfy a lazy fanbase often dominated by people who never blackened the door of the university or college in question. And, of course, to try to squeeze money out of donors because the population as a whole demands education for their children and refuses to pay for it. The whole enterprise is riddled with corrupt incentives from top to bottom. Places like Tech, Wake, and Puke (give the devil his due) try to play the game as uprightly as they can, but they are under constant pressure (see the posts above) to dive into the mud with the rest. No reason at all to give in to it. NONE.
 

Technut1990

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If we are talking about football then surely we can acknowledge that kids get cut at some middle schools, a lot of high schools and most college programs. The game dictates that the best stay with the team, those that don't make the cut don't make it because there are others that are better. I know of no team that keeps inferior players just to enhance the schools reputation.

Keeping kids on the team just because we offered them a scholly at one point does not mean they themselves thought they would never be beat out. I would hate being on a team that expected me to give all I have while they kept players who weren't deserving of the spot, talent wise.

If Tech wants to honor the scholly that's up to them, it's the schools endowment money, but keeping them on the team just because it may hurt our rep to cut them strikes me as a very millennial thing to do. Certainly not a football thing to do.
 

Animal02

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I think we have different definitions of “processing”

Let me ask a hypothetical. If we over sign and no players decide to transfer out or quit football, what do we do about the extra number of SAs? And please don’t obfuscate by saying “it will all work out...say it with me...it’s okay.” Because that leaves an awful amount of hypothetical wriggle room to include completely screwing over a SA.
He can't name anyone nor has anyone else. Being up front with a kid and telling him he likely wony play much, and if that is really what he wants...is not processing. Yanking a scholly due to performance,or gray shirting because you signed someone "better" is a completely different story....and apparently what a few ignorant posters here want to do.
 

tsrich

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If we are talking about football then surely we can acknowledge that kids get cut at some middle schools, a lot of high schools and most college programs. The game dictates that the best stay with the team, those that don't make the cut don't make it because there are others that are better. I know of no team that keeps inferior players just to enhance the schools reputation.

Keeping kids on the team just because we offered them a scholly at one point does not mean they themselves thought they would never be beat out. I would hate being on a team that expected me to give all I have while they kept players who weren't deserving of the spot, talent wise.

If Tech wants to honor the scholly that's up to them, it's the schools endowment money, but keeping them on the team just because it may hurt our rep to cut them strikes me as a very millennial thing to do. Certainly not a football thing to do.
If you believe that, then you should be for unrestricted transfers. If schools can cut a player at any time, that player should be able to move to another school at any time with no penalty.
 

Milwaukee

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He can't name anyone nor has anyone else. Being up front with a kid and telling him he likely wony play much, and if that is really what he wants...is not processing. Yanking a scholly due to performance,or gray shirting because you signed someone "better" is a completely different story....and apparently what a few ignorant posters here want to do.

 

takethepoints

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If we are talking about football then surely we can acknowledge that kids get cut at some middle schools, a lot of high schools and most college programs. The game dictates that the best stay with the team, those that don't make the cut don't make it because there are others that are better. I know of no team that keeps inferior players just to enhance the schools reputation.

Keeping kids on the team just because we offered them a scholly at one point does not mean they themselves thought they would never be beat out. I would hate being on a team that expected me to give all I have while they kept players who weren't deserving of the spot, talent wise.

If Tech wants to honor the scholly that's up to them, it's the schools endowment money, but keeping them on the team just because it may hurt our rep to cut them strikes me as a very millennial thing to do. Certainly not a football thing to do.
Problem = the middle and high schools aren't in a contractual relationship with the players. They knew they could get cut when they came out. We're talking apples and oranges (again) here.
 

g0lftime

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When Butch Davis was hired at UNC he did not renew something like 10 players that still had eligibility when he was hired. If I remember right he signed over 30 that first season. Saban is the master at managing his scholarships.
 

Technut1990

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Problem = the middle and high schools aren't in a contractual relationship with the players. They knew they could get cut when they came out. We're talking apples and oranges (again) here.

No Apples and Oranges here, I will admit that I haven't read the financial agreement/scholly offer lately BUT I do live in the modern world, you will never convince me that the colleges are guaranteeing free money with no way out in the contract. If the players are getting guaranteed aid money or no strings binding legal obligations I'd be shocked. The players know what they are signing and it isn't an unconditional promise, if they were Alabama, Clemson and the rest of them would be getting sued every time they pull a spot.
 

iceeater1969

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@Whiskey_Clear the honest answer there is a player would be nudged out via transfer.
But better not happen on regular basis!!!

During this transition (lots of ab to lots of wr period), I could forgive a little nudging. But having had a career of hiring, firing, promoting, and demoting proffessinals, I know its tough . - But if done in a firm, fair, and friendly manner you don't make enemies and actually keep friends.

The goal is to have each SA and family still loving ga tech football after they leave.

Guys , the people skills that coach and sewak have are not why they were hired. Coach is famous for getting in the face of ol and yelling. I have spoken to the player and they say its embarrassing, but they know coach cares and wants them better I ask if when coach had yelled at them , had they really screwed up? They all said yes. There has been nudging.

Coach is a genius at seeing everything on the field. I hope some day he will return as a consultant to help us to the next level.
 

Animal02

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No Apples and Oranges here, I will admit that I haven't read the financial agreement/scholly offer lately BUT I do live in the modern world, you will never convince me that the colleges are guaranteeing free money with no way out in the contract. If the players are getting guaranteed aid money or no strings binding legal obligations I'd be shocked. The players know what they are signing and it isn't an unconditional promise, if they were Alabama, Clemson and the rest of them would be getting sued every time they pull a spot.
The players do have requirements....staying academically eligible, avoiding banned substances etc.
Be on the 2 deep list is NOT one of them
 

Animal02

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If we are talking about football then surely we can acknowledge that kids get cut at some middle schools, a lot of high schools and most college programs. The game dictates that the best stay with the team, those that don't make the cut don't make it because there are others that are better. I know of no team that keeps inferior players just to enhance the schools reputation.

Keeping kids on the team just because we offered them a scholly at one point does not mean they themselves thought they would never be beat out. I would hate being on a team that expected me to give all I have while they kept players who weren't deserving of the spot, talent wise.

If Tech wants to honor the scholly that's up to them, it's the schools endowment money, but keeping them on the team just because it may hurt our rep to cut them strikes me as a very millennial thing to do. Certainly not a football thing to do.
It is about believing in them as STUDENTS first, athletes second. There are several here that think it should be reversed.......they should cheer for a team down the road IMO.
 

lv20gt

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It is about believing in them as STUDENTS first, athletes second. There are several here that think it should be reversed.......they should cheer for a team down the road IMO.

They are students first on ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS. There are people who think that holding students on ATHLETIC scholarships accountable to an ATHLETIC measure is what should be done. Guess what, removing the ATHLETIC scholarship doesn't make them no longer a student. They are still enrolled and can still get their degree.
 

bobongo

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Lord this is exhausting. How about 30 years of examples. Look at GT fb transfers from the past. There's a lot of them there, not all, but a lot. What do you think players are leaving for? Personal reasons every time? Do you expect the coach/admin to say "We're running a business here"? when in reality they are.

It doesn't make us bad, it's just the reality of division 1 sports. The 2016 mass exodus stands out as a recent purge I can recall, but just look at the past 30 years of transfers and there's many of your answers. The cute part is a couple of you drawing a line in the sand about "If we ever do that sort of thing here I'm not gonna be a fan any longer".

Everyone's laughing like "Dude are you blind?"

It doesn't mean GT is the boogeyman. But please don't tell me you think 129 schools do this in day to day operations "except for us, we're different".

Say it with me...it's okay. It's okay.

You were asked to name one player who had his scholarship involuntarily revoked, and I still hear crickets.
 

Animal02

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They are students first on ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS. There are people who think that holding students on ATHLETIC scholarships accountable to an ATHLETIC measure is what should be done. Guess what, removing the ATHLETIC scholarship doesn't make them no longer a student. They are still enrolled and can still get their degree.
Sorry, but not making the 2 deep Roster will NEVER be a requirement to maintain a scholarship. As I said, those that think otherwise should go cheer for a team down the road.
 

Milwaukee

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You were asked to name one player who had his scholarship involuntarily revoked, and I still hear crickets.

I'm sorry, Bob, is it? You seemed to have developed some sort of infatuation with me, and believe me, that's okay. I can't tell you a player that has had his scholarship "involuntarily revoked?". But in the meantime we're having a discussion about college football processing that is currently taking place and has been for 30 years at GT that I think you may enjoy. Join in on the fun, all are welcome.
 

BCJacket

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