Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[GoldZ]

The academic prowess not being the same is just more reason they should be held to a standard above "I showed up and tried real hard". They are getting money for playing football, not for showing up and trying hard. If they aren't good at football, they shouldn't be getting money for it. There are plenty of regular students who can't cut it academically at GT. They also don't get the opportunity to try that SA's already got. If they can't cut it they can transfer, just like anyone else that finds out they can't cut it.

As far as the $ goes, same deal. There are plenty of people that have to take out loans to go to college, and they don't get two or three years paid for like the SA would. And the reality is there are plenty of people that can't afford college. It sucks, but it also doesn't mean they should get a handout.



And if that is all their end entails then the coach is a fool.

Who is the fool that recruited the kid?

 

[GoldZ]

I have never had any problem with pulling a scholarship after 3 years if that player is not contributing on the field. Just be honest up front about expectations. Nothing should ever be guaranteed.

And you think CGC is telling Mama this in her living room?

 

[lv20gt]

Who is the fool that recruited the kid?

What kid are you talking about?

 

[LibertyTurns]

And you think CGC is telling Mama this in her living room?

When you’re interviewing a candidate for your business I’m sure you’re reminding them their job isn’t guaranteed, the person you’re pairing them up with isn’t all that and you point out all the other organizational shortcomings. Of course not. You’re telling them how great everything’s going to be for them, the sky’s the limit, what a fantastic team you’re building, etc.

Saban tells all his recruits they are going to be a first round draft choice and make millions. I seriously doubt him or anyone on his staff discusses bait & switch scholarship offers, grey shirting, forced transfers, medical exemptions, never seeing the field, inability to gain employment after your time is up, etc.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

You're mixing apples and oranges here.

Yes, Tech washes people - athletes and others - out for academic reasons all the time. But what some here are talking about is washing out a student based not on his performance in the classroom, but on his performance on the football field. That's different. Tech made a deal with the players: stay in school and play football and we'll pay for most of it. If they can't cut it academically, they usually leave. But if they can't get on the field, keep trying, and they stay in school, then the rest of the bargain still stands. Tech took a chance that the player will be a contributor to the main income-earning sport sponsored by the GTAA and the reason the young man came to Tech was to play and go to school. However, the bargain doesn't end if the player can't get on the field. Taking the scholarship away is, in effect, kicking the kid out of school for reasons that have little or nothing to do with his education. That won't do. I don't care what some schools - there are less of them then we might think, imho - do, that isn't how we've done things and it is both cynical and short-sighted to start with that kind of thing now.

Or, at least, that's how it seems to me.

Our Freshman retention rate is 50% higher than it was 20 years ago. We don’t wash people out anymore. Well I mean a couple people yes. But you don’t get a 97% retention rate unless 97% of Freshman stay.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Revoking a scholarship isn't taking away their chance to get a degree. They don't get kicked out of school. They can stay, get their degree, and if they have to take out loans then they are just like countless others who are in the same situation.

Anyways, not targeted at anyone in particular, I have never understood why people are so against processing. Pretty much any other scholarship comes with stipulations. If you have HOPE you have to maintain a 3.0 or better. It doesn't matter how hard you try, or if you to show up to class every day, or try your hardest. If you get a 2.7 then you don't get that money. You aren't kicked out of school.

Yet when it comes to athletic scholarships, apparently the only bar is showing up to practice and maintaining eligibility, which is something like a 2.0. To me that sounds absurd. The only reason anyone has a scholarship at Bama is because they convinced Saban they could help the team win. That is the bar that they have to make to keep the scholarship. If they don't meat it, they find themselves in the same position as mr. 2.7 in the previous case. And that is the way it should be. If you aren't helping the team in the opinion of the person who's job is to run it, then why are you getting a scholarship specifically for that team?

Processing is shady because you’re really cutting them which is perfectly legal but pretending you’re not.

 

[SteamWhistle]

 

[GoldZ]

What kid are you talking about?

The one that the coach recruited that did everything he could to make the 2 deep, but other guys were better. In other words the one some on here want to tell he's out.

 

[jacket_fan]

I'm with stech81. Valid points on both sides of the scholarship argument.

Maybe the scholarship players can chime in on what was promised by coaches and the institute.

Are Tech recruits told it is a 4 year deal? What is on the contract? I assume you still sign a contract.

 

[lv20gt]

The one that the coach recruited that did everything he could to make the 2 deep, but other guys were better. In other words the one some on here want to tell he's out.

So I guess the coach you would be looking for would be Johnson then.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I'm with stech81. Valid points on both sides of the scholarship argument.

Maybe the scholarship players can chime in on what was promised by coaches and the institute.

Are Tech recruits told it is a 4 year deal? What is on the contract? I assume you still sign a contract.

It is a one year renewable contract. The only thing stopping coaches from cutting kids every year like high schools do is the stigma attached to it. It would kill recruiting.

A couple years ago, the NCAA voted on allowing schools to offer four year scholarships to student athletes. Now this wasn’t a mandatory four year scholarship, just the ability for schools to offer them if they want to. Guess who voted against it? Bama was one of them. Sabin didn’t want other schools to have any advantage over him and he certainly didn’t want to offer four year scholarships.

As far as GT processing kids goes, I find it very hard to reconcile that with all the family mumbo-jumbo that’s being thrown around. How do you tell a kid you’re part of the GT football family and then turn around and process them right on out because they don’t make the field? If you want to operate like a business, fine. Just don’t tell the kids you’re in a family.

 

[GoldZ]

No, it wouldn't be Johnson, it would be any D-1 college coach. It's what you do with the Jr. 3rd and 4th team players that separate coaches and programs. CGC will have those too, so we will see, huh?

 

[lv20gt]

No, it wouldn't be Johnson, it would be any D-1 college coach. It's what you do with the Jr. 3rd and 4th team players that separate coaches and programs. CGC will have those too, so we will see, huh?

No, not every D1 coach tells recruits all they have to do is show up and work hard to maintain a scholarship, and nor should they.

 

[LibertyTurns]

The one that the coach recruited that did everything he could to make the 2 deep, but other guys were better. In other words the one some on here want to tell he's out.

I find this argument interesting because on one hand we need depth to compete, on the other hand we’re unwilling to cut a player from the team.

My daughter’s a Junior and they had tryouts for next season’s team last week. If she had not made the cut, she’d have lost her partial scholarship. At no time did she expect favoritism, etc by virtue of the fact she put the time in the last 3 seasons. I really just don’t get it. Making hard decisions is what you get paid for when you’re in charge. People should expect nothing short of fair treatment, but there’s a big difference between fair and just resigning yourself to a 4 year deal regardless of the level of performance demonstrated along the way.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

No, not every D1 coach tells recruits all they have to do is show up and work hard to maintain a scholarship, and nor should they.

No, they blow all kinds of sunshine up their arses feeding their insatiable egos.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I find this argument interesting because on one hand we need depth to compete, on the other hand we’re unwilling to cut a player from the team.

My daughter’s a Junior and they had tryouts for next season’s team last week. If she had not made the cut, she’d have lost her partial scholarship. At no time did she expect favoritism, etc by virtue of the fact she put the time in the last 3 seasons. I really just don’t get it. Making hard decisions is what you get paid for when you’re in charge. People should expect nothing short of fair treatment, but there’s a big difference between fair and just resigning yourself to a 4 year deal regardless of the level of performance demonstrated along the way.

The problem is the reputation you get for doing that type of stuff and the effect it has on recruiting. If everybody’s doing it, it’s no big deal. If you’re the only one, you’re a pariah. My guess is whatever sport your daughter is playing it’s a pretty common practice.

 

[lv20gt]

No, they blow all kinds of sunshine up their arses feeding their insatiable egos.

And yet everyone involved knows the only reason Johnny is getting that offer is because he is good at football. Nobody is earning a scholarship because the coach thinks they will work hard and try their best so there should be no expectation that is the bar needed to keep it.

 

[LibertyTurns]

The problem is the reputation you get for doing that type of stuff and the effect it has on recruiting. If everybody’s doing it, it’s no big deal. If you’re the only one, you’re a pariah. My guess is whatever sport your daughter is playing it’s a pretty common practice.

I’m glad she made the cut because the alternative wouldn’t have been pretty. There were a couple of Juniors and Sophs plus some Freshman that are now off the team. Coach extended tryouts 3 hours trying to cull the herd. Sad for the kids that didn’t make it but it was an extremely fair process. It’s never pleasant but you have so many roster spots, some back ups for injuries and after that there’s no more.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

And yet everyone involved knows the only reason Johnny is getting that offer is because he is good at football. Nobody is earning a scholarship because the coach thinks they will work hard and try their best so there should be no expectation that is the bar needed to keep it.

I really have no problem with it if you’re upfront about it from the very beginning. But my guess is if you do that your recruiting is going to go down the tank. Also, you better knock off all the family blah blah blah.

 

[bobongo]

So I guess the coach you would be looking for would be Johnson then.

Uh, you don't get to renege on the deal made previously just because you change coaches. Whatever the deal was before, it still is. If you have any integrity, that is. And, if you want anyone to keep believing what you say.