Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[91Wreck]

PB earned the right to move on by graduating. That’s a whole different ball of wax. And we got another scholly to give in the next class.

I agree he earned the right to move on. I even stated that I supported his decision. He did what was best for him. I have no ill will towards him. However, his departure will hurt our football team.

On the one hand, you want GT to make scholarships for four years. But you are willing to concede that players should have the right to leave in three if they graduate. Getting a scholarship back but losing your best lineman in December are not equal outcomes. Parker Braun is probably going to be better off, and GT most assuredly will be worse.

With the rule that allows players that graduate to transfer and with the NCAA loosening other transfer rules, GT may be forced to make "business decisions" just like Parker Braun. And yes, that MAY entail over recruiting and then "processing" players who are not performing Above The Line. But even if this does happen I honestly can't see Collins processing anyone that is at the very least a hard worker on the scout team.

It is a fact of life that every organization has under-performers that are that way because they don't believe in the organization's vision, or they are not willing to put in the effort. Unless of course Bobby Dodd stadium was built on the shores of Lake Wobegon.

 

[tmhunter52]

The players do have requirements....staying academically eligible, avoiding banned substances etc.
Be on the 2 deep list is NOT one of them

If they are all above the line, there are no 2-deep or processing issues!

 

[bobongo]

There are ways of "processing" kids with actually processing them. There was a rumor that O'Leary use to send messages to guys he didn't want back by burying them on the depth chart and basically turning them into tackling dummies.

If someone isn't performing, why would he be high on the depth chart? Seems apropos' that he would be "buried on the depth chart".

 

[LibertyTurns]

Wow, now we’re advocating tolerating misbehavior because we committed to a scholarship with a kid when he was a Senior in HS?

I don’t care what you’re calling it, I as a leader do not tolerate BS from my team. Don’t show up and try hard, compete and contribute to the Team’s success then you’re out the door. The top performers appreciate it, the middle performers fall in line and the low performers either leave or get told to leave.

No wonder why we’re soft. Kid decides he doesn’t have the heart for it any more as a Soph but knows we don’t have the backbone to do the right thing so he gets a free ride. Amazing.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

I hear crickets.

Seems like I remember something about Travis Chambers being run off (or attempt made) by ccg & cjt.

I know a guy from North Springs h.s. in 69 that was told it would be best if he looked elsewhere.

Don't think it was a secret that Bobby C told several d Morrison (Dear Heavens) holdovers to move on.

Anyone thinking it doesn't happen just doesn't know.

 

[bobongo]

Seems like I remember something about Travis Chambers being run off (or attempt made) by ccg & cjt.

I know a guy from North Springs h.s. in 69 that was told it would be best if he looked elsewhere.

Don't think it was a secret that Bobby C told several d Morrison (Dear Heavens) holdovers to move on.

Anyone thinking it doesn't happen just doesn't know.

Once again, telling someone he doesn't fit into future plans and involuntarily revoking his scholarship are two different things. "Told it would be best if he looked elsewhere" is not revoking his scholarship. Nothing wrong with being honest with a player, as I've said previously. If some call that "processing", that's just a matter of semantics, as Whiskey_Clear pointed out. Call it what you like.

The actual involuntary pulling of scholarships isn't something that is done very often anywhere, but it is something that has been suggested by some posters here. It has not happened as far as I know at Tech (I may be wrong, but I can't recall it happening), and it should never happen.

 

[85Escape]

My support for the program is only the last 4 decades so I missed the Dodd years where we had immense fan support. I kinda chuckle when we’re fearful of losing some “pure as the driven snow” fans. Bammer, mutt, Clemp, nobody who’s winning cares whether or not Johnny got an A or a D in calculus or if he took it at all, nor do they really care whether or not we medical exempt noncontributors or have them take roster spots someone else that has the potential to compete could use, etc. If they did, the stands would be packed every weekend and our media guide would read like 85 transcripts instead of football stats/info.

GT’s elite reputation is not in danger same as people aren’t turning away USC Doctors or Business Majors because some Hollywood loser bribed her daughter into college, scoffing at hiring Yalie’s because some rich douchebag father bought some coach’s house and his son didn’t really know how to fence, nor do they pass on Dookies because Zion’s mother got money for fake consulting. UNC fans are not bothered one bit they ran fake classes for decades. Mutt fans don’t care how many times their idiots get thrown into jail nor that they have an atrocious academic record but they sure as hell care they can't win a title.

GT either wants to win or they don’t. If we do, we need to take the we can’t shackles off and start playing by the same rules as our competition. To think we’ll get different results doing otherwise is commendable but not rationale if your goal is to win consistently at a high level.

You are so right. I think we should go after opponent knees with batons if needed. Winning is all that matters and anyone who doesn't do everything it takes to win is just a loser. Whatever it takes, right?

 

[deeeznutz]

It’s ridiculous that we’re 15 pages in on a debate over what might hypothetically happen in the HUGELY UNLIKELY case that we have zero offseason attrition losses. Knowing our luck, we should expect at least 1 significant contributor to be lost to grades/injury/etc. Worst case scenario, we are 3 over the limit when the freshmen are supposed to report. In that case, our coaches can talk with the players who are clearly not going to get any reps and see if they’d want to transfer knowing that info (which is actually a benefit to the player to know) or if they would like to be put on a medical exemption and finish their degree gratis (not dishonest, just taking advantage of the loopholes the NCAA has baked into the system, and is entirely fair to the player). If they want neither of those and want to continue practicing with no hope of playing, then we have to talk to a few of the freshmen who look to need the RS year the most and ask them to grayshirt til January (not a bad option either, as they get basically an extra RS year), and if they decline we can grant them a release. And again, this is for a MAX of 3 spots, with history telling us it’ll all be moot anyway with attrition. I expect those “you don’t have much future on field here, maybe you’d like to look elsewhere” conversations to take place after spring when the coaches have had a chance to really evaluate everyone, and I fully expect there to be a handful who take that opportunity. It’s in the players’ best interest to know where they stand, and if they want a chance to actually see the field they should be granted an unequivocal release if they want it.

 

[bobongo]

Wow, now we’re advocating tolerating misbehavior because we committed to a scholarship with a kid when he was a Senior in HS?

I don’t care what you’re calling it, I as a leader do not tolerate BS from my team. Don’t show up and try hard, compete and contribute to the Team’s success then you’re out the door. The top performers appreciate it, the middle performers fall in line and the low performers either leave or get told to leave.

No wonder why we’re soft. Kid decides he doesn’t have the heart for it any more as a Soph but knows we don’t have the backbone to do the right thing so he gets a free ride. Amazing.

Absolutely no one has suggested that "misbehavior" should be tolerated. Habitually breaking rules can get one kicked off the team.

I would imagine it's not usually very easy to determine whether someone is trying hard. Maybe he is, but they he just can't cut it. If it's really, really obvious - if a player is actually not showing up (absent from practice) I would agree it's obvious they aren't trying. But this falls under the category of breaking the rules. In most cases the coach isn't going to know for certain how much of a player's lack of development or performance is due to a lack of effort or a lack of ability. And giving coaches that arbitrary power to pull scholarships just on their arbitrary determination that someone isn't trying is to start down a slippery slope. I would just assume most, if not all of our players are trying. Maybe some just can't cut it. You pays your money and you takes your chances. That's the way it works.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

It’s ridiculous that we’re 15 pages in on a debate over what might hypothetically happen in the HUGELY UNLIKELY case that we have zero offseason attrition losses. Knowing our luck, we should expect at least 1 significant contributor to be lost to grades/injury/etc. Worst case scenario, we are 3 over the limit when the freshmen are supposed to report. In that case, our coaches can talk with the players who are clearly not going to get any reps and see if they’d want to transfer knowing that info (which is actually a benefit to the player to know) or if they would like to be put on a medical exemption and finish their degree gratis (not dishonest, just taking advantage of the loopholes the NCAA has baked into the system, and is entirely fair to the player). If they want neither of those and want to continue practicing with no hope of playing, then we have to talk to a few of the freshmen who look to need the RS year the most and ask them to grayshirt til January (not a bad option either, as they get basically an extra RS year), and if they decline we can grant them a release. And again, this is for a MAX of 3 spots, with history telling us it’ll all be moot anyway with attrition. I expect those “you don’t have much future on field here, maybe you’d like to look elsewhere” conversations to take place after spring when the coaches have had a chance to really evaluate everyone, and I fully expect there to be a handful who take that opportunity. It’s in the players’ best interest to know where they stand, and if they want a chance to actually see the field they should be granted an unequivocal release if they want it.

Why do people think we can offer medical schollies to guys who are not medically unable to play? When have we ever done that before? I can only think of 1 med scholarship ever.

 

[iceeater1969]

/

Why do people think we can offer medical schollies to guys who are not medically unable to play? When have we ever done that before? I can only think of 1 med scholarship ever.

Think harder or// at least have some humility??

HERE ARE SOME .

STICKLER, GRAY, RATLIFFE, WHITEHEAD,WHITLEY, BRIGHAM, ROBERTS

WHITEHEAD NEVER GAINED WEIGHT - WATCHED HIM PROWL THE SIDELINES BUT NEVER GOT MUCH IF ANY TIME

NOTICE ALL THE OL MEN.
THEN THINK ABOUT THE OTHERS THAT LEFT EARLY?

PLAYING OL IN THE OPTION IS ROUGH - WITH OUR RECRUITING LIMITTIONS AND THE COMPLEXITY OF OL PLAY

CAN WE AFFORD TO HAVE GUYS FROM THAT GROUP LEAVE EARLY


YOU SHOULD CONSIDER BUYING A SEASON TICKETS.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Wow, now we’re advocating tolerating misbehavior because we committed to a scholarship with a kid when he was a Senior in HS?

I don’t care what you’re calling it, I as a leader do not tolerate BS from my team. Don’t show up and try hard, compete and contribute to the Team’s success then you’re out the door. The top performers appreciate it, the middle performers fall in line and the low performers either leave or get told to leave.

No wonder why we’re soft. Kid decides he doesn’t have the heart for it any more as a Soph but knows we don’t have the backbone to do the right thing so he gets a free ride. Amazing.

Who has advocated tolerating misbehavior here?

The conversation is about pushing kids out that want to stay simply because they don’t pan out on the 2 deep. They practice hard, attend every meeting, always on time, don’t skip class, have good character....but can’t get on the field except for mop up duty. So they are pushed out in order to open a scholly for a new recruit. This is what processing really is.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Who has advocated tolerating misbehavior here?

The conversation is about pushing kids out that want to stay simply because they don’t pan out on the 2 deep. They practice hard, attend every meeting, always on time, don’t skip class, have good character....but can’t get on the field except for mop up duty. So they are pushed out in order to open a scholly for a new recruit. This is what processing really is.

You did. You said the coach could revoke playing time but if he rescinded the scholarship you’d stop supporting the coach. A player half-asses it you tell him go loaf on the bench. I’d tell him go loaf in the dorm. On your own dime not mine.

I’ve been a pretty big fan since the day I stepped on campus. If I had any idea we had rampant loafing well my opinions would have been much different than they were. I had no idea some were carrying a bunch of deadbeats in addition to carrying a demanding academic workload. No wonder why there were locker room problems at GT & not at Navy, Southern.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

/


Think harder or// at least have some humility??

HERE ARE SOME .

STICKLER, GRAY, RATLIFFE, WHITEHEAD,WHITLEY, BRIGHAM, ROBERTS

WHITEHEAD NEVER GAINED WEIGHT - WATCHED HIM PROWL THE SIDELINES BUT NEVER GOT MUCH IF ANY TIME

NOTICE ALL THE OL MEN.
THEN THINK ABOUT THE OTHERS THAT LEFT EARLY?

PLAYING OL IN THE OPTION IS ROUGH - WITH OUR RECRUITING LIMITTIONS AND THE COMPLEXITY OF OL PLAY

CAN WE AFFORD TO HAVE GUYS FROM THAT GROUP LEAVE EARLY


YOU SHOULD CONSIDER BUYING A SEASON TICKETS.

I LIVE TOO FAR AWAY. BTW, I THINK YOUR CAPS LOCK IS STUCK.

 

[Animal02]

You did. You said the coach could revoke playing time but if he rescinded the scholarship you’d stop supporting the coach. A player half-asses it you tell him go loaf on the bench. I’d tell him go loaf in the dorm. On your own dime not mine.

I’ve been a pretty big fan since the day I stepped on campus. If I had any idea we had rampant loafing well my opinions would have been much different than they were. I had no idea some were carrying a bunch of deadbeats in addition to carrying a demanding academic workload. No wonder why there were locker room problems at GT & not at Navy, Southern.

 

[iceeater1969]

I LIVE TOO FAR AWAY. BTW, I THINK YOUR CAPS LOCK IS STUCK.

Your claim of only 1 Medical sure shows u need better preparation u put into posts.

Hope u find a way to get to games someday.

Sorry for all caps - new tablet computer had operator errors in the scale control.

My son was a walk on ol men in college. They tried to run him off. Grew past that to get scholarship. Then in final year as headed for All conference, he was injured. Some thought he was faking,but finally found cracked facets on lumbar. Yea he got a medical for last year.

 

[MidtownJacket]

Your claim of only 1 Medical sure shows u need better preparation u put into posts.

Hope u find a way to get to games someday.

Sorry for all caps - new tablet computer had operator errors in the scale control.

My son was a walk on ol men in college. They tried to run him off. Grew past that to get scholarship. Then in final year as headed for All conference, he was injured. Some thought he was faking,but finally found cracked facets on lumbar. Yea he got a medical for last year.

Sorry to hear about your son. Hope he didn’t have serious lasting pain from it after playing was done.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bobongo]

Some thought he was faking,but finally found cracked facets on lumbar.

Now there's a good example right there why coaches shouldn't be allowed to arbitrarily decide who's loafing/faking and pull scholarships. Some injuries are hard to diagnose.

 

[bobongo]

Sorry for all caps - new tablet computer had operator errors in the scale control.

"...operator errors in the scale control"? I'm going to have to remember that one.

 

[iceeater1969]

Now there's a good example right there why coaches shouldn't be allowed to arbitrarily decide who's loafing/faking and pull scholarships. Some injuries are hard to diagnose.

It's all good
The head coach stood up for him and got it scanned ( mc neese is div 2 runs on low budget) . The symptoms were very weird and hard to diagnosis. We got him to Houston surgeon 4 bigctitaium screws. (Now he is a coach.) He proudly wears the national championship ring. He was the top scout team player the year they won natty.
The coach that tried earlier to run him off was same guy that was later saying he needed to play through pain. Later he and son reconciled.

The bond players and coaches devlope is special.

I think gt strength and med staffs are first class.
It's not just good its great