Article Says BEST CASE Scenario Is 5-7

[Augusta_Jacket]

Lie or opinion? Weak example.

Arguably, the greatest rebuilding project in the history of college football was either SMU in 1989 or Marshall in 1971. I don't think what we are doing approaches those two cases.

 

[g0lftime]

Stopping and then restarting the football program at UAB wasn't easy either.

 

[BurdellJacket]

And regarding 2015, boo freaking hoo. That was Johnson’s 8th year and it’s on him that he built zero depth. Give me a break. Injuries happen to every team, yet our team folded like a cheap lawn chair. I don’t see y’all giving Collins a pass for losing his starting QB against Citadel. No, you beat on hI’m for losing that game. Y’all are the ones moving goal posts. I can promise you what Collins is building at GT is a true program that won’t fold once established unlike Johnson’s QB keep offense. Were the scores ugly last year? Sure, but so freaking what. Last season was all about playing a freshmen QB and if you want to talk injuries our defense was never health. Losing all those close games in 2015 did nothing to advance the program and was the beginn8ng of the end for Johnson. Those losses last year are just steps along the path to building a real program. And y’all can whine when the wins don’t satisfy you but all of y’all will be here when the wins pile up and we are a roster of 4 stars.

Some of you "never-Johnsoners" will never give it up. Some will not remember that, by the third game, we had lost 6 running backs and three Olines for the year.

 

[stech81]

That was due to his pro mindset of playing field position and winning with a FG. He had better talent that showed because he held us back with his approach.

Yes that was the problem he had coached like it was the NFL

 

[orientalnc]

Arguably, the greatest rebuilding project in the history of college football was either SMU in 1989 or Marshall in 1971. I don't think what we are doing approaches those two cases.

This is an interesting analogy. SMU was a repeat offender with numerous recruiting violations prior to the death penalty in 1986. Their entire 1987 season was canceled by the NCAA. When they tried to return to Southwest conference play in 1988 they could not field a team and canceled all their games. When they returned in 1989 they were a shell of a team. They had players who had never played at SMU and a brand new coach. To call it a rebuild is a bit off. It was more of a build from scratch. It is safe to say that SMU never rebuilt what they had before.

When 40 members of the Marshall team died in a plane crash in 1971 they were already in a tailspin due to their own recruiting violations. But Marshall was not playing major college football at that time.

As for UAB, they did not have to do as much of a rebuild. After their administration ended the football program, they had one season with no football, then another season with no games while they recruited and practiced. As with Marshall and SMU, the Blazers had a new coach and mostly new players. Their situation was probably better then the other two because they had a lot of positives around the program in a rapidly growing urban university. They were also not playing top level football before or immediately after the rebuild.

Comparing those programs to the 2015 GT team is silly. I think the 2019 rebuild started at GT is in the ballpark with those three programs because the times have changed. SMU was never going to be what they were before the death penalty. Marshall and UAB did not have far to go to be back to where they had been. Expectations at GT remain high and we are playing at the top level of college football. If this team wins more than five games in 2021 I believe everyone will consider this a successful year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This is an interesting analogy. SMU was a repeat offender with numerous recruiting violations prior to the death penalty in 1986. Their entire 1987 season was canceled by the NCAA. When they tried to return to Southwest conference play in 1988 they could not field a team and canceled all their games. When they returned in 1989 they were a shell of a team. They had players who had never played at SMU and a brand new coach. To call it a rebuild is a bit off. It was more of a build from scratch. It is safe to say that SMU never rebuilt what they had before.

When 40 members of the Marshall team died in a plane crash in 1971 they were already in a tailspin due to their own recruiting violations. But Marshall was not playing major college football at that time.

As for UAB, they did not have to do as much of a rebuild. After their administration ended the football program, they had one season with no football, then another season with no games while they recruited and practiced. As with Marshall and SMU, the Blazers had a new coach and mostly new players. Their situation was probably better then the other two because they had a lot of positives around the program in a rapidly growing urban university. They were also not playing top level football before or immediately after the rebuild.

Comparing those programs to the 2015 GT team is silly. I think the 2019 rebuild started at GT is in the ballpark with those three programs because the times have changed. SMU was never going to be what they were before the death penalty. Marshall and UAB did not have far to go to be back to where they had been. Expectations at GT remain high and we are playing at the top level of college football. If this team wins more than five games in 2021 I believe everyone will consider this a successful year.

Agree that everyone will feel much better about the program if we win more than five games. I think 7 wins is possible.

Everything else you said was dubious at best.

 

[orientalnc]

Agree that everyone will feel much better about the program if we win more than five games. I think 7 wins is possible.

Everything else you said was dubious at best.

Where did I get off track?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

This is an interesting analogy. SMU was a repeat offender with numerous recruiting violations prior to the death penalty in 1986. Their entire 1987 season was canceled by the NCAA. When they tried to return to Southwest conference play in 1988 they could not field a team and canceled all their games. When they returned in 1989 they were a shell of a team. They had players who had never played at SMU and a brand new coach. To call it a rebuild is a bit off. It was more of a build from scratch. It is safe to say that SMU never rebuilt what they had before.

When 40 members of the Marshall team died in a plane crash in 1971 they were already in a tailspin due to their own recruiting violations. But Marshall was not playing major college football at that time.

As for UAB, they did not have to do as much of a rebuild. After their administration ended the football program, they had one season with no football, then another season with no games while they recruited and practiced. As with Marshall and SMU, the Blazers had a new coach and mostly new players. Their situation was probably better then the other two because they had a lot of positives around the program in a rapidly growing urban university. They were also not playing top level football before or immediately after the rebuild.

Comparing those programs to the 2015 GT team is silly. I think the 2019 rebuild started at GT is in the ballpark with those three programs because the times have changed. SMU was never going to be what they were before the death penalty. Marshall and UAB did not have far to go to be back to where they had been. Expectations at GT remain high and we are playing at the top level of college football. If this team wins more than five games in 2021 I believe everyone will consider this a successful year.

If a program existed, then it's a rebuild. Period.

And I never compared it to the 2015 team. I was simply pointing out the hyperbole in the statement that ours was the 'biggest rebuilding project in college football history.' It's not. SMU backers and fans were expecting to recover within a few years. The devastation the death penalty dealt caused the NCAA to never even think abut using it again. Marshall may have been "small ball" at the time, but replacing almost an entire team in an era before easy transfers and having to petition the NCAA to allow freshman to play made it a whole lot tougher than what we are going through. Expectations of fans may or may not be realistic, but rebuilding a team is a process, and while ours is unique in the current era, and definitely the biggest of the last 20 years, both of the ones I mentioned dwarf ours.

That being said, I stand by my defense of CGC as the right coach for this job. I just don't always agree with the way he uses hyperbole.

 

[orientalnc]

If a program existed, then it's a rebuild. Period.

And I never compared it to the 2015 team. I was simply pointing out the hyperbole in the statement that ours was the 'biggest rebuilding project in college football history.' It's not. SMU backers and fans were expecting to recover within a few years. The devastation the death penalty dealt caused the NCAA to never even think abut using it again. Marshall may have been "small ball" at the time, but replacing almost an entire team in an era before easy transfers and having to petition the NCAA to allow freshman to play made it a whole lot tougher than what we are going through. Expectations of fans may or may not be realistic, but rebuilding a team is a process, and while ours is unique in the current era, and definitely the biggest of the last 20 years, both of the ones I mentioned dwarf ours.

That being said, I stand by my defense of CGC as the right coach for this job. I just don't always agree with the way he uses hyperbole.

I agree with all of this. Perhaps my emphasis made it seem like disagreement. My apologies.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Where did I get off track?

Your response to the post below clarifies. I too feel saying this was the greatest rebuild in college football history was way over the top and demonstrably untrue.

And I too am rooting for CGC.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

And he did it in his sixth season after walking into a program that had 8 NFL draft choices including2 first rounders. Collins has had 2 seasons after walking into a program that had 2 NFL position players drafted--and Collins recruited 1 of those as a grad transfer. Some people don't want to give him time.

And I'm tired of the Johnson myth. He won 74% of his games his first 2 years with Gailey's recruits. He won 54% his last 9 years, and was over .500 FBS because of 10 FCS wins in those 9 years. He left the program in worse shape than he found it when he walked off. I thank him for walking off so that we didn't have to pay a buyout,but it doesn't change the fact that the program was in worse shape in 2019 than it was in 2008. All people like you have to talk about with Johnson is 2014 as your post shows. What about all those other years that produced that .500 FBS record?

DJ Jazzy Geoff isn’t sniffing any of those highlights regardless how many draft picks we attribute to him.

 

[InsideLB]

Meh, pretty much a deadhorse thread….only loosely following but a thought on changing the culture:

• CPJ had his own culture that suited and worked for his team. Kids graduated and stayed out of trouble. Good Job.
• Collins has a vision for a different culture. Long term results aren't in, however recruits and players clearly like it/believe in it.
• Point is that changing the culture IMO does not imply existing culture was bad or toxic. It's just that new staff has different vision for what fits them and the way they want to do things. Collins can't be PJ and vice versa. Should be common sense.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Meh, pretty much a deadhorse thread….only loosely following but a thought on changing the culture:

• CPJ had his own culture that suited and worked for his team. Kids graduated and stayed out of trouble. Good Job.
• Collins has a vision for a different culture. Long term results aren't in, however recruits and players clearly like it/believe in it.
• Point is that changing the culture IMO does not imply existing culture was bad or toxic. It's just that new staff has different vision for what fits them and the way they want to do things. Collins can't be PJ and vice versa. Should be common sense.

Agree with all of this. I think the point was that sometimes the excessive hyperbole used can be interpreted as "digs" at the previous coaching staff. That being said, that ship has sailed. Like it or not the words have been said and can't be unsaid. CGC is our coach. He seems to be doing a good job in recruiting talent. As you said, while long term results are not in, there seems to be a strong belief in him in the locker room. That's crucial. Those closest to the program are very high on CGC, which indicates to me he is doing well so far. That's a major reason why we should continue to remain patient and let him continue his process. I think in a year or two we will all be very satisfied at the progress made.

 

[Skeptic]

Lie or opinion? Weak example.

Well, but Marshall comes to mind.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I can’t believe any fan still listens and believes anything any coach says. They are all salesmen who will say whatever it takes at that point in time. Y’all getting upset by Collins hyperbole is comical. Just like when Saban goes on a rant about how worried he is about playing Vandy. It’s all agenda driven. Collins has his agenda and is a master at playing it up. Just like any other coach. But in reality in sports nothing matters except on field performance. I like listening to coaches because it’s like listening in to bizzaro world like we all just didn’t see the game. So far under Collins it’s been ugly on the field. I believe we are on a solid path but don’t try and sell me on something after we just got our stuff pushed in. But it is funny to listen to.

And they all do it! I remember listening to Hewitt in post game pressers and it was like he didn’t even see the same game we did. Dude, don’t talk to me about the complex ”reasons” your team didn’t execute. Your team couldn’t even inbound the ball without a turnover.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I can’t believe any fan still listens and believes anything any coach says. They are all salesmen who will say whatever it takes at that point in time. Y’all getting upset by Collins hyperbole is comical. Just like when Saban goes on a rant about how worried he is about playing Vandy. It’s all agenda driven. Collins has his agenda and is a master at playing it up. Just like any other coach. But in reality in sports nothing matters except on field performance. I like listening to coaches because it’s like listening in to bizzaro world like we all just didn’t see the game. So far under Collins it’s been ugly on the field. I believe we are on a solid path but don’t try and sell me on something after we just got our stuff pushed in. But it is funny to listen to.

And they all do it! I remember listening to Hewitt in post game pressers and it was like he didn’t even see the same game we did. Dude, don’t talk to me about the complex ”reasons” your team didn’t execute. Your team couldn’t even inbound the ball without a turnover.

You are undoubtedly correct, and that is sad. We've come to a point where we allow people to say whatever they want to and excuse it as long as it brings about a desired result. We expect politicians, lawyers, and used car salesmen to lie in order to get their job done. Guess we can now add coaches to the list as well....

 

[orientalnc]

You are undoubtedly correct, and that is sad. We've come to a point where we allow people to say whatever they want to and excuse it as long as it brings about a desired result. We expect politicians, lawyers, and used car salesmen to lie in order to get their job done. Guess we can now add coaches to the list as well....

Read the stories in the NY Times and Washington Post about Naomi Osaka and the required press conferences at the French Open. There is another side to this that I had not considered.

 

[FlatsLander]

Meh, pretty much a deadhorse thread….only loosely following but a thought on changing the culture:

• CPJ had his own culture that suited and worked for his team. Kids graduated and stayed out of trouble. Good Job.
• Collins has a vision for a different culture. Long term results aren't in, however recruits and players clearly like it/believe in it.
• Point is that changing the culture IMO does not imply existing culture was bad or toxic. It's just that new staff has different vision for what fits them and the way they want to do things. Collins can't be PJ and vice versa. Should be common sense.

Just to re-emphasize on the culture: CGC was very unclear from the start about changing the culture from the previous staff. His word choices and tone made it sound like there was no discipline and culture at all when he got here. I remember hearing him say in a more recent presser that he was saying things were done one way previously, a way that they had a lot of success with, and now they are just doing things a different way. I don't think CGC was throwing shade at CPJ or anything like that.

 

[bke1984]

I don't see why a 5-7 prediction should make anyone upset. The staff has not beaten a team that finished with a winning record in its first two years. A sudden jump to 7-5 or better would be incredible progress, but it's not something you'd expect anyone to predict given the lack of progress in wins thus far.

It doesn't mean we can't do it or strive for it, but I just don't see why anyone would think the writer is being unreasonable.

A more interesting question to me - At what point will everyone be OK in holding the staff accountable for failure to win more games? This year? Next year?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't see why a 5-7 prediction should make anyone upset. The staff has not beaten a team that finished with a winning record in its first two years. A sudden jump to 7-5 or better would be incredible progress, but it's not something you'd expect anyone to predict given the lack of progress in wins thus far.

It doesn't mean we can't do it or strive for it, but I just don't see why anyone would think the writer is being unreasonable.

A more interesting question to me - At what point will everyone be OK in holding the staff accountable for failure to win more games? This year? Next year?

Because it wasn't a 5-7 prediction. I think a lot of people have forgotten that along the way in this thread.