Article Says BEST CASE Scenario Is 5-7

[SOWEGA Jacket]

In 2014 we started a first time starter at QB in a more complicated offense. We won 11 games. The 2014 was a heavy senior laden team, usually means success. We lost 10 starters off the offense going into 2015 due to graduation. We then suffered a fair number of injuries in 2015. 2015 and 2019 and 2020 are not comparable. After 2015 we won 9 games in 2016. Lost our starter in the Citadel game....we played 3 quarterbacks....who was the starter? Part of the problem in 2019. Above the line I guess.......2017 we were a couple of plays and very unlucky breaks from winning 7 games. 2018 we won 7 and again were close to winning 9.
I am all for Collin succeeding as I like his love of Tech. I just think that we will never recruit enough talent, particularly on defense without creating advantage through scheme. We are Vandy, Duke, Army Navy....we are not UNC. Alabama or Clemson. Our kids have to go to school.

This year is the marker. Another 3 win season and we will be looking for a new coach. 6 wins, with a hard schedule....that is a passing grade. I think for CGC to succeed he needs to get rid of CDP and shift the offense. But we shall see. It is June and we will know by mid October where we are at.

And by the way...attacking the CPJ years does you no favors...many of us liked beating UGA, Fla State, VT, and going to Orange bowls...something that we had rarely seen in 50 years at Tech.

I wasn’t attacking the Johnson years but sorry if any mention of his name brings tears to your eyes. I loved those years and am a huge Johnson fan going back to his Southern days. I’m attacking one year - 2015 where our coach in year 8 of his program laid an egg. It happens and I understand why it happened. Yet so many here don’t want to give Collins the same latitude. He inherited a team without a P5 QB and our AD decided to change systems. You guys who want to bang on Collins should really be banging on Stansbury if you really need wins that bad right now. And saying another 3 win season will get Collins fired shows you don’t see the big picture. It isn’t about wins and losses right now. Collins isn’t going anywhere for at least 3 more seasons.

This year is really year 1 because it’s the first year we have a returning QB and players recruited for this system. It’s gonna be a fun ride watching this thing progress. I have enjoyed the first two years because it’s not too often you get to watch a program being built. And I promise if Collins only wins 3 games in year 8 of his tenure I won’t be patting him on his back - and the reasons why we only win 3 won’t matter.

 

[WreckinGT]

Of course it is much harder to move up the closer to the top you get. Moving from 25, which was very good recruting to 14 moves you to the elite level. That is very hard to do. Mac Brown is an elite recruiter and has been for over 30 years. For us moving from from 50 to the 20s is excellent. Now if we can sustain that level going forward we will be able to start to win games when we play an average game. In past we had to have our "A" game to win nearly all the time as we were not the more talented team.

Even with the improved recruiting we are going to have less talent on paper than 4 teams we play every year. We will also have less talent than 2 teams we play semi regularly (ND and FSU). We are still going to need our A game and really good coaching more often than not if our goal is to eventually be better than a 6-7 win on average program.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I just think that we will never recruit enough talent, particularly on defense.

Well that's the 3 million dollar question isn't it. Which is better - a hall of fame coach with mediocre talent but a unique scheme or an up and coming coach with massively better talent and a common scheme. We will eventually find out. We are already 2 for 2 on recruiting what I would consider 'enough' talent (top 25), and we are well on our way in year 3 recruiting. In just 2 recruiting cycles, 247 says our composite talent on our roster has gone from 50th to 35. After this recruiting cycle we will be somewhere around 27th. If you are a top 25 recruiting team every year, you better win 8 games. Doesn't happen overnight, but we are accumulating the talent to do it. Now we have to do it.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Well that's the 3 million dollar question isn't it. Which is better - a hall of fame coach with mediocre talent but a unique scheme or an up and coming coach with massively better talent and a common scheme. We will eventually find out. We are already 2 for 2 on recruiting what I would consider 'enough' talent (top 25), and we are well on our way in year 3 recruiting. In just 2 recruiting cycles, 247 says our composite talent on our roster has gone from 50th to 35. After this recruiting cycle we will be somewhere around 27th. If you are a top 25 recruiting team every year, you better win 8 games. Doesn't happen overnight, but we are accumulating the talent to do it. Now we have to do it.

As I said from the very start of the CGC era, it is an experiment. You laid it out perfectly.

 

[WreckinGT]

I wasn’t attacking the Johnson years but sorry if any mention of his name brings tears to your eyes. I loved those years and am a huge Johnson fan going back to his Southern days. I’m attacking one year - 2015 where our coach in year 8 of his program laid an egg. It happens and I understand why it happened. Yet so many here don’t want to give Collins the same latitude. He inherited a team without a P5 QB and our AD decided to change systems. You guys who want to bang on Collins should really be banging on Stansbury if you really need wins that bad right now. And saying another 3 win season will get Collins fired shows you don’t see the big picture. It isn’t about wins and losses right now. Collins isn’t going anywhere for at least 3 more seasons.

This year is really year 1 because it’s the first year we have a returning QB and players recruited for this system. It’s gonna be a fun ride watching this thing progress. I have enjoyed the first two years because it’s not too often you get to watch a program being built. And I promise if Collins only wins 3 games in year 8 of his tenure I won’t be patting him on his back - and the reasons why we only win 3 won’t matter.

CPJ won 11 games, an Orange Bowl and beat UGA the year before 2015. He won 9 games and beat UGA the year after 2015. That is what gets you latitude for a 3 win season. Collins just needs to start winning.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

CPJ won 11 games, an Orange Bowl and beat UGA the year before 2015. He won 9 games and beat UGA the year after 2015. That is what gets you latitude for a 3 win season. Collins just needs to start winning.

And in 2016 when we won 9 games we won the SEC East, going 3-0. It would have been a 10-win season if not for a ridiculously stupid ending in Pittsburgh, where we were winning late until a broken up pass fell into someone's arms and he ran in for a score to tie it. Then we missed a FG to win but their attempt as time expired hit an upright and somehow went in. It was one of the more Georgia Tech endings ever.

 

[yeti92]

This year is really year 1

I'm gonna stop you right there because the mental gymnastics you are going through to justify this and paying a coach $3+million a year over 2 years for on the job training with no performance review is ridiculous.

 

[Oakland]

This is from 247Sports from a few days ago. This may have already been posted here.

Most Underrated Team In Each Conference (Late Kick Cut)

The Late Kick is LIVE Sunday & Thursday (8pm ET/7 CT) at the 247Sports YouTube page.

247sports.com

 

[Pointer]

I'm gonna stop you right there because the mental gymnastics you are going through to justify this and paying a coach $3+million a year over 2 years for on the job training with no performance review is ridiculous.

I literally laughed out loud at that.

 

[Jacketman99]

In w

In 2014 we started a first time starter at QB in a more complicated offense. We won 11 games. The 2014 was a heavy senior laden team, usually means success. We lost 10 starters off the offense going into 2015 due to graduation. We then suffered a fair number of injuries in 2015. 2015 and 2019 and 2020 are not comparable. After 2015 we won 9 games in 2016. Lost our starter in the Citadel game....we played 3 quarterbacks....who was the starter? Part of the problem in 2019. Above the line I guess.......2017 we were a couple of plays and very unlucky breaks from winning 7 games. 2018 we won 7 and again were close to winning 9.
I am all for Collin succeeding as I like his love of Tech. I just think that we will never recruit enough talent, particularly on defense without creating advantage through scheme. We are Vandy, Duke, Army Navy....we are not UNC. Alabama or Clemson. Our kids have to go to school.

This year is the marker. Another 3 win season and we will be looking for a new coach. 6 wins, with a hard schedule....that is a passing grade. I think for CGC to succeed he needs to get rid of CDP and shift the offense. But we shall see. It is June and we will know by mid October where we are at.

And by the way...attacking the CPJ years does you no favors...many of us liked beating UGA, Fla State, VT, and going to Orange bowls...something that we had rarely seen in 50 years at Tech.

In what world are we Vandy, Duke, Army, or Navy?

 

[Coloradojacket]

In w

In what world are we Vandy, Duke, Army, or Navy?

Academics. As CPJ would say, we want to be MIT Monday thru Friday and Florida State on Saturday...said back when they were good. Fact is Vandy and Duke can recruit easier than us because they have many more majors.

 

[ncjacket79]

In 2014 we started a first time starter at QB in a more complicated offense. We won 11 games. The 2014 was a heavy senior laden team, usually means success. We lost 10 starters off the offense going into 2015 due to graduation. We then suffered a fair number of injuries in 2015. 2015 and 2019 and 2020 are not comparable. After 2015 we won 9 games in 2016. Lost our starter in the Citadel game....we played 3 quarterbacks....who was the starter? Part of the problem in 2019. Above the line I guess.......2017 we were a couple of plays and very unlucky breaks from winning 7 games. 2018 we won 7 and again were close to winning 9.
I am all for Collin succeeding as I like his love of Tech. I just think that we will never recruit enough talent, particularly on defense without creating advantage through scheme. We are Vandy, Duke, Army Navy....we are not UNC. Alabama or Clemson. Our kids have to go to school.

This year is the marker. Another 3 win season and we will be looking for a new coach. 6 wins, with a hard schedule....that is a passing grade. I think for CGC to succeed he needs to get rid of CDP and shift the offense. But we shall see. It is June and we will know by mid October where we are at.

And by the way...attacking the CPJ years does you no favors...many of us liked beating UGA, Fla State, VT, and going to Orange bowls...something that we had rarely seen in 50 years at Tech.

Equating Tech football with Vandy, Duke, Army and Navy may be the most insulting thing I have ever seen a “fan” post. When did we turn into a program that sucks and has no upside? There are plenty of kids who are talented and who can pass their courses for us to be successful. We gave up when we hired CPJ because we were recruiting well under Chan. To Paul’s credit he could win without worrying much about recruiting but I bet we would have done just as well if not better had we hired Cutcliffe instead and focused on recruiting.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Equating Tech football with Vandy, Duke, Army and Navy may be the most insulting thing I have ever seen a “fan” post. When did we turn into a program that sucks and has no upside? There are plenty of kids who are talented and who can pass their courses for us to be successful. We gave up when we hired CPJ because we were recruiting well under Chan. To Paul’s credit he could win without worrying much about recruiting but I bet we would have done just as well if not better had we hired Cutcliffe instead and focused on recruiting.

I did not infer that we were their football programs. I said so in light of our academics which any fan would know will always be a constraint for Tech. We have a much smaller pool of recruits that we can go after and that is just fact. Any player at Tech or coach will tell you that. And to your reference you can recruit to a level as we did under Chan, but that level is a 7 win team. If you add better coaching you get better results, aka CPJ. But the question is can we recruit and get beyond 7 wins....

 

[swarmer]

We’ve sucked since Collins has been here. 3 wins and 3 wins. And we haven’t event been competitive in about half of our games. Nobody going to expect much from us until we do more winning than dancing. Schedule is tough. 5-7 wouldn’t be too bad if you’re being honest with yourself.

 

[ncjacket79]

I did not infer that we were their football programs. I said so in light of our academics which any fan would know will always be a constraint for Tech. We have a much smaller pool of recruits that we can go after and that is just fact. Any player at Tech or coach will tell you that. And to your reference you can recruit to a level as we did under Chan, but that level is a 7 win team. If you add better coaching you get better results, aka CPJ. But the question is can we recruit and get beyond 7 wins....

The talent Chan had was better than 7 wins. The answer is yes we can recruit and get beyond 7 wins but not if anyone in charge has the attitude you evidently do.

 

[cthenrys]

I did not infer that we were their football programs. I said so in light of our academics which any fan would know will always be a constraint for Tech. We have a much smaller pool of recruits that we can go after and that is just fact. Any player at Tech or coach will tell you that. And to your reference you can recruit to a level as we did under Chan, but that level is a 7 win team. If you add better coaching you get better results, aka CPJ. But the question is can we recruit and get beyond 7 wins....

I have no idea why so many fans struggle with this concept.

 

[Pointer]

The talent Chan had was better than 7 wins. The answer is yes we can recruit and get beyond 7 wins but not if anyone in charge has the attitude you evidently do.

Gonna need CGO type coaching and CGC is gonna need the same leniency CGO got with respect to players getting in as academic exceptions. Seems like he's getting the leniency part so far, but could also just be a ticking time bomb if players start flunking out (ala flunk gate). Could be, us being tech, we have found a way to help the student athletes get up to speed better (with respect to the academic exceptions). Hoping for latter.

 

[ncjacket79]

Gonna need CGO type coaching and CGC is gonna need the same leniency CGO got with respect to players getting in as academic exceptions. Seems like he's getting the leniency part so far, but could also just be a ticking time bomb if players start flunking out (ala flunk gate). Could be, us being tech, we have found a way to help the student athletes get up to speed better (with respect to the academic exceptions). Hoping for latter.

HS players are taking more math and thinking about school more than back in the day. Tech also understands we need to provide the support to keep kids in school and on track. We can recruit just anyone but there are plenty of guys who we can. IMO we simply have up on any of those guys in the past and did commit to helping them stay eligible.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I'm gonna stop you right there because the mental gymnastics you are going through to justify this and paying a coach $3+million a year over 2 years for on the job training with no performance review is ridiculous.

Well then you just don’t get it. What did any team outside of Bama, Clemson, or Ohio State get for their money last year? Fine, it’s year 3. It’s not like we were getting our money’s worth in Johnson’s last two seasons either. How much did we pay him the last two seasons? You can ask the same question on any coach? What did Pitt get for the millions they paid? Or Miami or VT. Heck what did UGA get for Kirbys paycheck? Everyone knew when we hired anyone other than Johnson’s hand picked successor that we’d have fans who woudn’t give the new guy a fair chance. There is no doubt Collins is moving this program in the right direction. Some of y’all just lack patience and an understanding of how poor our situation became in the later Johnson years. I’ll take a couple of three win seasons over that Minnesota game any year (And to recap that game our QB’s combined for 5 completed passes in a 24 point loss yet had 31 carries).

 

[awbuzz]

Just a theory but my crude math skills tell me that the improvement Brown showed was harder. For instance, in theory, it would be harder to go from say 11th best recruiting to 2nd best in recruiting as a product of fewer available top players that you are competing for. So the higher you go in recruiting rankings the harder it would be to make a big jump in rankings.

Not arguing, just throwing out a thesis.

This ^^^