Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

ESPNjacket

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If GT is not teaching our students that powerful people still get their way, then they are only doing part of what they need to be doing. The NCAA is no different than any other enterprise. Money looks after money. You guys are smart people, so this should be obvious. Cleveland State can be on probation, but not Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or North Carolina.

That gets repeated a lot with little evidence. For recent examples two football schools hit hardest for small violations were USC and Ohio State.

For good reason people don't understand the NCAA. Their rules make little sense and are enforced inconsistently. The search for reasons when encountered with cognitive dissonance is simply how we deal with things.
 

kg01

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That gets repeated a lot with little evidence. For recent examples two football schools hit hardest for small violations were USC and Ohio State.

For good reason people don't understand the NCAA. Their rules make little sense and are enforced inconsistently. The search for reasons when encountered with cognitive dissonance is simply how we deal with things.

Although I agree with your general premise that no one understands the uNCAA's rule enforcement, etc. I don't think @orientalnc is wrong in his assessment. The major distinction he didn't highlight is that there is a decided difference in rule enforcement in football vs basketball.

As I've said (ad nauseum for some), the uNCAA is supported by basketball revenue not football dollars. So basketball powers, as oriental suggested, largely go unpunished. Football powers? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
 

ESPNjacket

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Although I agree with your general premise that no one understands the uNCAA's rule enforcement, etc. I don't think @orientalnc is wrong in his assessment. The major distinction he didn't highlight is that there is a decided difference in rule enforcement in football vs basketball.

As I've said (ad nauseum for some), the uNCAA is supported by basketball revenue not football dollars. So basketball powers, as oriental suggested, largely go unpunished. Football powers? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

When confronted with confusion we make up reasons. It is what people do. Some believe their own made up stuff more than others. Your mileage may vary.
 

kg01

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When confronted with confusion we make up reasons. It is what people do. Some believe their own made up stuff more than others. Your mileage may vary.

leowtf.gif
 

orientalnc

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As @kg01 suggested in his comment, I was referencing basketball only. When was the last time a major basketball power was shut down? I can think of one - the University of San Francisco. I think Holy Cross shut down their own program after the point shaving scandal. I know NYU shut down their program as well, but I do not remember if the NCAA had a role in that. But all of those were before big TV money came to basketball. What have I missed?

Syracuse self imposed a one year post season ban, but the NCAA basically ignored that when the other penalties were imposed.
 

ESPNjacket

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As @kg01 suggested in his comment, I was referencing basketball only. When was the last time a major basketball power was shut down? I can think of one - the University of San Francisco. I think Holy Cross shut down their own program after the point shaving scandal. I know NYU shut down their program as well, but I do not remember if the NCAA had a role in that. But all of those were before big TV money came to basketball. What have I missed?

Syracuse self imposed a one year post season ban, but the NCAA basically ignored that when the other penalties were imposed.

You've missed the point. Why do you think any basketball program should be "shut down"? What would that fix?

If you are trying to say basketball programs are never punished that simply is untrue. To attempt to restate your premise, you are saying that the NCAA does not punish basketball programs since it started making big money from televising the tournament. This just isn't true.
 

orientalnc

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I agree that the NCAA has imposed penalties in basketball. But none that jeopardize the money generated by the top programs at the NCAA Tournament. If I missed one, please state which one(s).
 

whitegoldsphinx

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I have a hard time believing that if one or several of the "bluebloods" miss the NCAA tournament, that ratings would suffer. Filling out a bracket and watching the tourney has become an American tradition, doesn't matter who's playing. Having an upstart like Butler go deep in the tourney increases interest, it doesn't reduce it.
 

mstranahan

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I believe the networks pay the NCAA a fixed amount of money for the tourney. The networks are the ones that have to sell the ads to ensure they make money. The ads are sold as much as five years in advance, so Kentucky missing the tourney a few years ago (or UNC in 2011 or Duke in 1995 or Louisville recently) has no impact on ad revenue, NCAA revenue or anything else in the world (other than fan angst)
 

kg01

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I have a hard time believing that if one or several of the "bluebloods" miss the NCAA tournament, that ratings would suffer. Filling out a bracket and watching the tourney has become an American tradition, doesn't matter who's playing. Having an upstart like Butler go deep in the tourney increases interest, it doesn't reduce it.

You make an interesting point so I did a high-level (meaning non-granular) analysis of the NCAA's revenue using the 2017 financials.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016-17NCAAFin_FinancialStatement_20180129.pdf

rev exp Net
TV $$..............$ 821,386,522.00.......$ 560,368,946.00..........$ 261,017,576.00.....31.78%
Tournament $ $ 129,404,400.00.... $ 167,195,662.00..........$ (37,791,262.00)...-29.20%

TV money, as you said, is set. Actually is set for multiple years so that doesn't change no matter who makes the tournament. The 'exp' above represents the payout to member institutions so they presumably "keep" the $261MM.

The tournament dollars presumably represents ticket sales+ (??). The 'exp' there includes costs for all division tournaments.

So, from a high-level (meaning there are clearly more details which I'm surely leaving out) financial standpoint, where can they maximize their dollars at the end of the day? Not the TV money because that's set. It's in the revenue earned through the tournament.

Having a bunch of mid-majors advancing multiple rounds does not help them because they don't carry the numbers fan-wise that the blue bloods do. Hence, the bias in favor of blue bloods and hence why they're averse to actually punishing them IMHO.

As I've said many times over the years, the more interesting analysis of their total revenue is in when it's all earned. The figure I've heard thrown around is that over 92% of their revenue is earned in MAR-APR.
 
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dtm1997

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Ya know, there's not much tangible evidence that you and @ESPNjacket aren't the same guy. I get the same 'he hate me' vibe from both-a you. :nailbiting:

Well, I got to meet him & his friends and have a beer earlier in the year, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Great group of people.
 

kg01

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Well, I got to meet him & his friends and have a beer earlier in the year, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Great group of people.

He seems like a good dude. Just also seems to hate me. I mean who hates kg, amirite?
 

mstranahan

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NCCAT sells out every round pretty much every year. Teams, broadcast staff and sponsors get about 80% of the tickets General public enters a lottery to get the remaining upper level, awful seats at high prices. Teams selected for a sub region or region have exactly $0 impact on ticket sales.
 

orientalnc

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Normally, TV ratings determine ad rates for spots during sports events. The ratings for this year determine what the networks get for this years TV games. So,, the revenue the NCAA receives for this year is fixed. But, those ratings determine what the networks are willing to pay for future years. So, the absence of UNC or Kansas this year might not change the revenue stream until 3-4 years out. But, you better believe the NCAA knows that. You know the ratings for Duke v. UNC are going to be lot better than ODU v. UAB. And, so does the NCAA.
 
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