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Boomergump

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The current players had no representation nor bargaining power in crafting these contracts. I would argue that these contracts are examples of unconscientious dealings. The players have ZERO bargaining power and are given a take it or leave it contract (which is exactly what happens without unions that have bargaining power).
Why are we talking about representation and / or bargaining power for AMATEUR athletes? IMHO, before we even begin discussing the need for bargaining power, the definition of a college athlete needs to be established. At the present time, they are considered amateurs. At least part of the definition of that word implies that they are not compensated for playing. Once you begin establishing contracts with regards to compensation, you are talking about professional status. They have leagues for that now.
 

Techster

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Why are we talking about representation and / or bargaining power for AMATEUR athletes? IMHO, before we even begin discussing the need for bargaining power, the definition of a college athlete needs to be established. At the present time, they are considered amateurs. At least part of the definition of that word implies that they are not compensated for playing. Once you begin establishing contracts with regards to compensation, you are talking about professional status. They have leagues for that now.

Because we're past the facade of AMATUER athletes. When schools, conferences, the NCAA, companies (apparel, gaming, equipment, etc) are making BILLIONS of dollars off of the likeness of supposedly amateur athletes, and some of them can't even afford to go home for the holidays, that's a problem. Also, I think it's fair that SAs can unionize to form one voice to help them bargain. They're the ones sacrificing their bodies. Some of the NCAA rules are arcane and just plain stupid. (Seriously, read the rule about bagels and cream cheese that schools have to adhere to when hosting recruits). Or how about the one where a coach can dictate what school a kid can and can't transfer to?

There are no easy solutions to this. In my opinion, the pro leagues need to let high school kids in and form a minor league system in all sports. If kids want to go pro, then so be it. But if they elect to go to school, then they know what they're signing up for. Right now, kids in football and basketball don't have that choice. Kids in baseball and soccer do. It's when the kids don't have a choice, or that choice is dictated to them (like not being able to declare for 3 years in the NFL, or 1 year in the NBA) is where there's an issue. The ability to catch the ball or throw it, or tackle a runner is a commidity that a lot of kids can't capitalize on.

Granted, the pros are dictating the rules right now with the collective bargaining agreement, but the NCAA can work in conjunction with the pro leagues.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Because we're past the facade of AMATUER athletes. When schools, conferences, the NCAA, companies (apparel, gaming, equipment, etc) are making BILLIONS of dollars off of the likeness of supposedly amateur athletes, and some of them can't even afford to go home for the holidays, that's a problem. Also, I think it's fair that SAs can unionize to form one voice to help them bargain. They're the ones sacrificing their bodies. Some of the NCAA rules are arcane and just plain stupid. (Seriously, read the rule about bagels and cream cheese that schools have to adhere to when hosting recruits). Or how about the one where a coach can dictate what school a kid can and can't transfer to?

There are no easy solutions to this. In my opinion, the pro leagues need to let high school kids in and form a minor league system in all sports. If kids want to go pro, then so be it. But if they elect to go to school, then they know what they're signing up for. Right now, kids in football and basketball don't have that choice. Kids in baseball and soccer do. It's when the kids don't have a choice, or that choice is dictated to them (like not being able to declare for 3 years in the NFL, or 1 year in the NBA) is where there's an issue. The ability to catch the ball or throw it, or tackle a runner is a commidity that a lot of kids can't capitalize on.

Granted, the pros are dictating the rules right now with the collective bargaining agreement, but the NCAA can work in conjunction with the pro leagues.
All the "rules" you refer to, and the lack of a farm system, are all created by the NFL. The NFL could choose to create a farm system, yet they are happy with the status quo. They could allow younger players to enter the league if they want to as well. The players beef should be with the NFL not the colleges. There's nothing wrong with keeping College Football an amateur sport. As has been stated previously in this thread, there are dozens of benefits that come with being a college football scholarship athlete. In fact there are so many benefits, I'd wager a good portion of SA's would choose the current path over a minor league football contract if the option existed. A lot of baseball players do.
 

Techster

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All the "rules" you refer to, and the lack of a farm system, are all created by the NFL. The NFL could choose to create a farm system, yet they are happy with the status quo. They could allow younger players to enter the league if they want to as well. The players beef should be with the NFL not the colleges. There's nothing wrong with keeping College Football an amateur sport. As has been stated previously in this thread, there are dozens of benefits that come with being a college football scholarship athlete. In fact there are so many benefits, I'd wager a good portion of SA's would choose the current path over a minor league football contract if the option existed. A lot of baseball players do.
All the "rules" you refer to, and the lack of a farm system, are all created by the NFL. The NFL could choose to create a farm system, yet they are happy with the status quo. They could allow younger players to enter the league if they want to as well. The players beef should be with the NFL not the colleges. There's nothing wrong with keeping College Football an amateur sport. As has been stated previously in this thread, there are dozens of benefits that come with being a college football scholarship athlete. In fact there are so many benefits, I'd wager a good portion of SA's would choose the current path over a minor league football contract if the option existed. A lot of baseball players do.

Yeah, that was pretty evident when I said:

Granted, the pros are dictating the rules right now with the collective bargaining agreement
 

Animal02

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All the "rules" you refer to, and the lack of a farm system, are all created by the NFL. The NFL could choose to create a farm system, yet they are happy with the status quo. They could allow younger players to enter the league if they want to as well. The players beef should be with the NFL not the colleges. There's nothing wrong with keeping College Football an amateur sport. As has been stated previously in this thread, there are dozens of benefits that come with being a college football scholarship athlete. In fact there are so many benefits, I'd wager a good portion of SA's would choose the current path over a minor league football contract if the option existed. A lot of baseball players do.

And it extends to so many other sports.....golf, track, tennis ................
 

takethepoints

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In my job, I meet European students. The one thing that absolutely flabbergasts all of them is American major college sports. They can understand Div 3; that's sorta like what they have back home. What throws them is the way the bigs are operating a semi-professional farm system for professional sports in this country. "Why don't the players who want to go pro play on local teams? Why do they need a college education? They're wasting valuable time! They can always go to university later!" Well, there's no answer for that except that that's the way it worked out over here. At that point, they begin to shake their heads and mutter.

Can't say I blame them. Organized sports are way, way too overemphasized in this country at all levels of education. This is not inevitable. You can have a country full of sports nuts without it; look at the RSA. But, if you make a big deal out of college sports and you make big money out of it, then sooner or later you can expect the players to want their cut, beyond the payments in kind they already get. If it doesn't happen now, it'll happen sometime.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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To me, this thing is not that complicated.

Have a minor league pro system for those guys who DO NOT have any interest in college, but continue to provide a free education with all of the perks (food, books, fees, health care, etc.) to those that choose a college education, and as long as they are meeting the academic minimum requirements, guarantee the schollie for at least 4 years!!

The answer, in my opinion, is NOT to go down the path of a financial stipend or other monetary addtion to the current scholarship value, because once you go down that rabbit hole, it will NOT stop, and the game will be forever changed... I realize there are "under the table" money hand offs now, but I believe they MUST stay against the rules to maintain any level of credibility with the student-athlete paradigm. Again, my opinion.

This does not seem like rocket science.
 

Boomergump

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Purely opinion here: there is nothing wrong with people making money off amateur athletes. Nothing. Networks have made money off Olympians for decades. There are countless other cases. The simple solution to all of this, for the people who have the opposite opinion as me, is to go collectively pool your resources and start a professional league of your own that showcases younger professional athletes (or football players in the case). Done. This is a free country. There is nothing to stop you.
 

DTGT

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Purely opinion here: there is nothing wrong with people making money off amateur athletes. Nothing. Networks have made money off Olympians for decades. There are countless other cases. The simple solution to all of this, for the people who have the opposite opinion as me, is to go collectively pool your resources and start a professional league of your own that showcases younger professional athletes (or football players in the case). Done. This is a free country. There is nothing to stop you.
Olympians are allowed to be paid for use of their likeness. College Football players are not. The below is on a yearly basis from 2012. How much would Jameis Winston have been paid to endorse Visa, Nike, and others...?
1. Usain Bolt. Sprinter, Jamaica, $20m. Sponsors: Puma ($9m p.a), Visa, Gatorade, Nissan, Hublot, Virgin Media.
2. Kim Yuna. Ice skater, South Korea, $9m Sponsors: Kookmin Bank, Nike, Korean Air, Hyundai.
3. Michael Phelps. Swimmer, USA, $7m. Sponsors: Speedo, Visa, Omega, and Under Armour.
4. Liu Xiang. Sprint hurdler, China, $4m (estimate). Sponsors: Nike, Visa, Chevrolet, Yili milk, China Mobile, Coca-Cola.
5. Yelena Isinbayeva. Pole vaulter, $2.7m (estimate) Russia. Sponsors: Li Ning ($1.5m), P&G, Visa.
6. Lolo Jones. Sprint hurdler, USA, $2.7m (estimate). Sponsors: BP, Asics, Oakley, P&G, Red Bull.
7. Ryan Lochte. Swimmer, USA, $2.3m. Sponsors: Speedo, Mutual of Omaha, Gillette, Gatorade, P&G, Ralph Lauren, Nissan, AT&T.
8. Sanya Richards-Ross. Sprinter, USA, $2m. Sponsors: Nike, Inc, BP, BMW, Citibank, Amway.
9. Oscar Pistorius. Sprinter, South Africa, $2m. Sponsors: Nike, Thierry Mugler, Oakley, BT.
10. Jessica Ennis. Heptathlete, UK, $1.7m. Sponsors: Adidas BP, British Airways, Aviva, Powerade, Olay.
11. Sir Chris Hoy. Cyclist, UK, $1.5m. Sponsors: Kellogg's, Harrods, Highland Spring water, Adidas, Scottish Power.
Now that I blew a hole in that argument, what other "countless" cases are there of A making money off B without paying B and prohibiting B from getting paid?
 

dressedcheeseside

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Olympians are allowed to be paid for use of their likeness. College Football players are not. The below is on a yearly basis from 2012. How much would Jameis Winston have been paid to endorse Visa, Nike, and others...?

Now that I blew a hole in that argument, what other "countless" cases are there of A making money off B without paying B and prohibiting B from getting paid?
I agree it sucks that there's no professional football league for guys 17 to 21 yrs old. But to say college players are uncompensated for their services is wrong. The monetary value of free ride through college and all the associated expenses has been noted already. What fails to get noted is the actual value gained by the earning potential created by the "right" education. Unfortunately, most college football players overlook this to their own peril.

I wonder how GT uses the off-the-field success of former SA's in it's sales pitch. Maybe they've learned that to most blue chip recruits it falls on deaf ears.
 

Rodney Kent

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Reply to DTGT: All of these guys you mentioned are pros. They are the best of the best, and they practice harder than any football player will ever practice. They are called amatuer only because there are not pro leagues like baseball, basketball, and football. Just because the Olympic rules allow this advertisement does not mean they are not pros. They are every bit as good in their field as the pro football players in their field. It will have to be conceded that College Football players are not pros. The Olympic competitors are the very top in their field.
 

Techster

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Purely opinion here: there is nothing wrong with people making money off amateur athletes. Nothing. Networks have made money off Olympians for decades. There are countless other cases. The simple solution to all of this, for the people who have the opposite opinion as me, is to go collectively pool your resources and start a professional league of your own that showcases younger professional athletes (or football players in the case). Done. This is a free country. There is nothing to stop you.

There is a reason the Olympic model was blown to shreds and the Olympians can profit off their name and accomplishments.

I'm not saying NCAA and schools/conferences should pay the athletes. I'm just saying athletes deserve the right to profit in college from their accomplishments (advertising, endorsements, autographs, etc.) within parameters.
 

dressedcheeseside

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There is a reason the Olympic model was blown to shreds and the Olympians can profit off their name and accomplishments.

I'm not saying NCAA and schools/conferences should pay the athletes. I'm just saying athletes deserve the right to profit in college from their accomplishments (advertising, endorsements, autographs, etc.) within parameters.
That opens up a huge can of worms that would be exploited by certain programs. "Hey blue chip qb, come to my school and maximize your endorsements, hint, hint...."
 

Boomergump

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Olympians are allowed to be paid for use of their likeness. College Football players are not. The below is on a yearly basis from 2012. How much would Jameis Winston have been paid to endorse Visa, Nike, and others...?

Now that I blew a hole in that argument, what other "countless" cases are there of A making money off B without paying B and prohibiting B from getting paid?
How many olympic athletes over the years have never been paid? You have a list of those who have (I don't challenge its accuracy), although not directly by those who have made the most profit off of their publication. I am pretty sure the televising networks have always reaped some pretty hefty dollars for advertising during olympic broadcasts even though 90+% of athletes don't make a dime. The truth is that the vast majority of Olympic athletes have not been paid over the years. If you want countless other cases, they are not hard to find. How about the network broadcasts of the US amateur golf championship? ESPN broadcasts of college baseball? ESPN broadcasts of HS football?
 

RamblinCharger

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I played golf in high school and participated in some public tournaments with a friend that was REALLY good at golf. We won the best ball tournament and won money, he decided not to take it, so it wouldn't mess up his amateur status so that he could play college golf. I took it because I'm an 8 handicap, and obviously wouldn't be playing college golf. He made that decision, which is exactly the same decision other college athletes make
 

RamblinCharger

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I played golf in high school and participated in some public tournaments with a friend that was REALLY good at golf. We won a few best ball tournaments and won money or gift cards, and he decided not to take it, so it wouldn't mess up his amateur status so that he could play college golf. I took it because I'm an 8 handicap, and obviously wouldn't be playing college golf. He made that decision, which is exactly the same decision other college athletes make
 

flounder

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There are plenty of things that need to be addressed in college football besides paying players. I'm not sure why we're jumping right in to that discussion.
 
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