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IEEEWreck

IEEEWreck

Ramblin' Wreck
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656
Boomergump said:
Why are we talking about representation and / or bargaining power for AMATEUR athletes? IMHO, before we even begin discussing the need for bargaining power, the definition of a college athlete needs to be established. At the present time, they are considered amateurs. At least part of the definition of that word implies that they are not compensated for playing. Once you begin establishing contracts with regards to compensation, you are talking about professional status. They have leagues for that now.
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It's not that strange to see aspects of school/athlete bargaining other than compensation as important. In fact, the issues actually raised by these organizations have nothing to do with compensation (even if they do ultimately lead in that direction.) There are lots and lots of contracts and aspects of contract law that have nothing to do with employment, and arguments like 'not pro, no pay' miss the point and shut down thinking without engaging the meat of the issue. On that point, there's some real silliness going on with reciting the 'unions used to be good, but now they kill America because SOCIALISM.' Stop a moment. Unions used to be needed? So are players' bargaining powers more akin to UAW workers today or company town miners? Think on that.

Let's be real here- there's all kinds of shady stuff going on with respect to players and scholarships that are utterly unworthy of institutions of higher education. We don't do them because we value our integrity. Dodd was right and the SEC was crooked. How can you maintain that schools regularly participate in activities that people of integrity shun, but at the same time say that there's nothing suspect about creating contracts including those same activities? I should prefer that schools only enter into honorable agreements, but that's not the world we live in. Failing that, giving players some bargaining power forces schools to offer a more honest deal.

Shouldn't we, as Tech fans, advocate for a system that actually punishes bad behavior on the part of certain schools if not for the sake of the student athletes, then because GT regularly gets shafted for refusing those very same practices?
 
awbuzz

awbuzz

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Wish the NCAA had the fortitude to allow schools to offer the 1, 2 or 4 year guaranteed scholarships for athletes (assuming they don't fail out). Obvious the factory schools didn't like it and had the option withdrawn.

That would allow the kid to pick the best offer on the table.
 

Rodney Kent

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IEEEWreck: We already haves an organization to punish bad behavior for schools breaking the rules. The problem is that they tend to favor the factories and punish those who are innocent or near innocent. Do we need another organization to do the same thing. Unions are in place to make money for themselves and to support socialistic activities. The schools who have the most money can then buy off the athletic union officials and they will be the ones who benefit. You will then double the benefit to the factory schools with the most money. Keep unions out of athletics period.
 
IEEEWreck

IEEEWreck

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
656
Rodney Kent said:
IEEEWreck: We already haves an organization to punish bad behavior for schools breaking the rules. The problem is that they tend to favor the factories and punish those who are innocent or near innocent. Do we need another organization to do the same thing. Unions are in place to make money for themselves and to support socialistic activities. The schools who have the most money can then buy off the athletic union officials and they will be the ones who benefit. You will then double the benefit to the factory schools with the most money. Keep unions out of athletics period.
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I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. I mean, there are certainly unions that are strongly socialist, and socialism and trade unions are historically strongly linked, but at least in the United States the government (especially the federal government) did not consistently side with corporate owners. Unions in the US never moved beyond working condition and compensation demands. All of which is kind of irrelevant, because there are a lot of different kinds of unions out there.

Or do you see socialist tendencies in the NFL, MLB, and NBA? Because all those players have union representation.
 
biggtfan

biggtfan

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RamblinCharger said:
That would be an opinion though and he has no factual information to back it up so that comment is irrelevant.
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I was referring to comments like this: "Huh? FDR, unions, socialism... Hand in hand man. Unions have been a huge part of tearing America apart." And the one that said unions are for lazy people. I think the tone was mean-spirited and way too simplistic. Unions are far from perfect but they can be good for protecting people from abuse.
 
IEEEWreck

IEEEWreck

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656
Full disclosure: I'm a EE and Econ double major, so I have very little interest in politics and a nerd's devotion to technical correctness. But yeah, no- unions in the US remained fundamentally committed to capitalist structures. Socialist political views were only ever a minority (actually strongest in the NE and the deep south, believe it or not) and more or less reached their high water mark in the 1930's. By the 50's people with socialist views were expelled from the few positions they had in unions, notably from the AFL-CIO.

And... yeah. In many ways US unions started down a path to decline when they focused on getting increasingly bureaucratic working rules and elaborate pension systems. That would be while their socialist union counterparts in Great Britain focused on output control of nationalized industries.

So yeah, unless you feel consistent in saying 'those bastions of socialism in the US: auto manufacturing and baseball' you have to apply some sort of analysis to what the union's goals and composition is. In this case, the things that greater bargaining power could bring players (consistent medical care beyond their use to the team, less restrictive conditions for scholarships, and longer terms for offers, at least immediately) seem like things that would benefit the sport as a whole and decrease the penalty Tech pays for having integrity.
 
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