Anthem Protests

[northgajacket]

Which is why it's a farce. That protest this weekend had nothing to do with Kap or it's original intent.

It was a sheep mentality.

 

[RonJohn]

Which is why it's a farce. That protest this weekend had nothing to do with Kap or it's original intent.

As I have stated, I don't put a lot of faith in Kaepernick's reasons stated for originally sitting. After he made his statements and others started kneeling, I still haven't heard any requests or resolutions from or to the protests. If they are protesting racial inequalities and police brutalities, what would they like to see? Better education in poor minority areas? More discussion about racial relations? More transparency in investigations into police shootings? I think some of the protesters don't really know what they are protesting for, and I haven't heard anyone describe how they would like to move forward.

I agree that the protest this past weekend seemed pointless. I heard statements from several players and owners. They all seemed rather vague. Most referenced some kind of unity, but I never understood what was supposed to be united. I said in an earlier post, it appeared to be just a multi-billion dollar company trying to react to someone who was attempting to organize a boycott of their product.

I think that overall, the argument has gotten to where "protesters" are fighting "patriots". If you are in one of those groups you are required to fight against the other group. It has gotten to where I don't hear much about working to improve race relations, and I don't hear much about supporting the military and first responders. I hear a lot of "you're bad", "no you're bad", "no you're bad", "no you're bad". I don't see a way for the "protesters" to make gains toward race relations. I don't see a way for the "patriots" to make gains toward respect for military/FR. It seems to be to be a lot of third graders on the playground.

 

[Squints]

He wasn't valuable on the trade block and they knew it

The Denver Broncos spent weeks trying to trade for him. The defending Super Bowl champions were looking to trade for him to be their starting QB after Manning's retirement. There was an agreement in place between the two teams if Kaepernick agreed to restructure his contract. He declined to do so, so it didn't happen.

Let's look at this logically for a second here. You are Colin Kaepernick's agent. It is late August. Your client is not happy and clearly does not want to be on the 49ers. You are actively trying to get him to go to another team. His contract for the 2016 season is already guaranteed as of mid April 2016. If he is cut then he is still paid his entire 2016 salary of (I think) ~$12 million. You know there is at least one team that without a doubt wants your client and others that are still looking for potential QB upgrades (Texans, Browns, & Jets off the top of my head). If your client is cut he can sign with any of these teams and it will cost them very little. If anything you probably want him to get cut yesterday.

Now you could make the argument that his agent wanted him to avoid getting cut so he didn't lose the salaries of the 2017-2020 seasons of the contract. But that doesn't hold much water for me when a few weeks later Kap and his agent went to the front office and asked for them to add an opt-out after the 2016 season (in exchange for waiving the injury guarantees of the contract) allowing him to leave after the season and forgo the rest of the money. Which he did. So IMO that end of contract money can't have mattered all that much if they offered to give it up willingly shortly after this whole fiasco started.

So your response to this situation is to come up with a scheme that makes your client a lightning rod of controversy where the two most likely outcomes are spend a year with an organization you're miserable with and give up the only potential benefit a few weeks later or be unemployed for a year with no chance to showcase your client's ability to play? What kind of game plan is that?

he has a reputation for being a diva. I'm sorry you believe everything you hear.

Well that's an ironic couple of sentences to have back to back.

 

[collegeballfan]

I agree with the sentiment in both of these posts. However, there is the complicating factor that they are doing it at their place of employment. If their employer is okay with it, then no big deal. But the employer does have the right to not want to have to deal with it. Like lets say a player held up a 'Free Tibet' banner during the National Anthem before every game. The employer has the total and complete right to not want that distraction. So if they're okay with it, then so be it. But if someone wants to protest, they have a wealth of options available to them outside of work. They are celebrities after all - they could organize marches, gatherings, fund raising events, and so on.

Good point! Completely agree on the employer having a decision if protesting done at the place of work. The Constitution's guarantee of freedoms puts limits only on government.

Having said that, I consider the showing of disrespect to the country and Constitution by discouraging the exercise of those Constitutional rights to be a much more serious
problem than disrespect to the flag or anthem. The flag and anthem are symbols, the Constitution is the real heart of our governmental system.

 

[Squints]

Another thing about his protests being the reason that he doesn't have a job. Aren't the owners that are supposedly blacklisting him the same owners that were on the field yesterday with the current players locking arms?

I never said the owners were blacklisting him. That implies collusion between a group of owners. It's not the same thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[northgajacket]

The Denver Broncos spent weeks trying to trade for him. The defending Super Bowl champions were looking to trade for him to be their starting QB after Manning's retirement. There was an agreement in place between the two teams if Kaepernick agreed to restructure his contract. He declined to do so, so it didn't happen.

Let's look at this logically for a second here. You are Colin Kaepernick's agent. It is late August. Your client is not happy and clearly does not want to be on the 49ers. You are actively trying to get him to go to another team. His contract for the 2016 season is already guaranteed as of mid April 2016. If he is cut then he is still paid his entire 2016 salary of (I think) ~$12 million. You know there is at least one team that without a doubt wants your client and others that are still looking for potential QB upgrades (Texans, Browns, & Jets off the top of my head). If your client is cut he can sign with any of these teams and it will cost them very little. If anything you probably want him to get cut yesterday.

Now you could make the argument that his agent wanted him to avoid getting cut so he didn't lose the salaries of the 2017-2020 seasons of the contract. But that doesn't hold much water for me when a few weeks later Kap and his agent went to the front office and asked for them to add an opt-out after the 2016 season (in exchange for waiving the injury guarantees of the contract) allowing him to leave after the season and forgo the rest of the money. Which he did. So IMO that end of contract money can't have mattered all that much if they offered to give it up willingly shortly after this whole fiasco started.

So your response to this situation is to come up with a scheme that makes your client a lightning rod of controversy where the two most likely outcomes are spend a year with an organization you're miserable with and give up the only potential benefit a few weeks later or be unemployed for a year with no chance to showcase your client's ability to play? What kind of game plan is that?



Well that's an ironic couple of sentences to have back to back.

Drink the kool-aid . I don't care.
I believe what I believe. Not what the talking heads say on television.
Elway also drafted Tebow FWIW.

 

[RonJohn]

I never said the owners were blacklisting him. That implies collusion between a group of owners. It's not the same thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Then just replace blacklisting with "refusing to hire him because of his protests". The question still applies. I was not trying to trick you with semantics. That is the very thing that I dislike. Trying to win an argument without even addressing the actual issues the argument is about.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[northgajacket]

The Denver Broncos spent weeks trying to trade for him. The defending Super Bowl champions were looking to trade for him to be their starting QB after Manning's retirement. There was an agreement in place between the two teams if Kaepernick agreed to restructure his contract. He declined to do so, so it didn't happen.

Let's look at this logically for a second here. You are Colin Kaepernick's agent. It is late August. Your client is not happy and clearly does not want to be on the 49ers. You are actively trying to get him to go to another team. His contract for the 2016 season is already guaranteed as of mid April 2016. If he is cut then he is still paid his entire 2016 salary of (I think) ~$12 million. You know there is at least one team that without a doubt wants your client and others that are still looking for potential QB upgrades (Texans, Browns, & Jets off the top of my head). If your client is cut he can sign with any of these teams and it will cost them very little. If anything you probably want him to get cut yesterday.

Now you could make the argument that his agent wanted him to avoid getting cut so he didn't lose the salaries of the 2017-2020 seasons of the contract. But that doesn't hold much water for me when a few weeks later Kap and his agent went to the front office and asked for them to add an opt-out after the 2016 season (in exchange for waiving the injury guarantees of the contract) allowing him to leave after the season and forgo the rest of the money. Which he did. So IMO that end of contract money can't have mattered all that much if they offered to give it up willingly shortly after this whole fiasco started.

So your response to this situation is to come up with a scheme that makes your client a lightning rod of controversy where the two most likely outcomes are spend a year with an organization you're miserable with and give up the only potential benefit a few weeks later or be unemployed for a year with no chance to showcase your client's ability to play? What kind of game plan is that?



Well that's an ironic couple of sentences to have back to back.

Okay. Still doesn't negate the fact. Sorry you are butt-hurt over this, but the fact is if he was so valuable then a team would sign him in a free agent class that was laughable at best. Even with the baggage.

 

[Squints]

Then just replace blacklisting with "refusing to hire him because of his protests". The question still applies. I was not trying to trick you with semantics. That is the very thing that I dislike. Trying to win an argument without even addressing the actual issues the argument is about.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

As far as I know Shahid Khan of the Jaguars was the only owner on the field interlocking arms with his players. So we're talking about one guy here. And I obviously don't know anything specifically but I'd guess no there as the top of their QB depth chart has been filled since Bortles was drafted and neither him nor Chad Henne have a similar playing style to Kap. Was there anyone else? But, and this is something you touched on in another post that I agree with, that the protests that happened on Sunday happpened for a different reason than Kap's stated reasons. The meaning of both events here is really getting tossed around and jumbled up.

And again I didn't say owners were refusing to hire Kaepernick because of his protests. They're not the singular cause. I feel like you're trying to pin me in that corner. I said they were a part of his difficulty to find a job. We already know this. You can call it semantics if you want but that's a pretty big distinction in my eyes. And I'm not sure why we're even having an argument right now. That wasn't my intent when I first quoted you.

 

[Squints]

Okay. Still doesn't negate the fact. Sorry you are butt-hurt over this, but the fact is if he was so valuable then a team would sign him in a free agent class that was laughable at best. Even with the baggage.

Oh please. I'm not butt-hurt about Colin Kaepernick. I was ride or die with Alex Smith. Kap's not on the 49ers anymore so I don't give a **** if he plays another snap in the NFL or not. Worlds going to keep turning either way.

Drink the kool-aid . I don't care.
I believe what I believe. Not what the talking heads say on television.
Elway also drafted Tebow FWIW.

"This guy doesn't think what I think! He must be brainwashed!"

Btw Tebow was drafted in 2010. John Elway wasn't in the Broncos front office until 2011. So FWIW Elway did not, in fact, draft Tebow. But hey man believe what you believe.

 

[northgajacket]

Oh please. I'm not butt-hurt about Colin Kaepernick. I was ride or die with Alex Smith. Kap's not on the 49ers anymore so I don't give a **** if he plays another snap in the NFL or not. Worlds going to keep turning either way.



"This guy doesn't think what I think! He must be brainwashed!"

Btw Tebow was drafted in 2010. John Elway wasn't in the Broncos front office until 2011. So FWIW Elway did not, in fact, draft Tebow. But hey man believe what you believe.

I don't really care. I made a statement based on a theory I had. You got all defensive about a guy who could care less about you. I never said it was fact. I'm sorry my posts have bothered you so much that you feel the need to be defensive instead of just stating "that's your opinion".

 

[AE 87]

Which is why the protest is founded actually. While police brutality and murder is a point of contention it's not the only point.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Could you spell it out please?

 

[RonJohn]

As far as I know Shahid Khan of the Jaguars was the only owner on the field interlocking arms with his players. So we're talking about one guy here. And I obviously don't know anything specifically but I'd guess no there as the top of their QB depth chart has been filled since Bortles was drafted and neither him nor Chad Henne have a similar playing style to Kap. Was there anyone else? But, and this is something you touched on in another post that I agree with, that the protests that happened on Sunday happpened for a different reason than Kap's stated reasons. The meaning of both events here is really getting tossed around and jumbled up.

There were other owners who interlocked arms including Arthur Blank. Jerry Jones actually knelt before the Cowboy's game last night. The meaning being jumbled up is correct. People are protesting, but there isn't a well defined cause or path to resolution. What I have been saying is that I don't think there was a clear cause or path to resolution all the way back to Kaepernick's first statement to the media.

And again I didn't say owners were refusing to hire Kaepernick because of his protests. They're not the singular cause. I feel like you're trying to pin me in that corner. I said they were a part of his difficulty to find a job. We already know this. You can call it semantics if you want but that's a pretty big distinction in my eyes. And I'm not sure why we're even having an argument right now. That wasn't my intent when I first quoted you.

I was only using the owners' involvement in protests this weekend to support the argument that he isn't unfairly being left out purely because of the protests. I would agree that a PR issue does cause issues. However, if he were a 6'5" pocket passer with a 68% completion percentage, the PR issue wouldn't be an issue at all. If you are an athletic player who might could help but only marginally fit the system, then any baggage or PR issues are going to hurt your chances.

 

[Milwaukee]

Some background info on Villanueva: he's a former Ranger and I believe he earned a Bronze Star. His jersey sales are skyrocketing.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Good point! Completely agree on the employer having a decision if protesting done at the place of work. The Constitution's guarantee of freedoms puts limits only on government.

Having said that, I consider the showing of disrespect to the country and Constitution by discouraging the exercise of those Constitutional rights to be a much more serious
problem than disrespect to the flag or anthem. The flag and anthem are symbols, the Constitution is the real heart of our governmental system.

What I am about to say I am not accusing you of, so please don't take it that way. But a lot of these folks believe that the United States was founded by a bunch of essentially white supremacists who literally built the country on the backs of slaves (which I believe I could successfully defend in a debate by the way if I wanted to). So they believe therefore the Constitution is null and void and should be torn up and we start over. The Constitution wasn't the problem, its basic humans. That's why the Constitution is so powerful - that your rights are endowed by our creator and not by man. So I don't know what you would replace it with. Anyway, there are a great many people who believe our founding was fatally flawed and we need to tear it all up and start over.

 

[kg01]

Some background info on Villanueva: he's a former Ranger and I believe he earned a Bronze Star. His jersey sales are skyrocketing.

Heh, he came out later to say he just made a mistake. Wasn't taking some patriotic stand. So, jersey returns ... skyrocketing?

 

[potatohead]

Didn't Tim tebow go to his knee during the anthem to protest legal abortion?

Where's the outrage?

This story was a non issue, players, athletes, celebrities have used their platform to protest forever. That is until our dear leader spun it up again, is this what winning feels like?

 

[Milwaukee]

Heh, he came out later to say he just made a mistake. Wasn't taking some patriotic stand. So, jersey returns ... skyrocketing?

The announcement he made to media was only because of Tomlin's reaction, that was pretty evident. He's still getting overwhelming support, while Tomlin and the Steelers organization are getting annihilated.

 

[kg01]

The announcement he made to media was only because of Tomlin's reaction, that was pretty evident. He's still getting overwhelming support, while Tomlin and the Steelers organization are getting annihilated.

Is he a blazing patriot or not then? Take a stand, or don't.

 

[Milwaukee]

Is he a blazing patriot or not then? Take a stand, or don't.

I'm confused. Do you want to argue? If so, why?