Ahmaud Arbery murder case

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ramblinwreckguru said:
Riddle me this batman. Does a sane person really run toward guys with guns? I have a really difficult time saying that I would even consider attempting that.
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How long have you been black? How many situations have you been in that because of your skin color you feel like you were treated differently? If you were a black guy and 2 white rednecks holding guns stopped in the middle of the street jumped out with guns pointed at you from inside 10 feet away threatened to shoot you, what would you do? I hope I would have noticed them like that in the road before I got too close and slowed down to see what was going on. I would have turned and jumped and ran into the woods if I had to. But I haven't been black for very much of my life, so I'm not going to second guess him in that split second situation when he emerged from the other side of the truck with the guy standing there what I would have done in his shoes.
 
armeck

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ramblinwreckguru said:
Riddle me this batman. Does a sane person really run toward guys with guns? I have a really difficult time saying that I would even consider attempting that.
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Don't do this, dude. This is a really bad take. The guy was fighting for his life and you are now casting more negativity on him by insinuating he's mentally ill?

Here's another take: Riddle me this, batman. Who just runs away like a coward instead of standing up and fighting for their life? Who does that?
 
GT_EE78

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RonJohn said:
When have I claimed that?

You really seem to be wanting to argue more about personality, how good/bad the person who was shot was, and vague concepts instead of discussing whether the McMichaels retrieving firearms and aggressively pursuing a man in public was legal. I guess if you can't argue facts (or at least stay focused on the facts in question), then you decide to obfuscate the facts or denigrate the people you disagree with.
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Sorry, just joking about Epidemiologist.
Nope-i haven't said anything about personality or if someone is good/bad. I just try to state facts without denigrating anyone (except for the media who deserve it).
.
I will agree with you about one thing. That we don't currently know the details of how Probable Cause was acquired.
but we do know 3 things about that.
1) An experienced DA has said that they had it. (that letter is likely admissable)
2)elder McMichael worked 30 yrs in law enforcement.(he probably understands PC)
3) There is overwhelming evidence that Arbery committed a crime and was fleeing. (so they had plenty of opportunity to know that)
 

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armeck said:
Don't do this, dude. This is a really bad take. The guy was fighting for his life and you are now casting more negativity on him by insinuating he's mentally ill?

Here's another take: Riddle me this, batman. Who just runs away like a coward instead of standing up and fighting for their life? Who does that?
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This white boy would gladly run away if there were 2 armed black men in the middle of the road I was running down.
 
GT_EE78

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armeck said:
Don't do this, dude. This is a really bad take. The guy was fighting for his life and you are now casting more negativity on him by insinuating he's mentally ill?

Here's another take: Riddle me this, batman. Who just runs away like a coward instead of standing up and fighting for their life? Who does that?
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mentally ill - it's in a DA's report so it's reaonable to wonder ....
Who just runs away - someone who wants to evade police. It's not like he hasn't done this before.
 
GT_EE78

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RonJohn said:
Plus he stated that assault with a deadly weapon(Pointing a gun) is a misdemeanor in Georgia law, which is factually incorrect.
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O.C.G.A. 16-11-102 (2010)
“A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.”
 
RonJohn

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GT_EE78 said:
Sorry, just joking about Epidemiologist.
Nope-i haven't said anything about personality or if someone is good/bad. I just try to state facts without denigrating anyone (except for the media who deserve it).
.
I will agree with you about one thing. That we don't currently know the details of how Probable Cause was acquired.
but we do know 3 things about that.
1) An experienced DA has said that they had it. (that letter is likely admissable)
2)elder McMichael worked 30 yrs in law enforcement.(he probably understands PC)
3) There is overwhelming evidence that Arbery committed a crime and was fleeing. (so they had plenty of opportunity to know that)
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1) That DA is now under investigation and has been admonished by the national association of DAs for injecting himself further into a case which he admitted a personal connection and recused himself from.
2) The elder McMichael worked for a DA that has some extremely disturbing things in her history as a DA. EDIT: And she is also under investigation for her handling of the case. When she recused herself, she can't project her ideas about the case to the next DA.
3) I haven't seen "overwhelming" evidence that he committed a felony. Even if he did commit a felony, they didn't personally witness said felony, which is a requirement for citizen's arrest. They also used overwhelming force to enact the citizen's arrest, which isn't allowed from Georgia court cases relating to citizen's arrest.
 

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RonJohn said:
1) That DA is now under investigation and has been admonished by the national association of DAs for injecting himself further into a case which he admitted a personal connection and recused himself from.
2) The elder McMichael worked for a DA that has some extremely disturbing things in her history as a DA. EDIT: And she is also under investigation for her handling of the case. When she recused herself, she can't project her ideas about the case to the next DA.
3) I haven't seen "overwhelming" evidence that he committed a felony. Even if he did commit a felony, they didn't personally witness said felony, which is a requirement for citizen's arrest. They also used overwhelming force to enact the citizen's arrest, which isn't allowed from Georgia court cases relating to citizen's arrest.
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Until the folks who also tried to sweep this under the rug are held accountable too, we’re only halfway there with the arrests.
 
RonJohn

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armeck said:
Read for yourselves guys:
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...D80fljiOM_71dUI1l6n2KpzwdGCQ9U77emhVZ0#page=1
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So according to the statements that the McMichaels made to the police directly after the incident, while they were armed, they were shouting at Arbery to "STOP". Would any of the people who are saying that McMichael was casually strolling in the road with his shotgun when a person violently attacked him casually ignore people with guns yelling at them? Or, would they be in fear for their lives because men with guns were yelling at them?

I will overlook that statement that they pulled up beside Arbery even though the video shows that Arbery ran by the truck. Sequence of events can get very muddled after an intense event.
 
RonJohn

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ramblinwreckguru said:
Touche!

However, Arbery wasn't exactly fighting for his freedom here. His best option was not to engage these men.
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How? According to the statement they made to police, they had chased him, then another person in another car had blocked him from another direction, then they intentionally cut him off in the other direction. Who was harassing who? The video was shot by the person in the other car. They intended to trap him like a rat in a cage.(I just watched the Dark Knight) It is possible that he felt as if he was backed into a corner and reacted.
 
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RonJohn

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GT_EE78 said:
O.C.G.A. 16-11-102 (2010)
“A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.”
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O.C.G.A. 16-5-20 (2010)
16-5-20. Simple assault
(a) A person commits the offense of simple assault when he or she either:
........
(2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury.


GA Code § 16-5-21 (2017)
(a) A person commits the offense of aggravated assault when he or she assaults:
......
(2) With a deadly weapon or with any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury;

So pointing a gun at another person without placing that person in a position of a reasonable fear of receiving injury is a misdemeanor. Causing someone to fear for their safety while having a gun, whether pointed or not, is a felony.
 

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RonJohn said:
So according to the statements that the McMichaels made to the police directly after the incident, while they were armed, they were shouting at Arbery to "STOP". Would any of the people who are saying that McMichael was casually strolling in the road with his shotgun when a person violently attacked him casually ignore people with guns yelling at them? Or, would they be in fear for their lives because men with guns were yelling at them?

I will overlook that statement that they pulled up beside Arbery even though the video shows that Arbery ran by the truck. Sequence of events can get very muddled after an intense event.
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Hybole much? Absolutely noone is claiming the rediculous scenario you just posted.
 
RonJohn

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ramblinwreckguru said:
Hybole much? Absolutely noone is claiming the rediculous scenario you just posted.
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People are saying that McMichael was attacked while he was legally in possession of a shotgun. Those people are ignoring the fact that he was aggressively attempting to stop Arbery. Was he peacefully walking on the street with his shotgun, or was he using the shotgun in an attempt to stop Arbery?
 

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RonJohn said:
People are saying that McMichael was attacked while he was legally in possession of a shotgun. Those people are ignoring the fact that he was aggressively attempting to stop Arbery. Was he peacefully walking on the street with his shotgun, or was he using the shotgun in an attempt to stop Arbery?
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Of course he was trying to stop Arbery. Was that ever in question?
 
RonJohn

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ramblinwreckguru said:
Of course he was trying to stop Arbery. Was that ever in question?
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Is it in question if he was aggressively trying to stop Arbery? Is it in question if he was trying to cause Arbery to fear and submit?

Using a weapon to cause another person to fear for their lives is assault. It doesn't matter if the gun is discharged. It doesn't matter if the gun is pointed. It is assault as soon as it is used to create fear in another person.
 
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