Adam Gotsis arrested

[Whiskey_Clear]

So, a high number of women go out of their way to get stigmatized, called liars, and have uncomfortable situations with their friends and family just so they can have a minuscule chance of any penalty to the man they’re accusing?
If anything, the odds are strongly against a woman bringing this accusation forward. When one is brought forward, it should be taken seriously


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes it should. But you may be granting too much weight to accusers.

I get where you are coming from but I don’t think you see the whole picture. I have friends that spent quite a bit of time investigating SVU (special victims - including sex assault) cases. I’ve seen a little and heard a lot.

Sometimes false allegations are made. Like I said before, fairly frequently. So why? Here are some examples. The wife that got a “happy ending” at a legit massage spa, then felt guilty about it, told her husband in guilt but claimed she was assaulted. Husband called police and investigation began. Only for the wife to finally admit to PD that she had consented to the contact but told her husband half the story out of guilt.

Other such scenarios, adulterous wife caught but claims rape rather than admit adultery. The daughter that doesn’t want to admit sex activity to parents so claims assault, etc.

It happens. So often that it has been coined “regret sex” by investigators.

That doesn’t mean real rapes don’t occur. They do and are heinous. And SVU investigators I know live to take those scum down. But they also fairly frequently deal with regret sex. More so than legit rapes according to them.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I certainly think more advancement would come of the #metoo stuff if people would start reporting these within an acceptable timeframe to actually investigate. I get someone may feel more threatened when they aren't away from the climate but it doesn't accomplish anything WRT the #metoo movement when you wait 5 years.

It’s not unusual or unreasonable for a victim of rape to refuse or delay coming forward to accuse. Due to shame / embarrassment/ self blame. Part of what makes solving these fairly difficult sometimes.

But 5 years is quite a long time.

 

[motynes]

Probable cause is an extremely low standard. Basically if you have one persons uncorroborated sworn statement of a crime, then you have PC. It’s basically “if there is some evidence a crime is committed” then there is PC to arrest someone. Some judges hold prosecutors and police to a higher standard, but that is really contrary to the current state of the law regarding PC.

I’ve been doing criminal defense and civil rights litigation for 13 years and have prosecuted part time for the last five. My wife was a prosecutor for 12 years. Probably cause to issue an arrest warrant is just a low bar.

Getting a conviction on these types of cases is hard. I know nothing about the facts, but the length of time does nobody any favors and makes things much harder.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Now, now. I think the recent #MeToo movement is based on two things. First and foremost, most women have to really screw their courage to the sticking point to allege a rape. The almost automatic reaction is that "she must have led him on" or something like that. Women of my generation (i.e. the women who accused Roy Moore) rightly fear the damage that will do to their lives and that hasn't changed too much since. This is ye olde double standard at work. Second, I believe it is true that many people swallow abuses of various types to keep their jobs and advance their careers. Women - and not just in Hollywood - are particularly susceptible to a proposed quid pro quo involving sexual advances. This is egregious and should not happen. But to blame women for it isn't just and depending on ye olde double standard to keep safe from their complaints isn't right either.

I don't know what'll happen with Gotsis. My guess is that the charge is too old to stand up to an initial review. That doesn't mean it didn't happen just as the young woman involved said or that his denial isn't true; it may, however, be impossible to prove at this point. But this isn't a matter of salacious sexual rumors. These kinds of thing happen all the time and they shouldn't. It's dishonorable.

To be clear, I did not blame women.

I said the social media part started by Hollywood types who were hypocrites hurt the cause

Over there, they were enablers actively supporting known criminals. They also make movies glorifying depraved behavior.

 

[iceeater1969]

Shouldn't this be in a. Fulmer cup thread?
We could debate if it counts against this years team or against other team.
If it's their we could readily compare some folks pious casting off stones at others .
Being close to the Baylor program , this brings back bad feelings. It started as accusations/ denials. The total faith in the staff and players went down his as "empowered by the first accuser other accusers came forward".

I totally trust Coach but Tstan needs to get on this issue with more than a true or not true look into this one event.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Shouldn't this be in a. Fulmer cup thread?
We could debate if it counts against this years team or against other team.
If it's their we could readily compare some folks pious casting off stones at others .
Being close to the Baylor program , this brings back bad feelings. It started as accusations/ denials. The total faith in the staff and players went down his as "empowered by the first accuser other accusers came forward".

I totally trust Coach but Tstan needs to get on this issue with more than a true or not true look into this one event.

Huh? Overreaction much? Bit early for this.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Probable cause is an extremely low standard. Basically if you have one persons uncorroborated sworn statement of a crime, then you have PC. It’s basically “if there is some evidence a crime is committed” then there is PC to arrest someone. Some judges hold prosecutors and police to a higher standard, but that is really contrary to the current state of the law regarding PC.

I’ve been doing criminal defense and civil rights litigation for 13 years and have prosecuted part time for the last five. My wife was a prosecutor for 12 years. Probably cause to issue an arrest warrant is just a low bar.

Getting a conviction on these types of cases is hard. I know nothing about the facts, but the length of time does nobody any favors and makes things much harder.

To attempt some clarification of what PC is. PC to arrest...”when facts and circumstances within an officer’s knowledge would lead a reasonable person to believe that the suspect did, is, or is about to commit a crime. PC must come from specific facts and circumstances rather than simply from the officer’s hunch or suspicion.”

A much lower bar than “beyond a reasonable doubt” but quite a bit higher than “one persons uncorroborated sworn statement of a crime.”

 

[takethepoints]

To be clear, I did not blame women.

I said the social media part started by Hollywood types who were hypocrites hurt the cause

Over there, they were enablers actively supporting known criminals. They also make movies glorifying depraved behavior.

I didn't think you did.

I'm not sure I've got your second point, but, while a lot of guys in Hollywood knew about Weinstein, the most the women got was the usual warnings to avoid being alone with him. And, of course, he was careful with the big female stars. It's true that outing him would have been the right thing for some of his victims to do, but they had careers in mind and knew that his influence could ruin them. So they moved on and warned others. This is standard behavior in the face of a power you can't (or don't think) you can challenge. That's why the social media side of this is so important. You can call this hypocrisy if you like, but that means all of us are hypocrites.

As for glorifying depraved behavior: well, you could make movies about regular behavior, but that would be boring. I could wish there would never be another Fifty Shades of Gray or Fury or Deep Throat made, but that would mean, not to put too fine a point on it, no art. Or, at least, that's how I see it.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I didn't think you did.

I'm not sure I've got your second point, but, while a lot of guys in Hollywood knew about Weinstein, the most the women got was the usual warnings to avoid being alone with him. And, of course, he was careful with the big female stars. It's true that outing him would have been the right thing for some of his victims to do, but they had careers in mind and knew that his influence could ruin them. So they moved on and warned others. This is standard behavior in the face of a power you can't (or don't think) you can challenge. That's why the social media side of this is so important. You can call this hypocrisy if you like, but that means all of us are hypocrites.

As for glorifying depraved behavior: well, you could make movies about regular behavior, but that would be boring. I could wish there would never be another Fifty Shades of Gray or Fury or Deep Throat made, but that would mean, not to put too fine a point on it, no art. Or, at least, that's how I see it.

I think there is a difference between a woman sexually harassed on the job who feels she has to put up with it to make her career...and Hollywood actresses. These people stood up and gave speeches at awards shows showering praise upon people like Harvey Weinstein. When guys who were abusers won awards, people cheered violently. Just listen to the volume of the applause and cheering when Woody Allen wins awards. Known abusers. Its one thing to be too scared to report an assault. Its another to go out of your way celebrating the bad guys. That's my opinion on it. May sound a bit like splitting hairs, but its hard for me to equate multi-millionaires who use their public platforms to celebrate abusers with working women around the country who have no voice.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I do not know either Adam or his accuser. I am not a woman. I have never been sexually assaulted. I have never been raped. I have no idea what this woman has experienced the past five years. I don't believe there is any way anyone can even begin to understand what it feels like to be violated in this manner, or what the psychological aftermath would be unless they've experienced it.

We have all heard of situations where grown men are confronting sexual predators who abused them when they were young. The psychological scarring is going to be different from person to person, so someone coming forth 5 years later does not cast doubt on the accusation in my opinion. As others have said, it may make it harder to prosecute, but without knowing the circumstances, it's not really fair to expect someone to come forward immediately. There are 10's to 100's of scenarios that could explain a 5 year delay in reporting.

All this being said, I hope that Adam did not do this and that the accuser gets help for whatever reason she went to the police. If Adam did do this, then he should be prosecuted because rape tends to be a serial offense. It's about control, not about sex.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I just read an article via KenS on AJC from yesterday. It says the 2 of them met at a party, he took her back to his house, and raped her. That's the allegation, and he maintains his innocence. Also, the investigation started a month ago, so that implies to me the police found enough information to justify an arrest and it wasn't like she contacted them and they said 'okay' and went out and got him. I highly doubt he forced her to leave the party without anybody noticing. So likely she agreed to go back to his house and then changed her mind. She has every right of course to do that. But its just another datapoint supporting a story the USA Today posted last year - more teenagers think its bad to have a cracked iPhone screen than think its bad to hook up on a first date. Its probably a pretty sound rule of thumb to not go back to someone's home the first night you meet at a party. Its probably also an even riskier move if that person is 6'5" and 300 pounds! Speculation is of course terrible to do, but after reading that article, it seems pretty clear to me that the two of them did have sex - she says it was forced and he says not. If that speculation is correct, that's just a sad situation that never needed to happen.

 

[jwsavhGT]

Actually you're implying more than the article states. The article stated they met through a mutual friend and attended a party together on March 9, 2013. Nothing about that indicates this was the first time they met. The article also states that he first became aware of the accusations last month and his attorney indicated they have "proactively cooperated with all aspects of the investigation".

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Actually you're implying more than the article states. The article stated they met through a mutual friend and attended a party together on March 9, 2013. Nothing about that indicates this was the first time they met. The article also states that he first became aware of the accusations last month and his attorney indicated they have "proactively cooperated with all aspects of the investigation".

Oh, thanks for the correction. Don't know how I misread that...other than being an Engineer instead of an English major.

EDIT: The way the article is worded, it could imply they met through a mutual friend on that day for the first time. Who knows I guess. Is that the fault of a misplaced gerund or something, LOL.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

If they both agree intercourse occurred... One says forced, the other says consensual....where the heck does the PC come from? No sex assault exam is possible after...I’d say 7 days at the very most. Quite a bit less than 5 years.

Did someone witness it occur? Or video evidence? That’s about what it would take at this point.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

If they both agree intercourse occurred... One says forced, the other says consensual....where the heck does the PC come from? No sex assault exam is possible after...I’d say 7 days at the very most. Quite a bit less than 5 years.

Did someone witness it occur? Or video evidence? That’s about what it would take at this point.

Or tecent text, email, voice conversations between them.

 

[Blumpkin Souffle]

It's possible there was a rape kit done at the time and only now is it tied to Adam because she is pressing charges. This site gives a little more info

Typically, the kit will remain unopened until the investigating agency requests the kit be analyzed by the crime lab. A few cities and states automatically test all sexual assault kits, as long as the crime has been reported to police.
Once the evidence is ready to be analyzed, forensic scientists at the crime lab will open the SAK and examine the evidence.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

It's possible there was a rape kit done at the time and only now is it tied to Adam because she is pressing charges. This site gives a little more info

Incredibly unlikely.

 

[Blumpkin Souffle]

Incredibly unlikely.

Oh right, I forgot you’ve watched a lot of Law & Order SVU and are an expert.

 

[33jacket]

Some felonies the statutes are long. In ny its like 30 years. In GA its around 20 iirc

Nowadays we defend the accusers holistically in the media and public and automatically convict the accused. Its unfortunate, but iiwii

He could have done it. He may not have. She could be lying. She may not be. Let the process sort out; generally it will and does so fairly. Unfortunately in public not so much. Adams track record seems as though this is not close to in character. But. Who knows.

Pastner is being accused too. Lol. Yet not arrested. So. Its an odd thing.

The fact gt knows nothing about this tells me there wasnt even a complaint or whisper about this from the accuser 5 years ago. So. Hmmmm.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Oh right, I forgot you’ve watched a lot of Law & Order SVU and are an expert.

Think about it - SHE KNEW HIM. It wasn’t some random attack and they only now could make a DNA match. She knew exactly who he was. She only now reported it. Your supposition doesn’t match what has been reported in the news.