ACC v Ga Tech

[FredJacket]

Starting a new thread on this. From the 2017 Football Schedule thread, some have asserted the ACC does (and has for some time) had it out for Ga Tech. This doesn't make any sense to me. I cannot think of any motive the conference would have to see Tech or any school in the conference fail (or not succeed). The assertions are not backed with any evidence or examples.

I understand there must be politics surrounding the "powers" in the conference and Ga Tech could be less influential in that regard; but I have no idea. I also buy (to a limited extent) that UNC & Duke as charter members and their geographic location probably get some benefit/influence... on things like football scheduling. However, those kinds of things do not come close to reaching a point where Ga Tech is actively disadvantaged by the conference.

To suggest the ACC is applying real significant obstacles to Tech's success (across all sports... is that the assertion?) doesn't hold water. The simple fact that Ga Tech sits in a HUGE market...means the ACC would be cutting off its nose to spite its face.

I'm curious if anyone has insight on statements or actions to support a claim the ACC 'doesn't like Ga Tech' or does things to ensure other schools have an advantage. Something other than the football scheduling thing too, please. That topic has been covered. On that... I'm willing to accept Ga Tech seems to be getting the short end of that deal; but I don't see it as them targeting Tech.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't think it ultimately matters if the ACC has it out for Tech, if its just other teams asking successfully for bye weeks before they play us, or if its just a bad computer model that is shuffling the cards. The bottom line is that we keep getting the shaft on scheduling. That's the bottom line - however we end up here, the ACC lets it fly. So ultimately even if its just their incompetence to not notice, the ball stops with them.

 

[ClydeBrick]

Football MNC's:

GT - 4

Tobacco Road schools - 0

They hate us 'cause they ain't us.

 

[Yoda]

Whatever PJ says is what I believe.

 

[IronJacket7]

It's pretty obvious they have it out for us. If you don't think so you may need to check yo self.

 

[FredJacket]

It's pretty obvious they have it out for us. If you don't think so you may need to check yo self.

Thank you, @IronJacket7. I have checked myself...whatever that means. I must say it is not obvious to me. I'm asking someone to make it obvious...or close to it for me. Why would the ACC not want us to succeed or make it more difficult for us to? I cannot think of any reason... but I'm willing to accept the football scheduling this is a bad deal for us. I'm wondering why, though?

 

[GlennW]

From an AJC Article:

"It will be the second year in a row that the Yellow Jackets will face more teams after their open dates than any team in the league. (They had three in 2016 also.) Other teams have taken their turns with that extra challenge – Virginia Tech and Wake Forest had three each in 2015, Florida State had four in 2014 and Clemson, Duke and FSU all had three in 2013. Consider this, though – since his first season, in 2008, only one team has had at least one game every season in which it faced a team coming off a bye. That Team is GA Tech."

http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2017/01/25/does-paul-johnsons-complaint-have-merit/

 

[eetech]

In the past 5 years or so, GT has played the most opponents with a bye week fore our game in the ACC. This seems to indicate some sort of conspiracy. However, we aren't alone because FSU is actually tied with us in this department.

What seems most likely to me is that since the ACC doesn't allow teams to directly request byes before a specific opponent, teams may have indirect ways of making requests which increase the odds of getting a bye before a specific team. So Coastal teams have been stacking their requests hoping to get byes before us, while Atlantic teams have been doing the same to FSU (which until the last couple of years was the team to beat in the Atlantic).

The net effect has been that both these teams have ended up with more lopsided schedules.

I really doubt it's a conspiracy with the ACC out to get us. If it was the Tobacco Road mafia I cannot see why they would be out to get us as opposed to VPI, or FSU or Clemson. If those teams are protected because of their alumni base then why isn't the ACC out to get Pitt, or Syracuse, or UVA?

I highly doubt we just happen to be the only team in the Goldilocks zone for ACC conspiracy.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

In the past 5 years or so, GT has played the most opponents with a bye week fore our game in the ACC. This seems to indicate some sort of conspiracy. However, we aren't alone because FSU is actually tied with us in this department.

What seems most likely to me is that since the ACC doesn't allow teams to directly request byes before a specific opponent, teams may have indirect ways of making requests which increase the odds of getting a bye before a specific team. So Coastal teams have been stacking their requests hoping to get byes before us, while Atlantic teams have been doing the same to FSU (which until the last couple of years was the team to beat in the Atlantic).

The net effect has been that both these teams have ended up with more lopsided schedules.

I really doubt it's a conspiracy with the ACC out to get us. If it was the Tobacco Road mafia I cannot see why they would be out to get us as opposed to VPI, or FSU or Clemson. If those teams are protected because of their alumni base then why isn't the ACC out to get Pitt, or Syracuse, or UVA?

I highly doubt we just happen to be the only team in the Goldilocks zone for ACC conspiracy.

It doesn't have to matter why it happens. It only needs to matter that it does happen.

 

[PBR549]

It doesn't have to matter why it happens. It only needs to matter that it does happen.

Exactly, whether conspiracy or incompetence!

 

[FredJacket]

Exactly, whether conspiracy or incompetence!

No argument... and to this point the only explanation is incompetence. CPJ's complaints should be addressed by the ACC...seems he's working hard on it.

To me, it does matter why...that's the reason I created this thread...to see if there is may be any legitimacy to the conspiracy assertions. So far... no.

 

[IronJacket7]

Thank you, @IronJacket7. I cannot think of any reason... but I'm willing to accept the football scheduling this is a bad deal for us. I'm wondering why, though?

So you don't feel the ACC has it out for us? Even though this has been happening over the last 5-7 seasons? You think the BYE weeks before us are just happenstance. No. You are wondering why. I will tell you why. The most logical and concise conclusion is usually the best. The ACC wants to give BYE weeks to several teams before us. They are not out to get us? Seems very logical that they are not trying to help us in any way. We also had to play Clemson at Clemson two year in a row just a couple of seasons ago. Not trying to be rude but don't make it more difficult than it is. I think the answer is there and you are digging for an explanation you are not going to get. The ACC doesn't like us or the commissioner doesn't like us. Whatever or whoever the schedule is biased. Don't wast your time going further.

 

[IronJacket7]

No argument... and to this point the only explanation is incompetence. CPJ's complaints should be addressed by the ACC...seems he's working hard on it.

To me, it does matter why...that's the reason I created this thread...to see if there is may be any legitimacy to the conspiracy assertions. So far... no.

What do you mean legitimacy? You want evidence? Good luck

 

[IronJacket7]

@FredJacket

Here is CPJ direct quote: “It has to be it. It happens every year. It has to be intentional. There’s no other explanation for it.”

Your quote: "I don't see it as them targeting Tech."

Why don't you go sit down with CPJ. Maybe yall can figure this thing out.

 

[Madison Grant]

Clemson is getting its way, and has been able to request a bye week before us because they've played in the National Championship game as the conference rep the last 2 years. The ACC doesn't want the conference getting shut out of the playoffs, and we have a history of upsetting Clemson's apple cart. Duke and Carolina always get pampered by the Tobacco Road mafia. I think it's less plotting against us, and more favoritism toward certain teams.

 

[FredJacket]

So you don't feel the ACC has it out for us? Even though this has been happening over the last 5-7 seasons? You think the BYE weeks before us are just happenstance. No. You are wondering why. I will tell you why. The most logical and concise conclusion is usually the best. The ACC wants to give BYE weeks to several teams before us. They are not out to get us? Seems very logical that they are not trying to help us in any way. We also had to play Clemson at Clemson two year in a row just a couple of seasons ago. Not trying to be rude but don't make it more difficult than it is. I think the answer is there and you are digging for an explanation you are not going to get. The ACC doesn't like us or the commissioner doesn't like us. Whatever or whoever the schedule is biased. Don't wast your time going further.

It is my understanding the Clemson thing was a result of OUR request to no longer have Clemson and Va Tech both on road in same season. The ACC 'fixed' that for us by giving us Clemson on road 2 years in a row. I guess you could say....SEE there you go, they screwed us again; but it was our request and that solution makes sense to me. The irony there is AD Rad orchestrated all that and went to Clemson to enjoy Ga Tech visiting 2 years in a row.

Does the ACC have it out for us? I do not know. I'm hoping to see more evidence they DO have it out for us before I conclude they do. While CPJ, me, and the majority of this board are up in arms over the football scheduling thing... I have read plenty of analysis concluding having a bye week is no significant advantage. Perhaps ACC schedulers lean that way.
http://cfbtrivia.com/blog/the-advan...a-bye-week-with-records-coming-off-bye-weeks/

I definitely don't think the bye weeks are just happenstance... that evidence seems overwhelming.

I don't really feel I'm wasting my time or overly bothered by the whole thing. Just asking the question. I'm here participating because I like it. I think I like you too, @IronJacket7

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

It is my understanding the Clemson thing was a result of OUR request to no longer have Clemson and Va Tech both on road in same season. The ACC 'fixed' that for us by giving us Clemson on road 2 years in a row. I guess you could say....SEE there you go, they screwed us again; but it was our request and that solution makes sense to me. The irony there is AD Rad orchestrated all that and went to Clemson to enjoy Ga Tech visiting 2 years in a row.

Does the ACC have it out for us? I do not know. I'm hoping to see more evidence they DO have it out for us before I conclude they do. While CPJ, me, and the majority of this board are up in arms over the football scheduling thing... I have read plenty of analysis concluding having a bye week is no significant advantage. Perhaps ACC schedulers lean that way.
http://cfbtrivia.com/blog/the-advan...a-bye-week-with-records-coming-off-bye-weeks/

I definitely don't think the bye weeks are just happenstance... that evidence seems overwhelming.

I don't really feel I'm wasting my time or overly bothered by the whole thing. Just asking the question. I'm here participating because I like it. I think I like you too, @IronJacket7

Yes, Tech requested a switch with the Clemson games, but there were TWO solutions available, the other being two successive years in Atlanta, rather than at Clemson. Why was the "at Clemson" option used? We had a similar situation with VT forced on us earlier, with two successive years at VT, and this was not the result of any request on our part.

 

[MikeJackets]

The treatment GT gets from the ACC is why South Carolina left the ACC in 1971.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

"I have read plenty of analysis concluding having a bye week is no significant advantage. Perhaps ACC schedulers lean that way."

I am not sure the studies I've seen (including that one) are doing their research the right way. Did you see my posts on another thread about this? I went back the last 5 years, and when Tech had a bye week in ACC play but the other team didn't (3 times), we went 3-0. We went 13-8 in the other ACC games in those 3 years otherwise. (ie, we were 16-8 overall those 3 years in ACC play) That is an undeniable difference, 3-0 versus 13-8.

I also went back and looked at how many times our ACC opponent had a bye week before playing us when we didn't. There were 7 of those. (So already I hope you see the trend, 7 versus 3. Also there were a few times where we both had a bye week.) We went 3-4 those 7 games. Those 7 games were exclusively in 2016, 2014, 2013, and 2012. Our record in ACC play outside of those 7 games was 17-8. Again, a significant difference - our winning percentage was 58% higher (0.680 versus 0.428).

I'm not going to spend hours digging into those other studies further to try and unravel what they may have missed or erred on. All I care right now is the inequity for Tech. And the historical numbers are way beyond undeniable.

 

[FredJacket]

"I have read plenty of analysis concluding having a bye week is no significant advantage. Perhaps ACC schedulers lean that way."

I am not sure the studies I've seen (including that one) are doing their research the right way. Did you see my posts on another thread about this? I went back the last 5 years, and when Tech had a bye week in ACC play but the other team didn't (3 times), we went 3-0. We went 13-8 in the other ACC in those 3 years otherwise. (ie, we were 16-8 overall those 3 years in ACC play) That is an undeniable difference, 3-0 versus 13-8.

I also went back and looked at how many times our ACC opponent had a bye week before playing us when we didn't. There were 7 of those. (So already I hope you see the trend, 7 versus 3. Also there were a few times where we both had a bye week.) We went 3-4 those 7 games. Those 7 games were exclusively in 2016, 2014, 2013, and 2012. Our record in ACC play outside of those 7 games was 17-8. Again, a significant difference - our winning percentage was 58% higher (0.680 versus 0.428).

I'm not going to spend hours digging into those other studies further to try and unravel what they may have missed or erred on. All I care right now is the inequity for Tech. And the historical numbers are way beyond undeniable.

Yeah... don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing out these studies exist and maybe the ACC would agree with their conclusions. I happen to think our unique offense makes this type of analysis basically useless as it applies to Ga Tech. Your numbers are evidence to support my "feeling" that teams with extra time to prepare for Ga Tech have an advantage over teams that do not. Basically... the advantage of healing from injuries and practicing to simulate going against our scheme FAR outweigh any negative impact of getting out of your weekly rhythm.