ACC Discussion

[CuseJacket]

SOS is 16.

Yes I know, you actually have to win some of those for that to matter, I agree.

Buffalo is considered a quadrant 1 win for the Orange, or at least it was until recently. Also of note, 4 of their 7 ACC wins are Pitt twice, Wake and BC. I haven’t seen them as a dance team for a long time and yet on the blind resume tests on Twitter I pick them almost every time

Buffalo is no longer a quadrant 1 win.

Syracuse played the RPI game well this year with no major clunkers on the schedule. Akin to Wake Forest last year.

The quadrant system is dumb, fwiw. VT beating Duke at home and @ UVA are quadrant 1. Also quadrant 1? Some MAC team or other grabbing a road win @ Tulsa, @ Toledo or @ UCF because those teams have an RPI of 75 or better.

 

[up state jacket]

What a ending in the Cavs Cards game.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[YlJacket]

I feel for the kid that walked on the inbound play. I will put that on the coach who should have been yelling just throw it to the other end of the court. All he had to do.

Someone stay with him and remove his belt and all sharp objects

 

[RamblinRed]

Bad coaching at the end of that game.

first you half to make sure your inbounder knows he can't run the baseline.
Second, with a second left you should never be inbounding under your basket, you should be sending most of the team deep and them putting a high inbounds pass down the court, sort of like a hail mary. You don't actually care if your team catches it, all you care is that someone touches it in the front court, at that point it is game over.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yep, UVA scored 8 points in the last 15 seconds. That equates to 1280 points in a full game.

Poor University-6.

 

[Peacone36]

Adel is an upper classman. The Ref clearly signals that he must stay stationary. Should the coach have made sure he knew? sure. But I put that on the player.

Joel Berry doesn't make that mistake. Grayson Allen might, but they wouldnt call him for it.

 

[CuseJacket]

So with the ACC regular season complete now, how about a comparison of Syracuse vs. Louisville?

• Resume (@bwelbo)
• Eye test (@Peacone36)
• Or just go straight Orange homer (@kg01)

I think both are out as of now. That means less $$$ for GT.

 

[Peacone36]

Honestly I wouldn’t take either. I’d take Notre Dame. My official stance on at large teams is don’t take a team that can’t make the Sweet 16. I think both Syracuse and Louisville are 1 and dones, 2 and dones at best. Notre Dame could make the elite 8 on the high end, though right now they don’t have the resume.

I honestly think the ACC only really deserves 7-8 tops....

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Honestly I wouldn’t take either. I’d take Notre Dame. My official stance on at large teams is don’t take a team that can’t make the Sweet 16. I think both Syracuse and Louisville are 1 and dones, 2 and dones at best. Notre Dame could make the elite 8 on the high end, though right now they don’t have the resume.

I honestly think the ACC only really deserves 7-8 tops....

Syracuse has lost to all the bottom teams in the ACC. They beat Clemson yesterday, but shot worse than 30%. I would still look at 8 or maybe 9 teams. 9 finished at 0.500 or better in the conference. 8 finished with at least 20 wins. Louisville at 19-12 is a tough take as a 9th team. At 20-11 and a win over Virginia, I’d have taken all 9. But what a collapse.

The ACC has been underrated all year with only 4 ranked teams, so the committee might decide to take 7 and leave out FSU and Louisville at 9-9 in conference play. I wouldn’t doubt that at all. I still remember the year that 4 teams tied for first place in the ACC at 12-4 (1997-ish?) and nobody else made the tournament.

 

[Peacone36]

I think FSU is pretty safe now. If the noles don’t go you can only have 6 ACC teams. If FSU doesn’t go how do you justify letting in Louisville and Syracuse? You wouldn’t and there aren’t only going to be 6 ACC teams.

 

[Peacone36]

7, I meant 7

 

[RamblinRed]

i think both FSU and NCSU basically locked up spots yesterday.

L'ville and Syracuse are the 2 interesting cases.
The l'ville vs FSU game is quite big for L'ville. I don't think L'ville can get in with a loss there.
For Syracuse they have to beat Pitt obviously. Whether they then need to beat VT is an interesting question.

I think ACC gets 8, whether it can get more is down to how Syracuse and L'ville play in Brooklyn this week.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

i think both FSU and NCSU basically locked up spots yesterday.

L'ville and Syracuse are the 2 interesting cases.
The l'ville vs FSU game is quite big for L'ville. I don't think L'ville can get in with a loss there.
For Syracuse they have to beat Pitt obviously. Whether they then need to beat VT is an interesting question.

I think ACC gets 8, whether it can get more is down to how Syracuse and L'ville play in Brooklyn this week.

Yea I tend to agree. With 15 teams and arguably the best conference year in and year out, all 7 teams that are over 0.500 and have 20 wins seem like locks to me, regardless of the ACC Tourney first round. The committee wouldn’t have to argue or defend their position there.

Whoever wins the Lville/FSU game is also guaranteed to have 20 wins, and they’ll be 10-9 in conference play. I think that’s 8 guaranteed teams there. Lville and FSU are #34/35 on KenPom, #43/47 in RPI. I think the winner finishes high enough to get in. The loser to me will be a huge risk to not get in.

Syracuse is sub-0.500 in the ACC, only has like 1 quality win, lost by freaking 15 to Boston College last week, lost to GT, Wake, etc, and is #38/51 in RPI/KenPom. I wouldn’t take them unless they win twice in the ACC Tourney. But that’s just me.

 

[CuseJacket]

Yea I tend to agree. With 15 teams and arguably the best conference year in and year out, all 7 teams that are over 0.500 and have 20 wins seem like locks to me, regardless of the ACC Tourney first round. The committee wouldn’t have to argue or defend their position there.

Whoever wins the Lville/FSU game is also guaranteed to have 20 wins, and they’ll be 10-9 in conference play. I think that’s 8 guaranteed teams there. Lville and FSU are #34/35 on KenPom, #43/47 in RPI. I think the winner finishes high enough to get in. The loser to me will be a huge risk to not get in.

Syracuse is sub-0.500 in the ACC, only has like 1 quality win, lost by freaking 15 to Boston College last week, lost to GT, Wake, etc, and is #38/51 in RPI/KenPom. I wouldn’t take them unless they win twice in the ACC Tourney. But that’s just me.

I'm not sure you or many have looked at Syracuse's or Louisville's resume, which is one reason I brought up the comparison.

In ACC play

• Syracuse beat: vs. VT, @Louisville, @Miami and vs. Clemson
• Louisville beat: @FSU, vs. VT, @ VT

Syracuse played a better non-conference schedule, and they got 3 RPI top 100 wins. Louisville has 0 top 100 non-conference wins.

Which team is more capable of beating good teams? Personal stance is that every bubble team has proven they can lose, so it's about who you can beat.

Again, I don't think either is or should be in as of now. But it looks to me like 'Cuse should be ahead of 'Ville in the pecking order.

 

[Peacone36]

I'm not sure you or many have looked at Syracuse's or Louisville's resume, which is one reason I brought up the comparison.

In ACC play

• Syracuse beat: vs. VT, @Louisville, @Miami and vs. Clemson
• Louisville beat: @FSU, vs. VT, @ VT

Syracuse played a better non-conference schedule, and they got 3 RPI top 100 wins. Louisville has 0 top 100 non-conference wins.

Which team is more capable of beating good teams? Personal stance is that every bubble team has proven they can lose, so it's about who you can beat.

Again, I don't think either is or should be in as of now. But it looks to me like 'Cuse should be ahead of 'Ville in the pecking order.

I agree with that last part. Cuse > Louisville. If I were picking (many are thankful I am not) it would look like this:

FSU
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Louisville

 

[ChasonBaller]

They are both getting in.

 

[orientalnc]

The Jay Coleman's Dance Card has Cuse in and UL as the first team out. They are my go to source for predictions about the tournament field.

http://www.unf.edu/~jcoleman/dance.htm#SAS.

 

[forensicbuzz]

ACC with 10 teams in once GT wins the tourney!!!!

 

[AE 87]

ORANGE is definately the WRONG shade of GOLD.

The palate cleanser is when neither GT nor Cuse is at issue.

Did you see our game @ Clemson? It was inconveniently called on Okogie for his 3rd foul. Also saw it called on Grayson Allen @ VT on Monday night.
...

Can any sincere Tech Basketball fan mention Grayson Allen in parallel to Josh Okogie? The Jacket faithful cry, "No!"

Now, consider this:

Welp, I'll dive into this with orange colored glasses.

First, I acknowledge Syracuse looks like crap offensively and is a marginal bubble team. Every bubble team every year has proven they can lose to pretty much anyone, and it comes down to big wins. Syracuse doesn't have any marquee wins. Not going to argue whether they should or should not be in.

That said.....

GT's best wins: vs. Miami, vs. ND w/out Colson
'Cuse's best wins: @Miami, @Louisville, vs. VT

Are you suggesting we count GT's win vs. Miami as a win over a ranked team, whereas Syracuse's was not?

Why do we ignore the last 3 weeks? Because GT now has fewer scholarship players available (yet still more than Syracuse)?

GT beat Syracuse at home. On that same date, imo, GT loses to Syracuse on a neutral court or @ Syracuse. Would have been my prediction at that time and now.

The Orange will be a pick 'em at home vs. Clemson this Saturday. Clemson is still overrated, and Syracuse is much better at home. But I actually don't think winning that will get them in. I think they need 1-2 more in the ACC tournament, where they have literally never won a game.

I wish the quadrant system was used last year, and 'Cuse would have gotten in. Instead wins at home vs. Duke, UVA, FSU, and Miami were ignored as they didn't have a good road win. I don't think 'Cuse would have done much with a bid anyway, but I didn't think so in 2016 either.

What was the purpose of this post? To defend Cuse against the hyperbolic suggestion that a few weeks ago an argument could have been made that GT was looking like more of a tourney team than Cuse as part of a qualifier against RPI?

Can't we just agree that someone who cites a Duke slimeball positively and gets defensive AGAINST even a hyperbolic hypothetical in favor of GT is not really a GT basketball fan?

... But, seriously, I thank him for his football coverage.