ACC Discussion

[mstranahan]

rules you rarely see enforced any more.... traveling, palming, three seconds, T for hanging on the rim

inconsistently enforced.. pretty much everything else

 

[CuseJacket]

Or why its no longer a travel when the player snatches the ball and slides across the floor....

Yea, that's one I don't get. Also noticing that college is starting to allow the 3-4 step dunks on breakaways. Only a matter of time before we go full NBA and allow multiple pivot feet.

Also enjoy watching a game with my dad, who I think would call palming the ball on 98% of possessions. That's one that's morphed over time as well.

 

[CuseJacket]

rules you rarely see enforced any more.... traveling, palming, three seconds, T for hanging on the rim

inconsistently enforced.. pretty much everything else

Beat me to it.

 

[YlJacket]

Yea, that's one I don't get. Also noticing that college is starting to allow the 3-4 step dunks on breakaways. Only a matter of time before we go full NBA and allow multiple pivot feet.

Also enjoy watching a game with my dad, who I think would call palming the ball on 98% of possessions. That's one that's morphed over time as well.

The ability of players to really manipulate the ball, hesitate and change directions coupled with the rule changes on hand checking/bumping make defensive oriented teams like UVA even more impressive in what they accomplish. It is harder than hell now to stay in front of a guard with a "good" handle.

 

[RamblinRed]

if they actually called palming i'm not sure most guards could bring the ball up the court unguarded.

Also, traveling is basically not called anymore.
The finish to the UNC-Miami game last night was thrilling, though Miami should have won without the excitement given they lead most of the way. After Berry tied it with 4 seconds lieft Newton traveled on his 3-pt shot that was the game winner - he took 3 steps and then jumped. Reminded me of the GT-FSU game a few years back where the guard for FSU traveled before taking the game winning three.

 

[orientalnc]

I do not have a problem with the level of violations and fouls being called, but the inconsistency gets to me. I want the guys to play the game and the officials to keep it fair. The loose ball situation is not that difficult. If a player does not have control of the ball, anyone can make a play for it. As long as the player is playing the ball and not the opponent, contact on the floor is OK.

 

[Peacone36]

I do not have a problem with the level of violations and fouls being called, but the inconsistency gets to me. I want the guys to play the game and the officials to keep it fair. The loose ball situation is not that difficult. If a player does not have control of the ball, anyone can make a play for it. As long as the player is playing the ball and not the opponent, contact on the floor is OK.

The amount of fouls being called everywhere else in the country seems kind of crazy high. Not sure how it’s trending. I think this hurts the ACC in the tournament because the games are called far tighter than they are in our conference. I agree the consistency or lack there of in the ACC is ridiculous especially when you watch UVA play and then watch everyone else. I’ve said it all year, Virginia is playing football out there.

 

[kg01]

The amount of fouls being called everywhere else in the country seems kind of crazy high. Not sure how it’s trending. I think this hurts the ACC in the tournament because the games are called far tighter than they are in our conference. I agree the consistency or lack there of in the ACC is ridiculous especially when you watch UVA play and then watch everyone else. I’ve said it all year, Virginia is playing football out there.

Preach, peac (... Preachone36?)

Actually, for the benefit of MichaelStrahan and others who chide my hatred for UVA's style of "defense", CPast ranted about the lack of freedom of movement the ACC promised to make a point of emphasis. He said last year it was kinda there but this year it's non-existent.

Of course, since we're losing, folks will view it as him complaining. However, the reality is as peac suggested, the overly-physical nature with which ACC teams are allowed to play in-conference could be a tremendous detriment in tournament play.

 

[YlJacket]

The old Big East was a wonderful thing

 

[KeystoneJacket]

Can slide as far as you want with the ball. It's not a travel until you roll over.

 

[ramblinwreck1378]

if they actually called palming i'm not sure most guards could bring the ball up the court unguarded.

Also, traveling is basically not called anymore.
The finish to the UNC-Miami game last night was thrilling, though Miami should have won without the excitement given they lead most of the way. After Berry tied it with 4 seconds lieft Newton traveled on his 3-pt shot that was the game winner - he took 3 steps and then jumped. Reminded me of the GT-FSU game a few years back where the guard for FSU traveled before taking the game winning three.

You're thinking of the Michael Snaer play where he basically moonwalked back to the halfcourt line. I was reminded of the NC State buzzer beater Lacey hit against us at home after Q's missed free throw. Both horrible memories.

 

[GTbball2016]

You're thinking of the Michael Snaer play where he basically moonwalked back to the halfcourt line. I was reminded of the NC State buzzer beater Lacey hit against us at home after Q's missed free throw. Both horrible memories.

Or the great Brian Gregory fouling up 3 with like 20 secs left vs ETSU, allowing them to eventually win it at the buzzer

 

[mstranahan]

interesting... for years the standard thinking was that ACC refs called way too many fouls and that hurt us in the NCAA because ACC players weren't used to having to deal with physical defense and rebounding.

 

[Peacone36]

Can slide as far as you want with the ball. It's not a travel until you roll over.

Ok

Why isn’t a travel ever called when the player who snatches the ball while sliding turns over?

 

[okiemon]

rules you rarely see enforced any more.... traveling, palming, three seconds, T for hanging on the rim

inconsistently enforced.. pretty much everything else

Except maybe traveling. AD seems to get that call 2 or 3 times a game.

* "seems" being the operative word here. This is not a proven statement.

 

[YlJacket]

interesting... for years the standard thinking was that ACC refs called way too many fouls and that hurt us in the NCAA because ACC players weren't used to having to deal with physical defense and rebounding.

That goes back to the days when the Big East in particular and to a lesser but still significant level the Big 10 had much more physical leagues - and the referees for each of the leagues were separate and distinct groups. Big 10 refs where contracted and scheduled only by the Big 10, same for BE and ACC. No crossover so very separate and distinct styles of officiating were maintained that then got thrown in a pot during the NCAA tourney. And yes during that time the ACC was a more finesse league - though that wasn't hard to maintain given the full contact MMA style of the BE at the time.

Now the officials are shared between conferences so there are not any separate and distinct styles. And the NCAA has tried with some level of success to push for some uniformity in how the game should be called in the regular season (where they have only suggestive powers) and the NCAA tourney (where they select the ones who advance to successive rounds based on performance).

Anyway, long winded way to say any variation in "physicality" is based more on individual refs and/or how a team like UVA forces the refs to call a game.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Will be an interesting NCAA Tournament selection this year. And not just because 20 teams who should have a death penalty from cheating and paying players will still be there. Because of the parity in the ACC specifically. According to KenPom, the ACC has the teams ranked overall #1, #3, #8, #18, #31, #32, #34, #35, #36, and #39. That's right, 10 teams in the top 39. There is NO WAY a team ranked #39 can't make the top 64 if they truly are selecting the best teams.

So lets go in reverse, and you'll see what I mean:
#39, NC State, 10-6 in the ACC, 20-9 overall.
#36, Florida State, 8-9 in the ACC, 19-10 overall. They finish home versus BC, so they'll probably be 9-9 and 20-10.
#35, Miami, 10-7 in the ACC, 21-8 overall.
#34, Louisville, 9-7 in the ACC, 19-10 overall.
#32, Virginia Tech, 10-7 in the ACC, 21-9 overall.
#31, Notre Dame, 8-9 in the ACC, 18-12 overall. Especially given their injuries, that's an impressive record. They finish @UVa, so they'll probably be 8-10, 18-13. This is probably the easiest team to take out of the bubble conversation based on record, but would they really take FIVE teams from the ACC with worse KenPom ratings?

Now of couse nearly all of these teams were mentioned in the FBI investigation in addition to Duke, North Carolina, and Clemson, but nevermind all that, LOL.

 

[Peacone36]

Will be an interesting NCAA Tournament selection this year. And not just because 20 teams who should have a death penalty from cheating and paying players will still be there. Because of the parity in the ACC specifically. According to KenPom, the ACC has the teams ranked overall #1, #3, #8, #18, #31, #32, #34, #35, #36, and #39. That's right, 10 teams in the top 39. There is NO WAY a team ranked #39 can't make the top 64 if they truly are selecting the best teams.

So lets go in reverse, and you'll see what I mean:
#39, NC State, 10-6 in the ACC, 20-9 overall.
#36, Florida State, 8-9 in the ACC, 19-10 overall. They finish home versus BC, so they'll probably be 9-9 and 20-10.
#35, Miami, 10-7 in the ACC, 21-8 overall.
#34, Louisville, 9-7 in the ACC, 19-10 overall.
#32, Virginia Tech, 10-7 in the ACC, 21-9 overall.
#31, Notre Dame, 8-9 in the ACC, 18-12 overall. Especially given their injuries, that's an impressive record. They finish @UVa, so they'll probably be 8-10, 18-13. This is probably the easiest team to take out of the bubble conversation based on record, but would they really take FIVE teams from the ACC with worse KenPom ratings?

Now of couse nearly all of these teams were mentioned in the FBI investigation in addition to Duke, North Carolina, and Clemson, but nevermind all that, LOL.

Selection committee isn’t using KenPom specifically though so while those teams look good on that metric it may not matter.

 

[YlJacket]

Will be an interesting NCAA Tournament selection this year. And not just because 20 teams who should have a death penalty from cheating and paying players will still be there. Because of the parity in the ACC specifically. According to KenPom, the ACC has the teams ranked overall #1, #3, #8, #18, #31, #32, #34, #35, #36, and #39. That's right, 10 teams in the top 39. There is NO WAY a team ranked #39 can't make the top 64 if they truly are selecting the best teams.

So lets go in reverse, and you'll see what I mean:
#39, NC State, 10-6 in the ACC, 20-9 overall.
#36, Florida State, 8-9 in the ACC, 19-10 overall. They finish home versus BC, so they'll probably be 9-9 and 20-10.
#35, Miami, 10-7 in the ACC, 21-8 overall.
#34, Louisville, 9-7 in the ACC, 19-10 overall.
#32, Virginia Tech, 10-7 in the ACC, 21-9 overall.
#31, Notre Dame, 8-9 in the ACC, 18-12 overall. Especially given their injuries, that's an impressive record. They finish @UVa, so they'll probably be 8-10, 18-13. This is probably the easiest team to take out of the bubble conversation based on record, but would they really take FIVE teams from the ACC with worse KenPom ratings?

Now of couse nearly all of these teams were mentioned in the FBI investigation in addition to Duke, North Carolina, and Clemson, but nevermind all that, LOL.

One little detail you left out - the tourney doesn't select the best 64 teams. Never has. 32 teams are conference champions leaving 36 at large teams (yes that is 68 teams selected with play in games). So a fair number of the conference champions will be in the top 36 so the number goes a lot deeper than 36 for at large and I expect 36 on Ken Pom is probably OK - but it isn't as cut and dried as you let it out here.