ACC Coaches Anonymously Talk about Conference Foes

[Heisman's Ghost]

If you look at that list by how I've defined it (materially better than us is > 0.15 stars/recruit), North Carolina is not one of them. Its Clemson, Florida State, Miami. That's it. Then there is another group of teams who usually do rate better than us, but by pretty small margin, like 0.1 to 0.15. That's Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, and Virginia...although they rotate in and out of there from year to year.

For some time now, the top 3 in recruiting has been Clemson, FSU, and Miami. Let me tell you though, Miami and FSU are places that four and five stars go to die. Both of them get less out of their talent than anyone else in the ACC. I don't pretend to know why that is but the Reverend would get these great players at Miami and invariably they would fold like a cheap suit. Personally, I see no reason why we cannot come to own the Coastal in a few years. It will just be a question of beating Miami and hoping Virginia Tech continues to track downward without UNC or UVA catching fire.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I am in no way saying that our players are not talented. I am saying that we have the wrong kind of talent on our team. Running a 4x100m race with marathoners is a guaranteed loss. Asking sprinters to run a marathon is equally foolish. Both are talented, but fit their races. Our QBs and OL were recruited to a specific system, which we no longer run. Our QBs were largely passed over by other P5 schools as QBs. Our WRs were largely passed over as well. Same with our BBs. We have talent, but ask yourself this: If CGC had been here the last 5 years, how many of our current players would honestly be on the team right now? Maybe a handful. I have no doubt they are talented, and no doubt they will give their all, and I'll be in the stands cheering for them, but that doesn't mean I can't be realistic and see that we might very easily struggle with the transition this year.

Any team that passed over Jordan Yates missed out on a hell of a player as did those who bypassed James. I would not trade them for anyone else. Don't know the exact recruiting ratings and what not, don't care , they are ball players and that's good enough for me.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I think our success, or lack of it, will mainly come down to injuries... as has been the case most years I can remember. Depth has always been an issue. A key loss or multiple losses can kill our season.

On the other hand, if we manage to stay healthy... who knows... we could be pretty good.

 

[knoxjacket]

A couple things:

1) We were offering the same guys everyone else was. We just weren’t getting them. Look at the list of offers we sent out.

2) CPJ was an offensive genius. Probably the second greatest offensive mind behind Friedgen we’ve ever had. His unique scheme covered up gaping talent deficiencies to allow us to even be average with substandard talent. Unless Patenaude surprises, we don’t have that anymore. This will hurt (hopefully temporarily or Collins isn’t the man for the job).

3) the aforementioned lack of pass rush is one of the best indicators of a talent discrepancy. We simply were not better than our opponents in one on one situations. We couldn’t beat our opponents up front on the DL, frequently got dominated up front so bad that other teams out averaged our vaunted rushing attack on the ground, couldn’t pass block (even 5 on 3), couldn’t generate separation on obvious passing downs, couldn’t defend the pass with or without a 10 yard cushion.

 

[slugboy]

IMO, this is the oversimplification. There's scheme change, and then theirs offensive philosophy change. CPJ spoiled us. He managed to make the transition seamlessly when everyone expected a rebuild. He was also gifted one of the best recruiting classes GT has ever had to do it with.

(This first paragraph is where I get fixated on a minor thing) He did on offense. Defense had slipped the year before, and declined that year too. There was lots of defensive talent on that team. It’s tempting to say “we had a great defense, we had Derrick Morgan”, but with the talent we had on that side of the ball, we should have been better. The jump in offensive efficiency covered up the defensive decline for a while.

(Starting at second paragraph is where I pick up on the main point). Collins wasn’t gifted with the recruiting classes that CPJ was. However, through a combination of factors, defense and special teams have underperformed their talent levels for the last 10 years. Most of the forecasting for us assumes that our defense and special teams will operate at the same level or worse than last year. It’s possible that they both improve significantly; possibly as much as the offense did in 2008 (admittedly, that’s a long shot). Now, defensive and special teams improvements may not be enough to make up for the production we’ve lost, but maybe it gets us to 6 wins.

The rules have favored offense for a while. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. Last year had some bad luck (USF), but good luck too (Miami, UVA).

2020 is a gauntlet, but I think we’ll be a better team by then. We could improve a good bit in the next two years and not see it all reflected in the win/loss record

So, I see a lot of reasons we could be underestimated. But we did, relative to our opponents, lose a ton of offensive and defensive production off a middling team, and can understand why analysts think we’ll have a poor year. I think the truth is somewhere between the forecasts of three wins and the average of the last few years.

If we go bowling, it’s a testament to the players and the staff


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[Augusta_Jacket]

Any team that passed over Jordan Yates missed out on a hell of a player as did those who bypassed James. I would not trade them for anyone else. Don't know the exact recruiting ratings and what not, don't care , they are ball players and that's good enough for me.

No one bypassed James. He had legitimate P5 offers, including some SEC schools. He just had one other offer to play QB. He was rated as an ATH, not a QB.

Yates was the true steal. He had not a single P5 offer except GT. He spent the entirety of his recruit career mired in 3* purgatory, and only CPJ saw him for what he was. Shortly after his run through the state playoffs, Rivals bumped him to 4* on their final rankings revision. While I am excited about CGC and the new offense, part of me wishes CPJ had stayed a few more years to see what he could have done with Yates. JeT showed what a true dual threat QB could do in our system, and Yates IMO is a better passer than JeT, and no slouch as a runner. Why other schools passed on Yates I don't know. I put it down to being offered as QB by GT. Once CPJ offered and he committed, maybe other schools thought of him as more a TO type? Who knows, either way big time get for CPJ and major kudos to CGC for keeping him committed. He is probably the starter in 2020 or 2021.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Good observations although it was not long ago that Virginia Tech and UNC were hauling in exceptionally good recruiting classes but those days may be over for the present

UNC is currently ahead of us in recruiting. Those fake classes are appealing...

VT is an interesting case study. I think it's safe to assume that VT will not finish 75th in the recruiting rankings this year. It is highly possible, and even likely, that they will finish somewhere in the 40's. While that would be a disappointment for them, it wouldn't be unusual. They typically finish in the top 25 or so, but several times have dipped into the 40s. The last dip to 49 came right after the Beamer retirement. I am not sure VT under Fuentes will ever reclaim the Beamer glory, but I am also not sold that they will fall off the map either. VT is still a strong brand in VA and the mid-Atlantic. For me, I'll have to see a couple of years of a downward trend to make any strong claim about the direction of their program. If Fuente rights the ship this year, I could see them regaining a head of steam and climbing back into the drivers seat in the Coastal for a couple of years.

 

[GTRX7]

For the last 5 years, per 247, we have ranked 8, 11, 9, 10, and 9th in the ACC in recruiting. (8, 13, 8, 9, 8 per Rivals) We are in the bottom half to bottom third of the ACC in recruiting and now playing the same scheme as the other schools who have, for the most part, recruited better than us.

This year so far we are 5th, and there is good reason to believe we can stay there and improve that position over the next few years.

True, although most of our recruits were not offered byu other P5 schools to play in the scheme we are now running. That's why I think this rebuild will be more painful than we want to admit.

I would offer a few responses to the posts above. First, like bwelbo stated, those class rankings take into account size, which can often be misleading when comparing current talent. Second, we were voted by the media as either 13th or 14th in the conference this year. So, even given your rankings of 8, 13, 8, 9, and 8, we should still be expected to have more talent than 4 teams ranked ahead of us. Finally, aside from QB, all of our recruits were ranked and offered by other schools for exactly the same positions they are currently playing. It is not like our BBacks were ranked and recruited as kickers in other systems.

And I would dare say that I might take this group of QBs (Johnson, Oliver, Graham, Yates) over the QBs we had when CPJ came on board if we are playing in a traditional offense (Nesbitt, Shaw, Booker, Dykes). Nesbitt turned out to be an amazing legend beast for us in the option, but I honestly don't have much faith that he would have been in CGC's system.

 

[takethepoints]

Good observations although it was not long ago that Virginia Tech and UNC were hauling in exceptionally good recruiting classes but those days may be over for the present. The rest of them we can pretty much stand toe to toe with and it will not be long before all of them except maybe Miami and Clemson will be eating our dust in recruiting. Duke, Wake Forest, UNC, UVA, and Virginia Tech are going to find the metro Atlanta happy hunting grounds a thing of the past but they will be welcome to any leftovers we may wish to let them have.

Such confidence! Personally, I'd wait for about 3 years before I made any such blanket statement.

Hope you are right, of course, but I can't be certain at this point.

(NB: in 2019 VT had 7 4 star recruits and UNC had 4. It might be a leetle early to write them off.)

 

[ncjacket79]

I would offer a few responses to the posts above. First, like bwelbo stated, those class rankings take into account size, which can often be misleading when comparing current talent. Second, we were voted by the media as either 13th or 14th in the conference this year. So, even given your rankings of 8, 13, 8, 9, and 8, we should still be expected to have more talent than 4 teams ranked ahead of us. Finally, aside from QB, all of our recruits were ranked and offered by other schools for exactly the same positions they are currently playing. It is not like our BBacks were ranked and recruited as kickers in other systems.

And I would dare say that I might take this group of QBs (Johnson, Oliver, Graham, Yates) over the QBs we had when CPJ came on board if we are playing in a traditional offense (Nesbitt, Shaw, Booker, Dykes). Nesbitt turned out to be an amazing legend beast for us in the option, but I honestly don't have much faith that he would have been in CGC's system.

Look at the OL and DL. Those are the two position groups that matter most and are where we seemed to mainly get kids with few P5 offers. It really doesn’t matter how good the skill position guys are if you get beat in the trenches. Not saying we will this year but that is where my main concern is.

 

[takethepoints]

Why other schools passed on Yates I don't know..

Height. For a shotgun QB he's too short.

Paul wanted him because he's actually Ricky Dobbs. He calls himself Jordan Yates, but Paul knew better.

And, yes, he would have been murder in the spread option. We'll have to see in the straight shotgun we are now running.

 

[Jmonty71]

Athlon compiles anonymous quotes from ACC coaches about other teams. Keep in mind that "coach" is a pretty broad term and Athlon can decide which comments to include to paint certain pictures. Still interesting though.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/acc-coaches-talk-anonymously-about-conference-foes-2019

I question whether it was coaches or just reporter trying to stir a pot???

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Such confidence! Personally, I'd wait for about 3 years before I made any such blanket statement.

Hope you are right, of course, but I can't be certain at this point.

(NB: in 2019 VT had 7 4 star recruits and UNC had 4. It might be a leetle early to write them off.)

True, they always seem to get good players. UNC does less with more talent than anyone this side of Miami or FSU. Coach Beamer used to get about all there was to get from his players but now the Hokies are trending down. You are correct that it will take three years to turn this bus around but sealing off metro Atlanta from some of those Tobacco Road thieves should not take that long. The hard part will be recruiting and developing both lines but we have good coaches who are committed to player development it will just take time.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I question whether it was coaches or just reporter trying to stir a pot???

They have done this for years. It could be a SID tasked to respond by the head coach, an assistant who is receiving some kind of under the table cash from the magazine and anonymity or it could just be the reporter making up stuff. Sounds like what an assistant coach would say but who knows. Interesting concept anyway. I seriously doubt a head coach or even a coordinator would waste their time with this sort of thing but an assistant might.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

No one bypassed James. He had legitimate P5 offers, including some SEC schools. He just had one other offer to play QB. He was rated as an ATH, not a QB.

Yates was the true steal. He had not a single P5 offer except GT. He spent the entirety of his recruit career mired in 3* purgatory, and only CPJ saw him for what he was. Shortly after his run through the state playoffs, Rivals bumped him to 4* on their final rankings revision. While I am excited about CGC and the new offense, part of me wishes CPJ had stayed a few more years to see what he could have done with Yates. JeT showed what a true dual threat QB could do in our system, and Yates IMO is a better passer than JeT, and no slouch as a runner. Why other schools passed on Yates I don't know. I put it down to being offered as QB by GT. Once CPJ offered and he committed, maybe other schools thought of him as more a TO type? Who knows, either way big time get for CPJ and major kudos to CGC for keeping him committed. He is probably the starter in 2020 or 2021.

You are correct in your assessments of both but anyone who saw Yates will that team to a state championship would not label him a steal. He has that certain something about him that makes the other guys play their best. Anyone sleeping on either of them will regret it. I am glad we have both of them and their day will come perhaps sooner than some people think.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

UNC is currently ahead of us in recruiting. Those fake classes are appealing...

VT is an interesting case study. I think it's safe to assume that VT will not finish 75th in the recruiting rankings this year. It is highly possible, and even likely, that they will finish somewhere in the 40's. While that would be a disappointment for them, it wouldn't be unusual. They typically finish in the top 25 or so, but several times have dipped into the 40s. The last dip to 49 came right after the Beamer retirement. I am not sure VT under Fuentes will ever reclaim the Beamer glory, but I am also not sold that they will fall off the map either. VT is still a strong brand in VA and the mid-Atlantic. For me, I'll have to see a couple of years of a downward trend to make any strong claim about the direction of their program. If Fuente rights the ship this year, I could see them regaining a head of steam and climbing back into the drivers seat in the Coastal for a couple of years.

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"UNC is currently ahead of us in recruiting" They always are but somehow we end up beating them most of the time. Can't imagine why that would be the case.

 

[slugboy]

I would offer a few responses to the posts above. First, like bwelbo stated, those class rankings take into account size, which can often be misleading when comparing current talent.

Every school has the same caps—85 scholarship players and 25 per year. Class size evens out for everyone over 4 or 10 years. Class size could depress our class ranking in the occasional year, but if we’re ranked in the bottom quarter one year, you’d expect us to be ranked in the top half the next with a big class.

Year in, year out, we’ve been in the bottom half or even lower ranked in the ACC.

If it was one year, I’d accept that argument.


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[Augusta_Jacket]

Every school has the same caps—85 scholarship players and 25 per year. Class size evens out for everyone over 4 or 10 years. Class size could depress our class ranking in the occasional year, but if we’re ranked in the bottom quarter one year, you’d expect us to be ranked in the top half the next with a big class.

Year in, year out, we’ve been in the bottom half or even lower ranked in the ACC.

If it was one year, I’d accept that argument.


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What you are not accounting for is that:

1. We do not tend to lose players early to the NFL Draft, &
2. We have not historically processed players at the same rates many of these schools who "recruit well" do.

 

[alentrekin]

I was responding more to your statement "They are peaking with resources allocated." I don't know that they are, and I am not sure we are in a position to assume that Duke is topped out in football.

I think we agree. Our difference in opinion may just be that I assume Duke will not surpass their current level of success without significantly more resources -- money and fan support -- since my experience with Duke alums has been that they do not care about football.

 

[slugboy]

What you are not accounting for is that:

1. We do not tend to lose players early to the NFL Draft, &
2. We have not historically processed players at the same rates many of these schools who "recruit well" do.

1. We’ve lost linemen and others early due to graduation. Also, not losing players to the NFL argues that the other teams have been out-recruiting us

2. I know Alabama processes a lot of players. I hadn’t heard of that so much at Clemson or Miami. Is that enough of a factor at UNC or NCST to create an illusion of better recruiting?

We’re talking about ACC recruiting—Duke, UNC, VT, Pitt, etc. Do 1 and 2 make that much difference with those schools?

If it was a one-off comparison against FSU, I could see that


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