ACC Bowl Discussion

[Techcaster572]

For the "bowls don't matter crowd" how do explain 1 - 9 or 13 - 28 statistic in @FredJacket's post above? Is this merely random in your eyes? Is the ACC somehow more affected by players entering the portal or sitting out than the other conferences. These (imo) seem like variables that should be evenly distributed enough amongst the conferences to allow for something closer to a .500 record. Maybe 1 bowl season is too small a sample size. But I am not one who thinks this can be merely dismissed as random chance.

Do you really think Miami cared to beat Iowa State?
Even after the cyclones took the lead with 0:56 left in the game needing a fg, the cameraman panned to Cam to see if he was warming up and would come in for the last drive. Not because he was hurt but because he didn't WANT to get hurt and affect his NFL future in the 2nd half of a game Miami led by 10. Miami proved they were better than Iowa State with Cam Ward playing and yet the media and fans will chalk it up that the acc sucks and can't win a bowl game.

NC State had a chance to win against the pirates but similar to Clemson against USC, they both threw an int deep in the opponent's territory to lose. Does that make the Pirates and Gamecocks superior. No actually it does not.
Uga beat us; however, we kicked their butt up and down the field in their house. Sec fans will chant the acc sucks but anyone who watched this game objectively knows tech got screwed and whipped the butts of the best team in the SEC!

Nebraska hasn't had a winning season in 8 years. They ABSOLUTELY wanted to be there. BC's all everything QB castellanos hit the portal to Fsu along with many other portal entries. Nebraska similar to Vandy had no starters hit the portal and wanted to be there.

I don't care what anyone says...Tech had Singleton, Lockett, Robinson, and Height ALL hit the portal. BIg time contributors. Plus Kyle Efford didn't play.
Vandy lost to ga state. Tech beat ga state. Yes, I know they beat Bama and competed with Tx; however, I think if you fix the portal Tech wins this game 7 out of 10 times imo.

UNC was down to their 5th string QB and their future coach wasn't coaching the game as they fired their head coach at the end of the year.

Pitt and Toledo went to 6 overtimes

Btw the Secheat conference is 4-3. Not exactly lighting up the world

The biggest perception is smu getting run by Penn State but Tennessee lost by a larger margin to OSU and no one moans and whines that the SEC sucks but look at SMU..the acc sucks. blah blah blah.

I'll also point out that Clemson had the lead down to 7 against Texas in their house late in the 4th quarter.

Stop acting like the acc sucks without factoring in the portal, the meaningless nature of bowl season, and other factors. If you want to tell me that the portal is irrelevant, army's opponent has to bow out due to nearly the whole team hitting the portal when their coach was let go and army gets a 5-7 team that they beat in the independence bowl. Tell me individual circumstances, matchups, and the portal season doesn't matter.

Outside of the smu blowout, every game was competitive.

All this does is feed into the narrative the media wants to get across along with Sankey and the Big integer lackeys.

And btw...the games and results do matter because that will be the perception going into 2025 and will likely cost the acc an extra bid next year but for the "acc sucks" crowd without looking into each and every matchup with no analysis serves no purpose except to just bash the acc. We have enough media willing to do that without facts.

 

[forensicbuzz]

For the "bowls don't matter crowd" how do explain 1 - 9 or 13 - 28 statistic in @FredJacket's post above? Is this merely random in your eyes? Is the ACC somehow more affected by players entering the portal or sitting out than the other conferences. These (imo) seem like variables that should be evenly distributed enough amongst the conferences to allow for something closer to a .500 record. Maybe 1 bowl season is too small a sample size. But I am not one who thinks this can be merely dismissed as random chance.

I’m not defending the play. I’m saying the teams aren’t the same, so match-ups aren’t what they were intended to be. Just one for instance was what Tech lost versus what Vandy lost. Not the difference in the game, but not having Singleton, Height, and Seymore affected both sides of the ball.

 

[stinger78]

For the "bowls don't matter crowd" how do explain 1 - 9 or 13 - 28 statistic in @FredJacket's post above? Is this merely random in your eyes? Is the ACC somehow more affected by players entering the portal or sitting out than the other conferences. These (imo) seem like variables that should be evenly distributed enough amongst the conferences to allow for something closer to a .500 record. Maybe 1 bowl season is too small a sample size. But I am not one who thinks this can be merely dismissed as random chance.

You don’t have to explain it.

UGAg is 1-9 against Bama in their last 10 games. Is UGAg an inferior team even though many of those games were extremely competitive?

 

[4shotB]

Stop acting like the acc sucks without factoring in the portal, the meaningless nature of bowl season, and other factors. If you want to tell me that the portal is irrelevant, army's opponent has to bow out due to nearly the whole team hitting the portal when their coach was let go and army gets a 5-7 team that they beat in the independence bowl. Tell me individual circumstances, matchups, and the portal season doesn't matter.

I am not dismissing them. However, I don't believe they hit the ACC teams worse than the others. Shouldn't these variables balance out so that leagues hit much closer to .500?

 

[4shotB]

You don’t have to explain it.

UGAg is 1-9 against Bama in their last 10 games. Is UGAg an inferior team even though many of those games were extremely competitive?

Again, I do think there is more to the story in this series than pure randomness. I believe in root causes, not luck.

 

[stinger78]

Again, I do think there is more to the story in this series than pure randomness. I believe in root causes, not luck.

What? Is UGAg horribly inferior to Alabama due to the badly warped results the last 15 years or so (1-9)?
Obviously not. Final score is only one metric to determine competitiveness. When we reduce that determination to one metric, we practice reductionism that produces goofy results.

 

[awbuzz]

That perennial bottom feeder beat Alabama and lost to Texas and Mizzou by 3. They finished tied with Arkansas, one game behind Florida in the SECheat. They were no doormat.
Furthermore, 5 of our 9 bowl losses were by 1 score. Very competitive games.

People don't want facts that don't support their narrative.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Again, I do think there is more to the story in this series than pure randomness. I believe in root causes, not luck.

Pretty small population. But whatever that “more” is, it isn’t that the ACC teams suck.

 

[WreckinGT]

This is pretty wild. Abysmal showing this year.

 

[4shotB]

Pretty small population. But whatever that “more” is, it isn’t that the ACC teams suck.

what about the 13 - 28 sample size? I would say that is significant.

 

[CEB]

For the "bowls don't matter crowd" how do explain 1 - 9 or 13 - 28 statistic in @FredJacket's post above? Is this merely random in your eyes? Is the ACC somehow more affected by players entering the portal or sitting out than the other conferences. These (imo) seem like variables that should be evenly distributed enough amongst the conferences to allow for something closer to a .500 record. Maybe 1 bowl season is too small a sample size. But I am not one who thinks this can be merely dismissed as random chance.

The portal hasn’t been around long enough to explain some of the records posted, but I do believe the portal has some impact and will likely have more impact going forward.
Generally speaking, teams that AREN’T members of BIG / SEC are going to lose more CONTRIBUTORS to the portal during bowl season.
Mid to low level ACC and Big 12 as well as most upper G5 teams are going to suffer far more impactful attrition than the big schools with big NIL budgets.

I’ll add that bowls have been diminishing for a while. Even though the vast majority have always been “exhibitions” in nature (only 2-3 games annually included a potential MNC contender), when the players and programs were still invested, and the bowls were somewhat exclusive, the games were still meaningful.
The explosion in number of bowls started the slide. Opt outs gave it momentum. The 4-team playoff slammed the accelerator. The combination of transfer portal, NIL and a 12-team playoff …

 

[4shotB]

What? Is UGAg horribly inferior to Alabama due to the badly warped results the last 15 years or so (1-9)?
Obviously not. Final score is only one metric to determine competitiveness. When we reduce that determination to one metric, we practice reductionism that produces goofy results.

There are other metrics that support the argument that Uga is an equivalent program to UA overall. However, in head to head matches, the results are not random. similar to our results against Uga. Or UNC for that matter.

 

[stinger78]

There are other metrics that support the argument that Uga is an equivalent program to UA overall. However, in head to head matches, the results are not random. similar to our results against Uga. Or UNC for that matter.

Yes, I would say there is a mental metric that is the most critical, and that it also affects Tech/UGAg. There is also a depth metric. GT falls short in both vis. uGAg. uGAg falls short in the mental metric vis. Bama. Both series are quite competitive, though, most years.

 

[WreckinGT]

Also, my favorite ongoing stat about Miami and bowl games. They have less bowl wins since 2008 than Bobby Bowden who retired in 2009 and passed away a few years ago.

 

[slugboy]

Despite FSU and Clemson’s lawsuits, the ACC teams are all in the same boat together. Between this year’s football and basketball, the conference needs to turn around their product on the field and their brand.

If FSU and Clemson want to continue their lawsuits, that’s one thing. While they’re here, they need to be all in on improving the overall quality of the conference, or no one will want them (maybe B12).

 

[FredJacket]

There are a million (maybe literally) ways to attempt to break it down. These conferences are a collection of 14-18 teams... each its own independent organization/football team. Different funding. Different priorities. Different enough in many significant ways to create a problem right out of the gate when attempting to treat them & analyze them [collectively] as a conference compared to other conferences.

Results matter... but it doesn't take long when factoring in all the other metrics on racking & stacking teams... before results can matter very little depending on what you choose to ignore or minimize (& vice versa).

Ultimately... we're all arguing over competing agendas. ... not competing facts (those exist... they're out there).

If you want the ACC to be elevated... that's easy. Say Ga Tech shoulda beat UGA. Say Miami is great when they "cared" before losing. Say SMU won 11 games. It's also pretty easy to make case the ACC loses more than than win when playing other P4 conference teams.

I have always bristled at the this conference is better than that one discussion. I just don't get it... well I get it... I just can't get into it. I don't like MOST ACC teams. I just don't. I can't & won't pull for over half of them no matter what. Glad Miami & UNC lost.

 

[Techcaster572]

Personally, the season is over, and I could care less about watching the CFP playoffs, duke vs ole miss, or any other games. I can't stand the narrative of conference inferiority vs superiority argument.

My team's season is over and will begin next August when I get engaged again even though the acc bowl season continues. As far as football goes, I'll watch the falcons today to see if they can make the playoffs.

For me, Tech baseball is up next, and I'll enjoy my season tickets with my son.

 

[billga99]

Wow you have to go back to 2017 to find a good bowl season for the ACC (8-3). 5-6, 5-4, 2-4, 0-6 etc. have been our bowl results. So this is not a new phenomenon. Use to be we could lean on great basketball as a conference to offset this but not anymore. The league needs to drastically improve to not be relegated to a Group of 5 like conference. It also makes me wonder why the SEC or Big 10 has any real desire to pull in an ACC school.

 

[Southern psu fan]

With the way the bowls are today, with the Portal and the opt-outs, these games are not being played by the same teams that played the regular season. They can still be entertaining, but they have truly reverted back to exhibition games. They hold no meaning with regards to how good a team is or how deep a conference is. I say this if the ACC is 1-9 or 9-1.

I know but man I still want to win lol

 

[4shotB]

Personally, the season is over, and I could care less about watching the CFP playoffs, duke vs ole miss, or any other games. I can't stand the narrative of conference inferiority vs superiority argument.

My team's season is over and will begin next August when I get engaged again even though the acc bowl season continues. As far as football goes, I'll watch the falcons today to see if they can make the playoffs.

For me, Tech baseball is up next, and I'll enjoy my season tickets with my son.

We as fans have every right to ignore or dismiss things or whistle our way past the graveyard. However, the evolution towards college football being a bottom line, multi-million (billion?) dollar business has grown exponentially. I would expect the leaders of our conference to behave accordingly and take a more structured problem solving and root cause analysis to these issues.

Of course some of you will point out that if we had such leadership in the first place, the conference would not be in the shape it is now. I would tend to agree with that opinion fwiw.